First Deuce -- Rear Main Seal

[lobanz]

OK. You guys are starting to maybe sorta talk me into doing this myself. My friend has more knowledge of this sort of stuff than I (not on deuces, but cars and trucks). Even my wife said that we should do it to learn about the truck. "Know thy deuce." A local SS member, Caleb, offered to help too (ain't that awesome!).

But whether or not I do it myself or with a shop, I will need to buy the parts. Here's my parts list so far. Perhaps some of you guys would look it over for me. We plan to replace the clutch too. Also the parking brake cable and shoes.

• Main Seal + Clutch Parts:

• • Rear Main Seal (maybe one of the newer flouroelastomer or teflon ones)
  • Rear Main Seal Retainer Gasket (aka "carrier gasket"???)
  • Clutch Disk
  • Clutch Pressure Plate
  • Clutch Throwout Bearing
  • Clutch Pilot Bushing (or is it a bearing? or both?)
  • Flywheel to Crankshaft Bolts (these are single use, right? Where to find them?)
  • Drive Shaft Bolts and Lock Nuts (are these single use also? Where to find them?)
• Parking Brake Parts:
  • Inner Shoe
  • Outer Shoe
  • Parking Brake Cable (twist knob style)
  • Springs (White Owls said there are 3 springs??? One for each shoe + another?)

Are there any gaskets between engine and transmission?

Is there anything else in there that should be replaced or checked in there? Don't want to have to do this again for a long time.

Also, looking at the newer main seal made of newer materials. Anyone have good/bad experiences with them?

Been talking to White Owl for parts. Looks like they have everything I need (except the fancy new rear main seals). Any other parts supplier suggestions?

Thanks again guys!

 

[saddamsnightmare]

May 25th, 2010.

Lobanz:

The usual suppliers can get you the parts, try White Owl Parts, Eastern Surplus, OD Iron, Memphis or Boyce. I've had good luck with the Kivetts at White Owl on my repair parts needs. The flywheel to crankshaft bolts are one use only, so do get the new ones, they won't eat your wallet alive, but reusing the old ones definitely will.... A lot of guys will reuse the bolt and nuts on the transmission universal joints, if you can afford it get new, especially for the 12" shaft between the tranny and the transfer... and check them frequently- if that one lets go at speed you will know it. I think theres a gasket between the engine and bell housing, but I may be off on that, theres also one between the bell housing and the tranny front. Wayne Harris on here has the manuals on CD for the deuce, or you can download them to a disk, look under "Resources" above, also look for the -24P parts manual for the M35A2 on that list....

Good luck, it ain't rocket science, and you will appreciate (or hate) your truck more when you're done (depending on how the repairs go)....

 

[lobanz]

The usual suppliers can get you the parts, try White Owl Parts, Eastern Surplus, OD Iron, Memphis or Boyce. I've had good luck with the Kivetts at White Owl on my repair parts needs.

White Owl had everything I needed and pretty good prices. I was surprised that shipping was so low. Hopefully the parts should be in Friday.

They also will allow you to return the clutch disk and pressure plate for a $50 core refund. The didn't have a clutch alignment tool, but they put in a Transmission Main Drive Gear, which they said could be used for alignment purposes. It evidently includes the input transmission input shaft on it. They charge $175 but said they will take it back and refund me the full amount upon return, but I pay for return shipping. Pretty helpful.

[I'm recording all this here because I didn't see it on the forums and it might be helpful to someone.]

The flywheel to crankshaft bolts are one use only, so do get the new ones, they won't eat your wallet alive, but reusing the old ones definitely will.... A lot of guys will reuse the bolt and nuts on the transmission universal joints, if you can afford it get new, especially for the 12" shaft between the tranny and the transfer... and check them frequently- if that one lets go at speed you will know it.

Check. Got new bolts for flywheel and drive shaft. Flywheel bolts were $6.25 ea and sold in packs of 6. The drive shaft bolts were only $1.25 ea, probably could have found them locally.

Is there a certain torque on the flywheel bolts? I've read of some folks putting blue Locktite on them and tightening them with an impact wrench. Is this a good idea?

I think theres a gasket between the engine and bell housing, but I may be off on that, theres also one between the bell housing and the tranny front. Wayne Harris on here has the manuals on CD for the deuce, or you can download them to a disk, look under "Resources" above, also look for the -24P parts manual for the M35A2 on that list....

