Engine Wont Run After Setting Up For 2 YEARS.

[Loose Deuce]

this my first post in many years so here goes. My deuce has been sitting up for several years because of health problems and just plain laziness. It started but ran bad, made it about 100 feet and it shut down and cant get it to run. It will try and run when spraying Either in the Air Intake, buts that's it. I had that off road diesel that has the red die in it. primary filter was slimed up (changed to spin on filter) replace both secondary filters that looked good too. Took fuel tank off and pressure washed it out and check out the in tank fuel pump which I replaced the rubber hose on pick up to the pump too. Replace fuel lines from tank to primary filter and then to Fuel Injection Pump. I bled all the air out of lines with that bleeder valve. loosen all the (fuel injector) lines at the injectors. they were too hard to get a good check because I didn't remove the line brackets and they were too stiff to get loose enough. anyway it was showing seeping around the injector line fittings so I figure they were getting fuel but cant be positive without loosening all the lines fittings properly. Well that's about all I can do myself so far. I'm thinking there's something wrong inside my injector pump ?????????? that all I can think of so far. And the fuel I drained out looked nice and clear except for the red die.

any one knows about this sort of problem and know how to fix it ??????????????

 

[Warthog]

Pull the fuel shutoff cover on the side of the IP and make sure the lever moves freely.

 

[LiveFreeOrDieTryn2B]

Put some sea foam in the fuel tank and canisters as well.

 

[Loose Deuce]

thanks, I will check that fuel stop. and is there anything else that can get stuck on the IP ? Is there a manual that deals with fuel injection pump (not removing or installing) but some more detail problem solving or things that can be done without sending it off to get checked for $800.00


also what can you take of the IP to clean or what ever that you wont have to have an expert working on it ? it setting up like that, I would think its just something miner like something stuck in the IP. I saw several posts about the Head or something like that that could go bad ????

 

[Loose Deuce]

does that sea foam clean fairly quickly or do you have to use it for a while ? I assume that's when its running ?

 

[brianp454]

Do you get fuel if you crack the secondary filter bleed valve?

Some places will test old style injectors like these for free. You could try that also.

 

[Loose Deuce]

YES, with the in tank fuel pump on.

 

[todds112]

Could the piston in the HH be stuck? I've read about taking out the center screw and putting a dowl or something in there to see if it goes up and down while the engine is being cranked.

 

[chigger]

I doubt that there is a problem with the IP HH. Most likely the fuel is not getting to the IP because the fuel shutoff lever is stuck or a filter is clogged. The fuel shutoff can be checked in a couple minutes. If the tank is too low, you can be sucking air and not getting enough fuel pressure. If the filter is clogged, you may still get fuel, but not enough pressure. Crack loose any one of the injection lines at the injector. Spin the engine over to see if fuel is squirting out. If not, loosen one of the plastic return lines and run the tank pump to see if fuel drips out. Work back from here. See if fuel is pressurized at the HH or FDC coming from the secondary filters by cracking the line loose. If the fuel coming out is slow or doesn't seem to have much pressure, then chances are that you are sucking air or a filter is bad. You can take your fuel filter apart to see what is in there.

From memory, the fuel system flows like this: Tank pumps fuel to the primary filter located on passenger side front. Fuel exits primary and goes to a small mechanical gear pump built into the side of the IP. Fuel exits the pump and goes to the secondary filters located on driver side rear of motor. The secondary filters have a bypass valve to return fuel to the tank when filters get clogged. There is also a bleed valve there to vent air. Fuel exits the filters and goes to the fuel density compensator or directly to the HH depending on the type of IP you have. On the side of the HH that faces the radiator is the return line. there should be a tee there for tie in the return from the injectors.

 

[whatadeuce]

Chijjer, thank you for the diagnostics...

 

[whatadeuce]

I love this diagnostic because I got two deuces that wont start! Now I will try to start them

 

[rustystud]

I doubt that there is a problem with the IP HH. Most likely the fuel is not getting to the IP because the fuel shutoff lever is stuck or a filter is clogged. The fuel shutoff can be checked in a couple minutes. If the tank is too low, you can be sucking air and not getting enough fuel pressure. If the filter is clogged, you may still get fuel, but not enough pressure. Crack loose any one of the injection lines at the injector. Spin the engine over to see if fuel is squirting out. If not, loosen one of the plastic return lines and run the tank pump to see if fuel drips out. Work back from here. See if fuel is pressurized at the HH or FDC coming from the secondary filters by cracking the line loose. If the fuel coming out is slow or doesn't seem to have much pressure, then chances are that you are sucking air or a filter is bad. You can take your fuel filter apart to see what is in there.

