Expedition truck...

[davidkroberts]

I used to have a Solar Shower when i was deploying to Iraq before we all got KBR food and showers. I really liked them even when its cold out if you set the filled bladder out in the sun it would get hot in notime. If you forgot or just didnt fill it and warm it before the sun went down then fill it from a cooler filled with warm water and go to work. I believe this would be a little better system because you know exactly how much water you have left and it forces you into a "Navy Shower" and then you could have a smaller shower setup like whats in a popup camper. I realize that everyone wants a full sized shower and luxurious bathroom but its going to take up a ton of room. You dont really use a bathroom all that many hours during the day. Its going to take up at minimum a 5'x8' space in a place with very limited floorspace.

 

[colelkhunter]

i thought it was called a whores bath.

 

[Excuse Me]

I apologize up front if my comments here are not acceptable because I am barely a beginner within this military pool of experience, knowledge and equipment expertise. I have only bought axles and t-cases plus a few odds and ends so far, but am looking at collecting a few heavy haul vehicles as times rolls on.

So, I have been reading several threads similar to this as well as this one with great interest, as I am putting together my own version of an affordable personal rv. However, after drawing it all up, and actually putting the needs on paper, I decided to not buy the M820 at Idaho Motorpool and instead use a civi class 8 truck as the base unit. Right now class 8s with a large sleeper are cheeeeeep. Like scary cheap.

I have it down to 3 trucks and hope to finalize a deal this coming week. My plan is to haul my trail mobile over the rear axle. I have no need for the tandem as I will keep the rv on the asphalt, so the front drive axle will be removed. A short flat bed on a hinge for the small suv can hang over the rear axle quite a ways legally.

Used sleeper boxes are also cheap. So, I plan to, at least to get going on my adventures quickly, leave the factory sleeper in tact and add a second sleeper behind it, but facing the rear of the truck. This way I can frame the walk through opening of the spare sleeper and put a man door, lockable, in the frame work.
On each side of the truck frame, a tank can hang under the second sleeper, one for black water, and one for grey water. The fresh water can be mounted between the sleepers as can a cabnet with the fishing rods and other tools and supplies etc.

An APU will supply the power, ac, heat when no shore power is available.

My reasoning for going this route, is 1, to get on the road sooner with allready proven components for the living and sleeping. 2, because when putting something personal together, it is very difficult to know up front, just what the real exact needs are. Get out there, learn what is missing and what is never going to work or get used. Make notes. Modify accordingly.

IMO, and from what I have read online, for the most part, it seems that camping folks that go way out offroad into the woods etc, prefer to go there for the rugged nature of it. Usually, (but not allways of course) prefering a minimalistic style of camping. Many times, it was learned the hard way, and expensive way, that hauling or towing a really expensive or heavy and cumbersome vehicle into the woods that far, proved more work than play, ruining the overall experience.

I plan to keep the living quarters safe and on a predicatable surface, then go off road should I wish to, using the hauled suv.

I hope not including much in the form of military equipment in my reply does not offend the OP. But I was actually considering the M820. I had the owner of IMP send me pics and everything. It is an awesome setup, and very versatile. However, it is, as mentioned, difficult to install fixtures within the expandable box. Likely the reason the military equipment was not mounted in there, but carried in once the van was expanded and setup.

Hauling is allways better than towing when possible. Fuel milage is a large consideration, and it appears here on this site, that it is also a consideration to the members here when building something like this. A friend drove a 435 horse cummins, bobtailing with an autoshift, from hillsboro oregon to Illinois(sp) somewhere to buy and pickup a new grain trailer. They got 11mpg bobtailing with all 10 tires on the ground. Pulling the trailer lessened the milage some, but not signifigantly when empty. I have been told by several sources while searching for my truck, that even a 500 hp cat, detroit, volvo, or cummins can get 11 easily when bobtailing a single drive axle. Especially if good driving habits are used and an experienced driver of large trucks and transmissions is behind the wheel. Aint no way I can touch that pulling an equally equipped trailer behind my 2008 dodge 2500 with the 6.7 cummins. While just pullling a small 14' tandem axle flatbed trailer on the highway, I cant get over 12.3mpg. If I had to pull a travel trailer equivelent to the trucks quarters, I'd be sub 10 mpg if there was so much as a breeze head on.