White Owl said that there are no gaskets between the transmission and the motor. Hope he was right.

The 2 1/2 ton parts manual wasn't in Resources that I could tell. I did browse it a bit elsewhere. The parts manual is so huge I could never find what I was after. My friend has a CD with lots of manuals on it. Hopefully in PDF and not the individual scanned pages I was trying to use.

 

[StoneMill]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/41596-new-deuce-needs-new-main-rear-seal.html

here is the link to my rear main repair. You probably read it already if you did a search. Might be helpful as there are a few links in it others had posted. I had a little trouble adjusting the clutch at first.

 

[lobanz]

Thanks, StoneMill. I read it, but I missed something...

Kyle said the following in StoneMill's rear main seal thread:

Parts needed will be rear main seal, carrier seal and 6 new flywheel bolts, plus transmission to bell housing gasket. 6 ton jacks, transmission jack large or chain hoist and about 12 to 14 hours to do it right.

I noticed a gasket between transmission and bell housing in WP 132 of TM 9-2320-361-24-1 (pg 867 of 2006 edition). White Owl had told me that there were no gaskets there so I called him back after I saw it. He said that, yes, it's in the repair manual, but no one replaces it because it really doesn't seal anything and after a time of deterioration it can cause looseness in that interface so common practice is to bolt it on metal to metal. Can anyone confirm this? I assume I can make this out of gasket stock if I decide to.

 

[StoneMill]

Just put my tranny back in this week. No seal between the bell housing and tranny. We did use some permatex between the bell housing and the flange only because my friend (master diesel mechanic) suggested it, but I understand that it isn't necessary. Just bolt it on there. We also did not use an alignment tool, just a metal spike ground down to fit the pilot bushing and eyed up the clutch/pressure plate. Could use a wooden dowel... Less likely to screw up the bushing with wood.

This was the first clutch I've ever replaced on any vehicle and I could do it without a manual or tutorial at this point.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

May 26th, 2010.

Lobanz:

I used the gaskets between the transmission and the bell housing because the service manual called for it, and my truck has been forded near that deep, so anything to keep the water out is OK with me. I am one that sticks to Uncle's repair bible text, figuring his guys designed it, they must have had a reason to do it... But if your good with going without, it's a coupla bucks in your pocket.
Wayne Harris, member on here from Baxter, Ga. sells the CDs of the manuals on EBAY, but if you contact him through this site, he's a righteous man to deal with and will cut you some huge slack. I need to pick his brain to locate the engine, axle and transmission rebuild manuals, because I have the hard copies of the -10,-20 &24P parts manuals, but not the above three. Between you and the wall, I am a Neo-Luddite as regards paper manuals versus CD's, but the CD's can be carried in the glove box or engine bag and thus you have them on trips should you or a diesel mech need to repair something...... BE very careful of the truck electrical shops, a lot of them are not very up on the Government alternators and starters, which are different in some ways from more modern vehicles, and some ways they aren't. Most truck mechanics freak out when they see a deuce in their maintenance bay for the first time, so always take the CD or the manual and show them how to do it, otherwise 99% of the time they will screw up royally, and often bust your truck.....

Stone age vehicles just blow their computer assisted minds.....


N.B. I seem to remember one of our members using a certain size deep well socket as the guide tool for the flywheel or clutch remounting..... Ask WilL Wagner, if he hasn't done it before, it probably hasn't been done, Pluse HE can consult with his Bunny guards to see what tools goes good in that position...(OOPs, sorry Will.....!).
Good luck,

 

[lobanz]

I used the gaskets between the transmission and the bell housing because the service manual called for it, and my truck has been forded near that deep, so anything to keep the water out is OK with me.,

Didn't think about fording.... Very cool. Will probably try to make one from gasket stock then. Thanks!

 

[dcwilkie]

Another great parts place is Eric's Military and Industrial Surplus.
Excellent prices. Fast ground shipping.

