Engine will not turn

[WhiskeyTeef]

New to the forum and I have gained a lot of knowledge so far, so thank you.

Background: July 2022 I bought a 1986 M1009 6.2 turbo 24 v for my son. She was running strong.
Problem: One day my son approached me and said that it was turning over slow and would not start. SoCal weather, winter mid 50s. I went out and it was slow cranking and ultimately stopped. Starter would engage the flywheel but wouldn't turn the motor over. I asked my son when the last time he checked the oil, to my surprise it was super low. I drained the oil and maybe 1.5 to 2 quarts came out, not good!!! Filled it with the correct amount of oil. No luck. Swapped out starter and batteries. Still, starter engaged strong to the flywheel, but wouldn't turn the engine. Turned the motor with a breaker bar to see if she was seized. It wasn't but it was hard to turn. I was able to turn it at the flywheel as well, but again difficult to rotate. My personal opinion, my son ran it to nearly a bone dry situation.
Recommendations: Minus taking off the top end and adding penetrating oil to the top of the heads, does anybody else have recommendations?

 

[Guyfang]

Whiskey, Please write your State you live in, in the location block IAW the forum rules. Thanks.

 

[chucky]

Hes from CALI !!!

 

[Guyfang]

Actually, I knew that. Been there back in the 60's. I lived not far away, maybe 50-60 miles? And certainly hitched through there too, now that I think about it.

 

[nyoffroad]

New to the forum and I have gained a lot of knowledge so far, so thank you.

Background: July 2022 I bought a 1986 M1009 6.2 turbo 24 v for my son. She was running strong.
Problem: One day my son approached me and said that it was turning over slow and would not start. SoCal weather, winter mid 50s. I went out and it was slow cranking and ultimately stopped. Starter would engage the flywheel but wouldn't turn the motor over. I asked my son when the last time he checked the oil, to my surprise it was super low. I drained the oil and maybe 1.5 to 2 quarts came out, not good!!! Filled it with the correct amount of oil. No luck. Swapped out starter and batteries. Still, starter engaged strong to the flywheel, but wouldn't turn the engine. Turned the motor with a breaker bar to see if she was seized. It wasn't but it was hard to turn. I was able to turn it at the flywheel as well, but again difficult to rotate. My personal opinion, my son ran it to nearly a bone dry situation.
Recommendations: Minus taking off the top end and adding penetrating oil to the top of the heads, does anybody else have recommendations?

Dumping oil in the top end will do little to nothing. Sorry to say but it sounds like you're in for atleast a set of main and rod bearing and probably a set of rings, and that means cutting the cylinder ridge and honing. And while you're in there might as well replace the cam bearings and cam. Get the kid to help out and learn a thing or two about responsibility. Good luck.

 

[NDT]

Your 6.2 has burned up crankshaft bearings. Time for a GEP 6.5. Or an expensive rebuild of your engine.

 

[87cr250r]

Drop the oil pan.

 

[Mullaney]

New to the forum and I have gained a lot of knowledge so far, so thank you.

Background: July 2022 I bought a 1986 M1009 6.2 turbo 24 v for my son. She was running strong.
Problem: One day my son approached me and said that it was turning over slow and would not start. SoCal weather, winter mid 50s. I went out and it was slow cranking and ultimately stopped. Starter would engage the flywheel but wouldn't turn the motor over. I asked my son when the last time he checked the oil, to my surprise it was super low. I drained the oil and maybe 1.5 to 2 quarts came out, not good!!! Filled it with the correct amount of oil. No luck. Swapped out starter and batteries. Still, starter engaged strong to the flywheel, but wouldn't turn the engine. Turned the motor with a breaker bar to see if she was seized. It wasn't but it was hard to turn. I was able to turn it at the flywheel as well, but again difficult to rotate. My personal opinion, my son ran it to nearly a bone dry situation.
Recommendations: Minus taking off the top end and adding penetrating oil to the top of the heads, does anybody else have recommendations?

.
Well... It seems that Son is going to learn some lessons here. It definitely sounds like the bearings may have siezed and that definitely "ain't good". Do what you will, but kinda like @NDT and @nyoffroad suggested - this needs to be a lesson that your boy needs learns. Stay on top of it and make him do the work. Might make him a mechanic even...

You might try removing the pan like @87cr250r suggested. Three or Four cans of penetrating oil spraying the connecting rods and main bearing journals - daily for a week - or until you run out of spray oil. And then pull the glow plugs (gently) and squirt (with an oil can) about two quarts of Marvel Mystery Oil on top of the pistons. Then with a ratchet and a socket, gently try to rotate the motor by hand. Try to turn it every day, then squirt it with MMO on top and penetrating oil up from the bottom.

MY OPINION is that trying to turn the motor with the starter is just "cheating" and you will either burn up another starter motor or some wiring... And it needs to be hard work. You might bring it back from the dead. Maybe.

 

[WhiskeyTeef]

All great suggestions and yea my son is gonna be busting his knuckles. Mullaney, I’m gonna take your suggestions and run with it. Penetrating oil is my first COA. After that, sell it as is or motor swap. I hope she comes back to life. . I’ll update when complete.

