Ether Start Assist

[sandcobra164]

I searched and didn't find anything. I've had quite a few NHC 250 powered trucks in my yard but never owned one until now. I took it for a ride around the block today but it took about 30 seconds of cranking to start it. Throttle was responsive as normal once the engine was running so I'm ruling out a fuel prime issue for now. The ether bottle is missing but the system looks intact barring that. The question I have is how often do 5 ton owners have this issue. The truck starts very quickly in 70 and 80 degree weather but it was a chilly 35 or 40 this morning. I know my old Deuce would have done it with about 2 or 3 revolutions of the engine. I do plan on installing an ether bottle but don't really like using ether. I had an M923 out here that was an RRAD rebuild and it started in weather like this similar to my Deuce. My M923 only has a little over 20,000 miles on it. I know the common phrase that you can't trust the gauges as they have probably been replaced at some point. It shows no blowby out of the crankcase breather when idling and has plenty of power so I think the rings are tight.

 

[rideoffroad]

I would check the glow plug

 

[162tcat]

No glow plugs. They are a little sluggish in the cold. Diesel fuel additive and a block heater is a huge help in the winter. Or a very small shot of ether and she'll fire off.

 

[juanprado]

check and make sure all 4 bats are up to spec & hot.

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

Even when everything is functioning properly, I have heard comments on here saying that the NHC250 does not enjoy starting when it is cold out. But I agree with what 162 and juan said.

 

[lindsey97]

Use ether only when in a pinch. Check/clean your battery cable connections. Make sure you have 2 good batteries.

Every nhc250 powered 5 ton that I own has a coolant heater. I can start mine after being plugged in for 2 hours in 5 seconds of cranking or less. The only time I need my coolant heater is at 32 deg. F or below. If left on overnight it will generate enough heat to melt snow on the hood.

Also consider using a float charger overnight such as a battery tender. This will keep the batteries up, as they also don't respond well to cold. Batteries produce a slower chemical reaction when cold, and thus produce less cranking amps leading to slower harder starts. Some extremely cold environments require battery blankets and battery heaters to be reliable.

 

[162tcat]

For the NHC250 you need 4 good batteries, not 2.

 

[Monkeyboyarmy]

Anything much below 40 and they require ether. They are just low compression engines. You can check your exhaust while you are cranking it to see if you get white smoke, which means you have fuel. Nature of the beasts.

 

[MtnSnow]

For the NHC250 you need 4 good batteries, not 2.

Not quite true. I know of several owners with the nhc250 that run only two batteries here in Northern Utah and we have been in the single digits temp wise.

 

[162tcat]

Not quite true. I know of several owners with the nhc250 that run only two batteries here in Northern Utah and we have been in the single digits temp wise.

It's rough on the starter and batteries with only 2 in those cold temps. Big voltage drop cranking that cold engine over until it fires. Ether, block heater and/or 4 batteries and she will eventually fire off.

 

[my76fj40]

Or could be using 2 8d's? Use a bit of ether when in the single digits, starts in 5 seconds or so. Without it doesn't want to fire.

 

[MtnSnow]

Nope. Just good group 31 batteries.

 

[lindsey97]

For the NHC250 you need 4 good batteries, not 2.

I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly about needing 4 batteries just a few months ago. But after owning 4 of these trucks with nhc250's in them, I have come to realize that 90% of the trucks will start and be reliable with just 2 good batteries. The exception to this is northern extreme climate or east coat areas where wind chill will play a factor. And then I agree that 4 batteries are needed, especially if the truck is to be left in remote areas or backcountry.

I personally use Interstate MTP-65 x2 in my own trucks and have no issues starting them in 20 deg. F weather in Oklahoma. I do NOT use group 31 batteries in M939's because of 1) the height, too tall, 2) the crappy warranty, 3) I can remove them from my M939 in a pinch and install them in my pickup or other vehicles. I have several other machines that have been converted to MTP-65 batteries.