Am I ok making this reply?

 

[Bighurt]

I apologize up front if my comments here are not acceptable because I am barely a beginner within this military pool of experience, knowledge and equipment expertise. I have only bought axles and t-cases plus a few odds and ends so far, but am looking at collecting a few heavy haul vehicles as times rolls on.

So, I have been reading several threads similar to this as well as this one with great interest, as I am putting together my own version of an affordable personal rv. However, after drawing it all up, and actually putting the needs on paper, I decided to not buy the M820 at Idaho Motorpool and instead use a civi class 8 truck as the base unit. Right now class 8s with a large sleeper are cheeeeeep. Like scary cheap.

I have it down to 3 trucks and hope to finalize a deal this coming week. My plan is to haul my trail mobile over the rear axle. I have no need for the tandem as I will keep the rv on the asphalt, so the front drive axle will be removed. A short flat bed on a hinge for the small suv can hang over the rear axle quite a ways legally.

Used sleeper boxes are also cheap. So, I plan to, at least to get going on my adventures quickly, leave the factory sleeper in tact and add a second sleeper behind it, but facing the rear of the truck. This way I can frame the walk through opening of the spare sleeper and put a man door, lockable, in the frame work.
On each side of the truck frame, a tank can hang under the second sleeper, one for black water, and one for grey water. The fresh water can be mounted between the sleepers as can a cabnet with the fishing rods and other tools and supplies etc.

An APU will supply the power, ac, heat when no shore power is available.

My reasoning for going this route, is 1, to get on the road sooner with allready proven components for the living and sleeping. 2, because when putting something personal together, it is very difficult to know up front, just what the real exact needs are. Get out there, learn what is missing and what is never going to work or get used. Make notes. Modify accordingly.

IMO, and from what I have read online, for the most part, it seems that camping folks that go way out offroad into the woods etc, prefer to go there for the rugged nature of it. Usually, (but not allways of course) prefering a minimalistic style of camping. Many times, it was learned the hard way, and expensive way, that hauling or towing a really expensive or heavy and cumbersome vehicle into the woods that far, proved more work than play, ruining the overall experience.

I plan to keep the living quarters safe and on a predicatable surface, then go off road should I wish to, using the hauled suv.

I hope not including much in the form of military equipment in my reply does not offend the OP. But I was actually considering the M820. I had the owner of IMP send me pics and everything. It is an awesome setup, and very versatile. However, it is, as mentioned, difficult to install fixtures within the expandable box. Likely the reason the military equipment was not mounted in there, but carried in once the van was expanded and setup.

Hauling is allways better than towing when possible. Fuel milage is a large consideration, and it appears here on this site, that it is also a consideration to the members here when building something like this. A friend drove a 435 horse cummins, bobtailing with an autoshift, from hillsboro oregon to Illinois(sp) somewhere to buy and pickup a new grain trailer. They got 11mpg bobtailing with all 10 tires on the ground. Pulling the trailer lessened the milage some, but not signifigantly when empty. I have been told by several sources while searching for my truck, that even a 500 hp cat, detroit, volvo, or cummins can get 11 easily when bobtailing a single drive axle. Especially if good driving habits are used and an experienced driver of large trucks and transmissions is behind the wheel. Aint no way I can touch that pulling an equally equipped trailer behind my 2008 dodge 2500 with the 6.7 cummins. While just pullling a small 14' tandem axle flatbed trailer on the highway, I cant get over 12.3mpg. If I had to pull a travel trailer equivelent to the trucks quarters, I'd be sub 10 mpg if there was so much as a breeze head on.

Am I ok making this reply?

First off the M820 at IMP is way over priced.

Secondly your comments are welcome, that's sort of the point of a forum to express and offer different points of view.

I agree if I didn't have an affluence to MV's I would probably be using a class 6 or 7 or if I could afford what I wanted a class 8. Realistically a class 8 is usually just to big for off road operations. At least the environment I hope to contend with.