 

[Mullaney]

All great suggestions and yea my son is gonna be busting his knuckles. Mullaney, I’m gonna take your suggestions and run with it. Penetrating oil is my first COA. After that, sell it as is or motor swap. I hope she comes back to life. . I’ll update when complete.

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Definitely would like to see updates as your son does the work.

.

 

[Buck69]

Were you able to rotate the engine a couple turns or did it possibly make a hard stop while doing so?
If the turbo failed and dumped the oil into the intake, it would likely hydraulic a cylinder. Would not be a tough repair if you happen to be that lucky.

 

[WhiskeyTeef]

Were you able to rotate the engine a couple turns or did it possibly make a hard stop while doing so?
If the turbo failed and dumped the oil into the intake, it would likely hydraulic a cylinder. Would not be a tough repair if you happen to be that lucky.

Yes, I have been able to rotate the engine with a breaker bar from the crank bolt and turn it with 2 hands from the flywheel. I'd say I have probably rotated it about 10 full turns on the fly wheel.

 

[WhiskeyTeef]

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Definitely would like to see updates as your son does the work.

.

Unsure what updates you want to see other than if it worked or not. Maybe pictures of him removing and replacing 8 glow plugs and an oil pan while putting MMO in areas you recommended?

 

[Mullaney]

Unsure what updates you want to see other than if it worked or not. Maybe pictures of him removing and replacing 8 glow plugs and an oil pan while putting MMO in areas you recommended?

.
Sounds like a good plan to me. Thinking about it... The MMO could end up running out past the rings and onto the ground if they have seized to the pistons. It will take longer to do it in two stages if the pan stays on for the MMO treatment and then remove the pan and spray penetrating oil on the journals and connecting rods a week or so later.
.

 

[WWRD99]

Yes, I have been able to rotate the engine with a breaker bar from the crank bolt and turn it with 2 hands from the flywheel. I'd say I have probably rotated it about 10 full turns on the fly wheel.

So you can turn the engine using hands on the flywheel with no gloves? You replaced the starter? Any chance you got a 12 volt one? Where did you get it? What batteries are you using size wise....group 31s? If I could turn an engine with no gloves on a flywheel being locked up is something I wouldn't think was wrong. Make sure the bracket is on the front of the starter as well.

 

[WhiskeyTeef]

So you can turn the engine using hands on the flywheel with no gloves? You replaced the starter? Any chance you got a 12 volt one? Where did you get it? What batteries are you using size wise....group 31s? If I could turn an engine with no gloves on a flywheel being locked up is something I wouldn't think was wrong. Make sure the bracket is on the front of the starter as well.

Answering your questions. Yes I can turn with my hands but not that much before I start to wimp out (hurting). I'll put a flat head in some groves of the torque converter to turn it more easily. I did replace the starter, another 24v. Bench checked both. Obviously the newer one has a bit more torque. Batteries, I don't recall the brand put they are both 12v higher amps. Those were checked again and no issue with those. So, I never said the engine was locked. The starter(s) don't have the power to turn the stiff engine.

 

[WhiskeyTeef]

Update: Son and I took off the glow plugs and oil pan. No shaving or pieces. Drenched the underside with MMO and put about 3 oz of MMO thru each glow plug hole. Put glow plugs back on (just a couple threads). Turned it about 10 revs. Sump was sucking so thats a good sign. I may hang a small bucket under the sump so it could route MMO to places we can't get to. It seems that MMO stayed on top of all pistons. When I was turning the motor by hand, I saw MMO coming down a bit but nothing drastic. May be a sign of bad rings. My son will repeat the process tomorrow after work.

 

[WWRD99]

Answering your questions. Yes I can turn with my hands but not that much before I start to wimp out (hurting). I'll put a flat head in some groves of the torque converter to turn it more easily. I did replace the starter, another 24v. Bench checked both. Obviously the newer one has a bit more torque. Batteries, I don't recall the brand put they are both 12v higher amps. Those were checked again and no issue with those. So, I never said the engine was locked. The starter(s) don't have the power to turn the stiff engine.

Ok I was wondering how you were turning a diesel engine by hand on the flywheel!! They are tight to do that once they hit compression. I've lost a bunch of knuckle skin on flywheels in the past. Did you pull a main cap to see if there is any scoring on the bearings or main journals? Can you see scoring in the cylinders?

 

[nyoffroad]

I don't understand the MMO? Marvel mystery snake oil? If the kid did run it with 2 qts oil the damage is done and won't be fixed with any oil. I remember wayyy back in school we were told that a SBC that holds 5 qts oil when running only has about 1-2 qts in the pan, the rest is in the oil gallery under pressure or running back down to the pan. What that means is ANY time your a qt or so low on oil something somwhere in your engine is starving for oil, the damage won't show up right away but it is there and is cumulative.

 

[WhiskeyTeef]

Ok I was wondering how you were turning a diesel engine by hand on the flywheel!! They are tight to do that once they hit compression. I've lost a bunch of knuckle skin on flywheels in the past. Did you pull a main cap to see if there is any scoring on the bearings or main journals? Can you see scoring in the cylinders?

I didn’t pull the intake manifold off. Just the oil pan and GP’s.