Erik's Military and Industrial Surplus - Military Vehicle Parts, Industrial and Military Surplus Electronics

 

[Mt Doom Field Owner]

I came up on a good bunch of mechanics on my Deuce at Truck Express Lube, Inc. in Cullman, Alabama.. about 50 miles to your south. One of their mechanics has his own M35A2 that may get bobbed soon. I believe they have a heavy service truck and do repairs out on the road. They offered to drive to Birmingham to service some leaking wheel seals on another SS members truck one time. You'd need to call them to see if they would be able & willing to take on the main seal job but they certainly seem to know how to fix things and charge reasonable rates. They buy parts from the same places mentioned in one of the post above so prices are pretty standard. Give them a call and ask for Chuck at 256-734-LUBE - (5832). They have helped me out a bunch! Good luck and welcome to SS Forums... you will come to love this place!

 

[lobanz]

I came up on a good bunch of mechanics on my Deuce at Truck Express Lube, Inc. in Cullman, Alabama.. [...] Give them a call and ask for Chuck at 256-734-LUBE - (5832). They have helped me out a bunch! Good luck and welcome to SS Forums... you will come to love this place!

It was 5823, but very cool. I talked to Chuck. Good rates. He mentioned that he did a lot of work for Mt Doom. He also said I might want to talk to Leonard at REI Sales and Service (256-775-6820). Leonard evidently does a lot of Deuce/MV work like bobbing, gear ratio altering (so you can drive 70 MPH), etc. Leonard should call me back today. We're looking at adding power steering also. And a muffler. And maybe a real emergency brake for safety.

Good contacts. Thanks Doom!

 

[Mt Doom Field Owner]

lobanz... Alas... When I wrote the Truck Express Lube phone number down I displayed a classic example of dyslexia. I saw the number as 5823 but wrote 5832. I can think of a lot of disabilities that are worse but I've had this since birth. If you were to suddenly say to me "point left" ... my right hand would fly out! My mind does a quick reverse and I would get it right after a moment of thinking about it. Anyway, hope you are now on your way to meeting a good bunch of mechanics or their referrals. Good Luck!

 

[tsstout]

Since we're in the area here....


I am going to be doing a transmission install soon and wanted to prepare... What size and grade are the 12 nuts which hold he transmission to the bellhousing... I haven't removed them yet, but they look a bit rough, so I thought replacing them would be good....

I've already acquired the nuts for the drivelines.... Figured these were just as important....

Thanks... Terry

 

[tsstout]

Well I see these NUTs are actually bolts with lock washers on them... my mistake... I was going on memory.. but the TM shows them as bolts and washers... Anyone know the grade?? I seem to recall in an older post that someone said they were 3/8" maybe?? Confirmations on that too please.... I'm trying to actually have all the parts BEFORE I start... and am doing this from the office....

Thanks... Terry

 

[usafe7ret]

In speedmon's sub thread, he used some kind of adapter to connect his hois to in order to lower the transmission. It is barely visible in the picture, but can someone tell me what is is and is it something you buy, borrow, build, etc?

Thanks

 

[bigugh20]

usafe - the last post in that thread says that he used a 4x4 laid across the back wall of the cab and the windshield frame (with the window down)

 

[Recovry4x4]

A little trick with the 4x4 through the window and across the back of the cab trick. Since the tranny is so light I just use a come-a-long but even if you use a chain hoist, try this. Use a small length of chain around the 4x4 to secure your lifting device. Run this chain through a small length of black iron pipe or a galvanized nipple or something. This makes it much easier to slide the hoist and subsequently the tranny, fore and aft for removal and install.

 

[snoplay]

Recovery, are you saying rear window to windshield or side to side?

 

[snoplay]

My son just picked up a 71 M35 and it developed a leak after a 100 mi so we maybe starting the same project ,Thanxs!!

 

[cleb]

snoplay: Rear cab frame (soft top off) or thru the rear window in a hard top, to the front window frame (open window). I used a chain hoist when I did this on my 5ton, and also helping lobanz yesterday. The pipe Kenny mentioned will help you position the tranny. When I pulled the tranny in my 5 ton, I just positioned the chain hoist a little further back when taking it out, so it came out pretty easy. Going back in I just pushed on the tranny, got a couple bolts in and started cinching it down. Not that bad of a job. Its amazing how much smaller deuce parts are after working on a 5t. When I did the tranny on my 5t, I had the tranny out and on a pallet in under 2 hours (by myself).