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Fill Jet A1 into the humvee?
- Thread starter HUNvee
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Of course you can. Jet A1 is JP8 with an additive, to keep water from freezing at high altitude. I bet, if you look in the Operators TM, list of authorized fuels, its even listed.
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I would use a lubricant, also there is a 5% power loss and a 5% loss in fuel economy using the Kerosene based fuel.
There also seems to be a larger number of defective IPs in the surplus military vehicles using JP8
There also seems to be a larger number of defective IPs in the surplus military vehicles using JP8
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You do need to add a lubricant. When I was running Jet A in my 7.3 Power Stroke, I put 5 gallons of WVO with 25 gallons of Jet A. Realistically, you probably only need a gallon of VO. I've bought a gallon of Wesson VO at Publix and poured that in when I didn't have any WVO on hand.
Southwest Research Institute studied the use of JP fuels in the DB2 pumps. There is ZERO issue with lubricity.
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its what the Military runs in all its diesel engines….no issues, just much more expensive than no.2
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First they only tested 5 pumps and had no operational history on the pumps, second they confirmed that JP8 is a "low lubricity" fuel, of the 5 pumps they could not determine why two of them failed but felt that SHORT-TERM operation on low lubricity fuels was not the cause.
I am positive if I had to run on JP8 I would use a lubricity additive, just as I do on ultra low sulfur diesel.
You also have to consider the military saves a butt load of money not having to invest in the logistics of shipping, storing and distributing more than one type of fuel so they could justify the costs of replacing fuel system components on some of the motorized fleet.
So to say they found ZERO issue with low lubricity would be incorrect, also one usually finds the results wanted by the folks paying for the study or in the future they go pay someone else.
BTW I worked for SRI in San Antonio when I was young in the "Cat Lab" where we tested engine lubricants on single cylinder Caterpillar engines, VERY hot and so noisy we had to use two types of hearing protection and were tested every month.
Effect of Low-Lubricity Fuels on Diesel Injection Pumps - Part II:Laborator Evaluation
This paper is the second of two that describe the effects of low-lubricity fuels on diesel injection pump performance. The first paper describes the primary failure mechanisms and wear processes in a number of failed pumps removed from both military and civilian vehicles that had been operated on Je
EDIT there is no argument that the fuel lubricates the Roosamaster IP, so the term "low lubricity fuel" is all I really need to know.
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So what additive would you recommend?
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10-15 years after this study was done, the CECOM mandated that all units using JP8 in gen sets, were to add oil to the fuel tank. I can not produce a document, as its been too long ago, and I tossed out all that stuff in 2010. But I saw and read the directive.
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I use Stanadyne, they build the IP so I figure they know what it needs.
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One night at 03:00 Berlin time, during the first sand box war, I called THE senior Air Force Fuels NCO in Iceland. I asked him what the difference was, between JP-8 and Jet-A1 was. After he explained to me at least 45 min, everything there was to know about Kerosene type fuels. What I learned was that Jet-A1 had an additive to keep water from freezing at extremely high altitudes. Nothing more. I had received a phone call from C-1/7 ADA, Patriot. The unit was 10 klicks from Basra, and had 1 hours fuel left. The only available fuel was Jet-A1 from the Air Force. "Can I use it!!" My answer then, was "Yes, go for it." This is the list of Authorized Fuels, taken from the -10 TM.
FUEL REQUIREMENTS — TEMPERATURE LIMITS (VV-F-800)
Grade DF2 Fuel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .For use above +10°F (-12°C)*
Grade DF1** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .For use below +10°F (-12°C)
to above -20°F (-29°C)
Grade DFA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .For use below -20°F (-29°C)
All Temperature Alternate . . . . . . . .JP8
* Temperature limits may vary dependent on the cloud point of the
actual DF2 fuel being supplied in the geographical area.
** DF1 is not normally procured in CONUS or OCONUS. Refineries will
blend DF2 with kerosene to meet temperature requirements of DF1.
FUEL REQUIREMENTS — TEMPERATURE LIMITS (VV-F-800)
Grade DF2 Fuel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .For use above +10°F (-12°C)*
Grade DF1** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .For use below +10°F (-12°C)
to above -20°F (-29°C)
Grade DFA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .For use below -20°F (-29°C)
All Temperature Alternate . . . . . . . .JP8
* Temperature limits may vary dependent on the cloud point of the
actual DF2 fuel being supplied in the geographical area.
** DF1 is not normally procured in CONUS or OCONUS. Refineries will
blend DF2 with kerosene to meet temperature requirements of DF1.
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personally I like Optilube XL.
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Last time our club bought Opti-Lube, it was in a five gallon bucket, enough to treat 2500 gallons of JP-8, Diesel 1 or 2.
Autonomy_Lost
Well-known member
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Sounds like something you'd find in the personal health aisle.
The SAE intro makes the same statement. Fuel viscosity/lubricity were not contributing factors to pump failure. The recommendation was to test for oxidation and corrosion from the fuel. This is usually evaluated with the copper strip test (ASTM D130).
ToddJK
Well-known member
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Imo, when using jet fuel, just adding some wmo is sufficient depending on your engine. That's what I did when I had a few hundred gallons of it, I ran about 10-15 gallons of wmo to 35-40 gallons of jet fuel and my deuce ran great. It also seemed to have way more power and better fuel efficiency with the jet fuel over diesel and especially over wmo alone. Running it alone though, I don't know about that, it was clear and any that got my skin seemed to dry it out real bad like gasoline does but unlike gasoline, this stuff kinda burned too. I don't see why new or clean oil won't suffice in other diesel engines if mixing with jet fuel.
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back in 2007 someone did a study for different additives and their effects on lubricity.
It's about as unbiased as a test as you can get, and most of the additives tested are still readily available today.
The Optilube XL wasn't on the list because it wasn't out yet, but it's apparently better than the XPD version and requires less. Doesn't have the anti-gel in it is probably the big difference.
EDIT: basically the best additive at the time was making a 2% biodiesel blend. I have heard though that once you start going above about 5% blend the benefits start to diminish? Can't verify, just something I heard.
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I use the same. They have 2 types lubricity and stabilizer or something like that.