I also agree based on the weigh moved a big truck is far more efficient but you should be getting more with your 6.7. Is your pre DPF or Post DPF? If it's pre you have something wrong or everybody around here has the same lie, cause they all love to rub mileage in my face.

With my mods I'm pushing 11 mpg towing my 14k fiver.

Post all you like I'm usually the one sid tracking the thread so might as well happen in my own thread right.

Cheers

 

[Excuse Me]

Cool. Thanks. I'm still new here, so I like to make friends instead of enemies as I learn what is acceptable and not.

My 6.7 has the dpf. 3.73:1 gears, 6 speed auto. Milage sucks bad. I did note that the brand and quality of fuel made a world of difference though. Cheap fuel on a discount rewards card, caused more "service engine" codes and milage drops. So I buy the good stuff nowdays and seem to get by ok with no more codes.

I realize most of the military stuff I look at will be overpriced as I have little to no experience in finding the "deals". But I do proudly admitt, the more I learn about the military vehicles as well as other products and supplies, the more I like it and get hooked on the incredible durability and versatility of it. This is why I ask some of those goofy questions about using the trucks as ag tractors.

 

[oldMan99]

I apologize up front ....

So, I have been reading several threads similar to this as well as this one with great interest, as I am putting together my own version of an affordable personal rv. However, after drawing it all up, and actually putting the needs on paper, I decided to not buy the M820 at Idaho Motorpool and instead use a civi class 8 truck as the base unit. Right now class 8s with a large sleeper are cheeeeeep. Like scary cheap.

There are many factors at play in deciding what base vehicle to use. For many on this site part of the deal is that is is "Green Iron" or simply put, "Former military". Some see it as preserving a part of history, some see it that generally military vehicles are built for no BS heavy duty use. Some just like the "Cool looks".

Personally, for me, it is some of each and also "Expanded capability" I want/need 6x6 drive. Civilian trucks with 6x6 are available. However, I have yet to find one for under $10k that did not need another $10k++ just to get it to the point that it was ready to start being built on. Most of them have been literally beat to within an inch of their lives.

I have evaluated purchasing a "Normal" class 8 civilian truck and adding a front drive axle and transfer case. By the time this was completed it would cost between $6-10k just for that mod. And then, the rear differentials are open, not lockers. Both the OP here and I are looking at either 916 or 920 to use as a base vehicle that has factory 6x6 with lockers in the rear and is more or less good to go. I'll be changing the ring and pinion (3 of them) and that will likely cost about $4k but according to everything I have learned from Soni, this is really optional and I may start off with the stock gears and see how it goes although I am VERY inclined to et that done prior to getting it on the road. I am however stil looking for a source for the gears....

I have it down to 3 trucks and hope to finalize a deal this coming week. My plan is to haul my trail mobile over the rear axle. I have no need for the tandem as I will keep the rv on the asphalt, so the front drive axle will be removed. A short flat bed on a hinge for the small suv can hang over the rear axle quite a ways legally.

P Lease don't take this wrong, but that sounds like a stuck vehicle looking for a place to happen.

Used sleeper boxes are also cheap. So, I plan to, at least to get going on my adventures quickly, leave the factory sleeper in tact and add a second sleeper behind it, but facing the rear of the truck. This way I can frame the walk through opening of the spare sleeper and put a man door, lockable, in the frame work.
On each side of the truck frame, a tank can hang under the second sleeper, one for black water, and one for grey water. The fresh water can be mounted between the sleepers as can a cabnet with the fishing rods and other tools and supplies etc.

Just a couple days ago I read a thread (on a different board) about a guy that took a civilian class 8 and installed 2 big double sleepers in much the same way you described here. Looked very nice.

An APU will supply the power, ac, heat when no shore power is available.

I'm not sure the APU HVAC will have the capacity to effectively cool that much square footage. Be sure to carefully check that out. The APU is however a very cool unit with lots of features. You could always back up the APU HVAC with a RV A/C-heat unit on the roof if you need to.