But you do have to use a coolant heater and I cannot stress using a heater enough. A coolant heater warm the antifreeze, which in turn warm the heads and injectors, which warms the diesel in the injectors. Warm diesel combust quicker and having new hot batteries to spin the engine fast enough to detonate the diesel adds to this equation of success.

 

[red]

Had to use some ether to get the m816 started about 2 weeks ago here in Utah. Running 4 not so good batteries, no block heater, and the intake heater currently doesn't work. Recipe for a hard start but the nhc250 eventually fired up, maybe low teens for the temp.

 

[AMGeneral]

As others have stated,pretty much the nature of the beast on the 250.

The M816 I had,even with 6 new injectors,a completely rebuilt IP,excellent compression(checked w/a diesel compression test set) and as much as 6(yes 6!) hot batteries,would struggle at ANY start below 30 degrees overnight.

Granted,this is without any block heater,either,or the manifold heater working.

I have even slaved it off a running M52A1(also with hot batteries),it would produce HUGE clouds of white smoke,but it would take 30+ seconds of cranking for it to light off.

 

[sandcobra164]

Ether start worked good for a moment this evening. It was about 40 degrees out and the truck started right up. I did the recommended procedure, battery switch on, engage starter, press ether button for 3 seconds, release and running like a champ. I even tested the solenoid twice while running. The truck would idle up around 200 to 300 rpm and settle back down. Feeling like I accomplished something, I started checking for leaks. A steady stream of liquid ether was dripping from the solenoid. Now I think I know why the power wire was disconnected and it had no either bottle. Thank goodness it's fail safe is to drip the ether outside of the solenoid or perhaps I just got lucky on that. Now to buy a solenoid / ether start valve but I'm sure I'll be back in the hunt with cold starts soon. Many trucks and ag equipment run ether start systems so I should be able to find something pretty easily. I'd really prefer to find an original replacement valve as it's a metered charge and designed for the engine. When you press the button, it charges the solenoid, when you release, it closes the solenoid and releases the small amount of either that entered the valve. Somewhat different from spraying while holding the button and very likely safer for the engine.

 

[slothman]

just spray a squirt of starter fluid in the air intake

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Post a picture of the part you need and I'll send it to you for the cost of the trip. I've disconnected mine but haven't removed it. You can have whatever parts are on the engine side of the firewall. The pressure switch going into the PT pump started leaking diesel on mine. I'll never use it so it's been disconnected and plugged at the pump. Everything else is there.

This will give me a reason to finally get this stuff out of from under the hood. If you want everything...well, you can have that too. I'm keeping the dash button and wiring in place though.

 

[74M35A2]

Ether start worked good for a moment this evening. It was about 40 degrees out and the truck started right up. I did the recommended procedure, battery switch on, engage starter, press ether button for 3 seconds, release and running like a champ. I even tested the solenoid twice while running. The truck would idle up around 200 to 300 rpm and settle back down. Feeling like I accomplished something, I started checking for leaks. A steady stream of liquid ether was dripping from the solenoid. Now I think I know why the power wire was disconnected and it had no either bottle. Thank goodness it's fail safe is to drip the ether outside of the solenoid or perhaps I just got lucky on that. Now to buy a solenoid / ether start valve but I'm sure I'll be back in the hunt with cold starts soon. Many trucks and ag equipment run ether start systems so I should be able to find something pretty easily. I'd really prefer to find an original replacement valve as it's a metered charge and designed for the engine. When you press the button, it charges the solenoid, when you release, it closes the solenoid and releases the small amount of either that entered the valve. Somewhat different from spraying while holding the button and very likely safer for the engine.

I believe the ether system has 2 safties associated with its functionality. It has an engine temperature switch, to not allow it to spray above a needed temp, and also I think it should only spray during cranking. I don't think you should be able to spray it while idling (ignition in run). My ether system works well, and I can't spray it using a warm engine or while the engine is running.