From memory, the fuel system flows like this: Tank pumps fuel to the primary filter located on passenger side front. Fuel exits primary and goes to a small mechanical gear pump built into the side of the IP. Fuel exits the pump and goes to the secondary filters located on driver side rear of motor. The secondary filters have a bypass valve to return fuel to the tank when filters get clogged. There is also a bleed valve there to vent air. Fuel exits the filters and goes to the fuel density compensator or directly to the HH depending on the type of IP you have. On the side of the HH that faces the radiator is the return line. there should be a tee there for tie in the return from the injectors.

Actually the bypass valve is needed when fuel is shut-off to prevent excessive pressure buildup. When you shut-off the fuel ( pull the lever) the fuel is no longer going to the injectors, but the engine is still turning powering the injection pump fuel pump. If this fuel has no where to go it would cause the fuel filters to blow.

 

[whatadeuce]

Hello rustystud, And I am so stimulated by this thread, and I plan to do additional research on the Injector Pump and associated circuits so that I can troubleshot these engines. I am an HVAC man by trade, so that I am used to troubleshooting those type machines anyway

 

[Loose Deuce]

Thanks for all the Replies

 

[chigger]

FYI, here is shomething you should check.
There is an easy way to prevent run-away diesel. Make sure that the fuel shutoff is actually working to shut OFF the fuel. I do this every time I have to install an injection pump. I do this by spinning the engine over without the injection lines on and the fuel shut off pulled. There should be no fuel squirting out. With the shut off released, fuel will squirt out. In your case, you will have to crack all the injection lines loose at the injectors and look for fuel squirting out there.

The reason I do this is because there is a local guy in town that had a run-away with a fairly new multifuel that was sitting for a while. It wouldn't shut down until it seized. They shut the fuel pump off but it wouldn't stop. They had the exhaust pipe disconnected and had a huge flame shooting out of the exhaust. It never threw a rod though....

 

[phil2968]

HH plunger is stuck or the button fell off. Either way pull the HH to check.

 

[chigger]

Actually the bypass valve is needed when fuel is shut-off to prevent excessive pressure buildup. When you shut-off the fuel ( pull the lever) the fuel is no longer going to the injectors, but the engine is still turning powering the injection pump fuel pump. If this fuel has no where to go it would cause the fuel filters to blow.

Good point. There should be excess fuel returning to the tank.

 

[rustystud]

FYI, here is shomething you should check.
There is an easy way to prevent run-away diesel. Make sure that the fuel shutoff is actually working to shut OFF the fuel. I do this every time I have to install an injection pump. I do this by spinning the engine over without the injection lines on and the fuel shut off pulled. There should be no fuel squirting out. With the shut off released, fuel will squirt out. In your case, you will have to crack all the injection lines loose at the injectors and look for fuel squirting out there.

The reason I do this is because there is a local guy in town that had a run-away with a fairly new multifuel that was sitting for a while. It wouldn't shut down until it seized. They shut the fuel pump off but it wouldn't stop. They had the exhaust pipe disconnected and had a huge flame shooting out of the exhaust. It never threw a rod though....

This is a pretty good idea you have there chigger ! Most times we are in a hurry to hear the engine fire-up and don't do the proper safety checks. I know I've been guilty of that many times. Thankfully I've had only one fire on an engine and was able to put it out quickly. I had really good "Guardian Angels" !!!!

 

[Floridianson]

Myself Chigger It would just be waisting my time dropping injector lines . Myself I just drop off the shut down cover. It is only two flat head screws and from there I check to see if the fuel control assembly is operating correct. I have never taken off a injector line for anything execpt replacing it. The injectors don't need to be bleed to make them run after rebuild. The injectors don't have to be loosen or the top plug on the head to see if fuel is there if there is a no start problem. If the final filter has fuel 4 to 6 pounds of fuel pressure and you know the filter is good then the head is getting fuel the problem is in the head. You could also drop off the fuel line to the IP and if there is fuel under light pressure but no start it is a head problem ( control or button most of the time). Your friend could have prevented the runaway by just takeing off the fuel shut down cover and there he would have found a stuck control.
If some how you could over pressure the fuel system I would think the steel canisters would hold well over plastic and compression fittings.

 

[Loose Deuce]

what is involved in removing that Head thing ? will there be lots of springs and stuff fly everywhere ????? I never took one off before.