My reasoning for going this route, is 1, to get on the road sooner with allready proven components for the living and sleeping. 2, because when putting something personal together, it is very difficult to know up front, just what the real exact needs are. Get out there, learn what is missing and what is never going to work or get used. Make notes. Modify accordingly.

Having had several commercial RV's I think both the OP and myself have a real good idea of what we want and what will/will not work, but yes, once started it will likely see several modifications/evolutions/changes over the years.

IMO, and from what I have read online, for the most part, it seems that camping folks that go way out offroad into the woods etc, prefer to go there for the rugged nature of it. Usually, (but not allways of course) prefering a minimalistic style of camping. Many times, it was learned the hard way, and expensive way, that hauling or towing a really expensive or heavy and cumbersome vehicle into the woods that far, proved more work than play, ruining the overall experience.

I believe you may be right to a point but I think more likely it is a product of necessity (Size/mobility) and economics both in terms of money laid out and time/sweat invested, than a deliberate choice go smaller than larger and less than more just for the "Rugged nature of it"

I plan to keep the living quarters safe and on a predicatable surface, then go off road should I wish to, using the hauled suv.

I hope so. My 34' civilian RV would get stuck so easily I like to say "It would get stuck on wet pavement". Several times it sank in "normal" campgrounds. Flat tire on the interstate? Pull off onto the shoulder... stuck there 2x. I see normal class 8 trucks stuck on shoulders and unpaved parking lots all the time. It is very likely that I am going overboard with a 6x6 with a big winch on the front and back but what is that the Boy Scouts say????

I hope not including much in the form of military equipment in my reply does not offend the OP. But I was actually considering the M820. I had the owner of IMP send me pics and everything. It is an awesome setup, and very versatile. However, it is, as mentioned, difficult to install fixtures within the expandable box. Likely the reason the military equipment was not mounted in there, but carried in once the van was expanded and setup.

Kind of funny, both the OP and myself are SERIOUSLY considering getting a 820 to use as a fast build option to our larger longer term builds. Get the 820 first, build it and once done and using it, start on the 916/920 project. I don't believe either of us are planning on using the expanding ability of the 820. In fact, I may permanently weld the sides shut with continuous welds to provide a 100% solid, permanent seal against water. It will also make the box much more rugged.

Hauling is allways better than towing when possible.

I would say that is debatable. All depends on your particular mission assignment and the equipment that mission will require.

Fuel milage is a large consideration, and it appears here on this site, that it is also a consideration to the members here when building something like this. .....

Of course it is, especially now. But like everything else in life, there are trade offs. You make your choices and deal with the aftermath....lol.

Am I ok making this reply?

I don't see a problem with it but I have only been here a short time. Others may be offended but I rather doubt it. In fact, when I first started talking about what I wanted to do several long time well respected members flat out told me I would be happier in a civilian class 8 truck.

 

[oldMan99]

Post all you like I'm usually the one side tracking the thread so might as well happen in my own thread right.

Cheers

LOL.. So, the other day I was......

 

[Bighurt]

Kind of funny, both the OP and myself are SERIOUSLY considering getting a 820 to use as a fast build option to our larger longer term builds. Get the 820 first, build it and once done and using it, start on the 916/920 project. I don't believe either of us are planning on using the expanding ability of the 820. In fact, I may permanently weld the sides shut with continuous welds to provide a 100% solid, permanent seal against water. It will also make the box much more rugged.

I'm actually trying to take the expandability and work with it. Thing is all I have is pictures or numbers, I haven't been in one.

So the box maybe really uncomfortably, I don't know.

My two thoughts are;

A) Modernizing the panels into something a little more weather temperature friendly. Possibly removing them and making them like slide out for RV's. Which takes us to two.

B) You should always be able to use the unit without expanding it. My RV can be completely utilized except the back room which we use for storage on the road anyways. Just so happens the big living room slide blocks the door, if it becomes a problem I have a mod planned out.

I would say that is debatable. All depends on your particular mission assignment and the equipment that mission will require.

I agree. There are many times that while on the road you miss-calculate a fuel stop and the safe harbor is impossible to navigate with a 35' fiver on the back. Having the ability to drop the trailer and fuel the truck is a lifesaver. Now image the same scenario with a 40' class 8. Or even worse since this is expedition trucks, how about petro stops in south America?

Now I plan to add a Titan tank this year to save my skin...but it only goes so far.

 

[oldMan99]

I'm actually trying to take the expandability and work with it. Thing is all I have is pictures or numbers, I haven't been in one.

So the box maybe really uncomfortably, I don't know.

My two thoughts are;

A) Modernizing the panels into something a little more weather temperature friendly. Possibly removing them and making them like slide out for RV's. Which takes us to two.

One of our SS members with a M820 is (as we speak this weekend) taking his 820 to another one of our SS members who has been known to fabricate some pretty impressive stuff to investigate just that possibility. After I hear back from one of them as to the feasibility, operability and cost of doing something like this I'll make my final decision on which way to go with the 820. However, in no case will I use the stock expandability option as it is just to much trouble for 1 person to operate and I just don't see how you can use it like a "Normal" slide in a conventional RV with mounted furniture and so forth.

B) You should always be able to use the unit without expanding it. My RV can be completely utilized except the back room which we use for storage on the road anyways. Just so happens the big living room slide blocks the door, if it becomes a problem I have a mod planned out.

Agreed. I have seen several conventional RV's that were all but useless unless you had the time and space to expand them. Never made any sense to me.

I agree. There are many times that while on the road you miss-calculate a fuel stop and the safe harbor is impossible to navigate with a 35' fiver on the back. Having the ability to drop the trailer and fuel the truck is a lifesaver. Now image the same scenario with a 40' class 8. Or even worse since this is expedition trucks, how about petro stops in south America?

Now I plan to add a Titan tank this year to save my skin...but it only goes so far.

Thats what the 4 wheeler/Mule/golf cart and those 5 GI 5 gallon fuel cans are for.... only 4 round trips to fill your 100 gallon tank....

 

[Bighurt]

I hesitated to post not wanting to get off thread..but then I remembered I was the OP...LOL

Anyways to deal with the expandability of the truck. If keeping it in tact with possibility of just improving the insulation and making it a one man job. I was tossing around ideas in my head of making the expansion portion bunks and either placed in the cell after it's dropping into the space or from an interior wall. I sorta like this idea except the bunk vs queen size bed.

If the floor becomes hydraulic then On could just have a bunk/dinette mounted to the floor. When dropped into place this space would be accessible.

Still thinking...

What would be easiest is the first idea that popped into my head. Use the M820 as a mobile wood shop.

 

[Unforgiven]

Plastic can be far superior to steel and aluminum given the fact that it's flexible. It's all about the correct kind of plastic. For example High-Density Cross-Linked Polyethylene tanks are 20 times stronger than steel. They have no welds or seams thus they will not split/crack when twisted or stressed they are also 5 times more resistant to punctures. HDCLP is what Titan fuel tanks are made out of.

I did my research on this one, if you don't believe me that's fine, but I suggest you google stress/drop tests for HDCLP.

Also if you have equal tanks for black and fresh you will still have to worry about over filling your black as you are adding waste not only liquid but solids as well. Remember we drink more than water yet we still output urine...

Lastly the reason for separate gray/black tanks are there are different dump requirements for each. Yes at dump stations they go in the same hole. However in some areas it's perfectly legal to dump your grey water on the ground. Just a thought not a recommendation... best to look up state/park requirements first. Although at work we have the premise better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Yes plastics can be strong. But for repeated vibration/flexing/mounting to metal framing I'm skeptical of the application for a serious off-road RV.

True, if it's mounted inside the bed w/lots of support I suppose it would be better. Then it could be insulated to prevent freezing.

Grey water tanks are only needed if you plan to dump at a campground dump station. All you need to make a dump station at your own home is a 2" minimum vented sewer hookup. It's not that big of a deal to make your own fully-code-compliant dump station at home.

If you dump at home then you don't have to worry about it.

Yes, plan for a black tank just a little larger than fresh tank. It doesn't need to be much larger. When's the last time you took a 10 gallon dump?

You might consider an M814 for your expedition vehicle. That 20' bed coupled with a lift axle in the middle would be ideal. I'm not doing that simply because of residential codes with respect to 5 ton trucks.

 

[Bighurt]

Grey water tanks are only needed if you plan to dump at a campground dump station. All you need to make a dump station at your own home is a 2" minimum vented sewer hookup. It's not that big of a deal to make your own fully-code-compliant dump station at home.

If you dump at home then you don't have to worry about it.

I don't know about others but I plan to not bring my $#!T home.

Keeping a separate grey tank will let me dump it more often then finding a proper waste dump for the black tank.

But I also plan to use a composting toilet so, I won't have a black tank.

Not much of an expedition vehicle if I have to satay within two weeks drive of home.

 

[Bighurt]

Possible change in direction...

I realize this is in the 5 ton mod thread but I'm considering changing directions with my Expedition truck. No it didn't die I just have had other things on my mind.

If I didn't already post I lurk over on Expedition portal under the same user name.

Since I acquired my M925 I've been thinking about this more and more. And the reality is the expedition truck/shtf scenario. It's the Muilti-fuel that has a +1, being able to burn nearly everything is a huge advantage.

No the M925 isn't muilti-fuel, but having a bigger version of the M35, meant the M35 could become something else. I still have issues not keeping my M35 whole so there could be another truck purchase in my future and that may very well be a old muilti-fuel 5 ton. If I can find one...

Never the less the expandable (M820) and equivalent, just isn't going to work well for a camper. I thought about it 30 ways to sunday and it is just simpler to build a unit-cat style box.

So rather than let this thread die, I figured I'd update it. I'm going to sketch some militaryesk uni-cat box to utilize the M35/M54 chassis. I'd like to keep the package as small as possible. Sleeping space for 2 persons, bath, kitchen, dining area. As much as it would make sense to 4x4 the truck I want to keep the duals and super single the truck. I really don't see the need for 53's so until I decide 385's work on the M35 and they will be perfect for my plan. My biggest issue is the tandem flex and interference with the box, I'll have to work on that one. I also want to make a cab access to the box, but they maybe and issue as well.

I realize this falls along similar lines as the expedition truck thread that is fairly recent, which I've been following.

So I don't want to take away from his thread, rather I'll just butcher my own.

Thanks

 

[tamangel]

Will you be considering the Unicat Raising roof design?

Here's a bunch more unicats:

unicat - Google Search

re: frame twist/flex, are you familiar with Rob Gray and his 'Worts'? Here's his construction diary for WORT 2..

http://www.robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot2/diaries/diary_06/index.php#twist

Mike

 

[quickfarms]

I am planning on building my rv inside of a 20 foot insulated container

I may use a 10 foot freezer that I have if I can not afford the 20 footer

As far as fuel milage goes my truck get about 9 mpg around town

 

[Bighurt]

Thanks, I am using a four point mount similar to Rob's however I think it will be similar to the unicat mount. quickfarms, I'm keeping my eye out for insulated containers.

Depending on if I use a container or a home made box, will greatly effect the pop up roof. Right now I am planning a pop up roof, using Rhinokore panels in the construction.

I'd really like to make it look like a new version of the M109, but I don't think that's possible. I also am keeping my eye out for an M109...LOL

 

[tamangel]

Jeremy, Rob Gray's first truck, WORT 1, was larger. Here's his diaries on that truck. Frame twist seems to start around diary 9

Rob Gray :: graynomad :: wothahellizat :: wot1 :: diaries

Mike

 

[srodocker]

there is a m109 for sale over here bighurt that i could put the crate in and ship it over lol

 

[Sirblissfull]

Ahh come on buy my m820 that is at Soni's place.

 

[Bighurt]

there is a m109 for sale over here bighurt that i could put the crate in and ship it over lol

Yeah, I'm having trouble finding funds for the LMTV cover is already an issue...
I should say funding cheaper shipping is the issue not the money.

Ahh come on buy my m820 that is at Soni's place.

I thought you picked that up? And from what we discussed last time, the price is well out of my price range.