FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[Migginsbros]

If you own a SEE, HMMH or HME Tractor please let us know.
419.101 SEE 2086 ea., 419.102 HME 13 ea., 419.103 HMMH 164 ea., 419.104 HME 153 ea.
Post name, Town, State, country, email, phone,first 9 digit of frame no. or what you think/like to build a network of
FLU419 owners.

 

[Migginsbros]

Model: 419.101 SEE
Owner: Chris
Town: Berlin
State: Berlin
Country: Germany
No.: WDB 419101

will be edited

 

[juanprado]

Welcome to the madness!

No tractor here but member amphibious has one or 2 of them. I will let him chime in.

 

[BELinNC]

HI, I own a SEE in Fayetteville, NC. email blefeve@aol.com. Great truck. Mine was rebuilt 2007 and had 100 miles on odometer.

 

[Arava]

Picked up one and working more on it more than with it.

 

[bchauvette]

Flu 419
Maurice "Buch" Chauvette
309 Old Cedar Rock Rd.
Easley SC.

can PM me for private mail.


front
Total package M944 Camper tow vehicle. 5 ton "laundry flat bed trailer". Periodically undress MOG,remove bucket and back ho!! for off road fun. Modifing MOG for quick change. 17k electric winch, Will be fabricating rear boom for off road recovery. Have 5 MRAP tires and wheel will be adapting as soon as I get the lathe from the M944 hooked up.

 

[kombisutra]

Present!

 

[bchauvette]

Kermit da MOG currenly in fun mode.

 

[kombisutra]

Question: how universal is the front loader mount plate, as in, is it a one-off mount, useful only for the Schmidt FL-4? Can anyone confirm it's versatility? How about versatility of the rear mount point? Thanks for any intel here.

Currently downloading and printing off 2000+ pages of 419 Tech/Unit Manuals -1, -2, and -34

 

[CARNAC]

Question: how universal is the front loader mount plate, as in, is it a one-off mount, useful only for the Schmidt FL-4? Can anyone confirm it's versatility? How about versatility of the rear mount point? Thanks for any intel here.

Currently downloading and printing off 2000+ pages of 419 Tech/Unit Manuals -1, -2, and -34

Are you talking about the pallet forks on the front and the crane on the back?

That's the HMMH (High Mobility Material Handler). Back in the 90's I was in a unit that had two of the HMMH's. We did not find it effective and they spent more time in maintenance than they were worth. Our attempts to move air conditioning units were not that successful. The crane took too long and the front end sagged and we had to counterweight the back using the crane. We had two M4Ks and they were used significantly more to the point the HMMH's became motorpool queens.

Intent of the HMMH was to have a forklift/light material crane capability with a speed enabling it to keep up with a road convoy so it wouldn't have to be hauled. In Desert Storm, my unit did a long range cross country test of various support equipment like various forklifts (but no HMMH). It didn't go so great. The darn forks on the M4K and extended reach lifts and 10K forklifts bouncing up and down for 100 miles.

At one point I suggested they take the extra HMMWV's floating around, and cutting them in half, articulating them, and mounting a 4K fork capability to them. Intent would be having a vehicle with the speed capability to 'keep up' and yet be a forklift. Never went anywhere, the US govt can't repurpose anything unlike the Israelis or WWII Germans. Heaven forbid if they were to do an ad hoc vehicle like the Kangaroo or JagdPanzer I.

 

[kombisutra]

Wow, interesting info on the even rarer HMMH, thanks. Unfortunately I was asking about the attatch points for the Small Emplacement Excavator. I'll keep your insight in mind when the day comes that I actually see one.

 

[bchauvette]

I believe the attach points for the bucket and back hoe are unique to the S.E.E. But well suited for fabricating and mounting an intermediate adapter plate front and rear. The PTO is taken up with the back hoe hydraulic pump so any powered equipment front and rear would have to be hydraulic driven. The bucket is powered by an engine mount pump. I find the bucket functionality a bit lack luster.



Winch mount, Don't laugh at the welding. 25 year old rod. Came with the M944.

 

[tennmogger]

I think Butch nailed it. To my knowledge there are no other implements available to fit those FL-4 brackets in place of the SEE's FL-4 loader. Unless you fabricate them.

I use an FL-4 loader (with different brackets) on the front of a 406 Unimog (non-SEE). The 4 points of contact to the FL-4 is the same on my truck as on the SEE. In other words, I think a loader off a SEE would fit my FL-4 brackets. But, the brackets themselves, and interface to the truck frame horns, are very different. The frames on the SEE's were really beefed up and that required redesign of the interfacing brackets.


From discussion on Unimog forums, the mounting for the backhoe is unique on the SEE.

A little pre-SEE history: There were possibly 6 SEE prototypes built based on the Case MB-4/94 Unimog 406 sold by Case Equipment through the '70's. My Case 580 backhoe is from one of the SEE prototypes. Those prototypes were built on the standard Case MB-4/94 Unimog 406 but used an interface adapter, just as Butch suggested.

There is another possibility to upgrade a SEE for 3 point use. The Case tractor/580 backhoe (the tractor, not Unimog or SEE) could have the backhoe removed and a 3-point "MOD Adapter" added to the rear. That adapter added a 3 point. That way the 580 tractor/machine could use 3-point implements. When Case bought 406 Unimogs, Called them Case MB-4/94 tractors, and modified them to use Case implements, the same 3-point interface was borrowed from their 580 tractor and adapted to the 'Case deck' of the 406 mog. That Mod adapter allows the 406 Unimog to use 3-point implements. BTW, these are difficult to find.

Bob

 

[kombisutra]

Very interesting. Thanks for the input, I have a Miller 625 Plasma and a Trailblazer 325. Had every intention of fabricating a number of things ...nut unlike Butch's winch mount there -will be looking forward to the "after" picture there with whatever monster winch you're gonna' mount up.

So yes, good information/confirmation, albeit, a little bit of a bummer too.

I'll have a LOT more questions and pictures soon.

Thanks

 

[bchauvette]

"The frames on the SEE's were really beefed up"

The drive shafts are inclosed in tubes to allow for radical frame twisting keeping the wheels in contact and the drive shafts aligned and engaged. This is a major UNIMOG off road capable feature. Unfortunate beefing up the frame negates this feature. But no doubt the MOG will still put a CJ to shame

The second PIC shows mounting my 17K Chinese winch (Harbor Fright) . Intended for very limited use.

 

[kombisutra]

Copy that. Is there any one thing the machine does better than other machines, like the MB 94? Sounding like the machine is an absolute orphan red headed step child begging to be kicked out of the orphanage onto the cold street! Nonetheless, I'm still determined to learn, adapt and overcome. That I have heavy fabricating ability is looking like a real plus here.

So I'm stuck in Kandahar at the moment for another 30 days until I can get to my machine and do some digging. I've bought a couple things for it. Driving it up the 600 miles from Barstow to Northern California, I blew out the right front tire. Moderately exciting, but not a problem from my experience, I had it swapped out in very short order using the loader as the jack and used the good spare it came with, but I also damaged the wheel some.

Today after confirming the condition of sidewalls with additional images, I sprang for a set of four used Michelin XL tires mounted on 6 hole FLU419 wheels for $800. After the dude calculated the shipping, the set came out just shy of $1000. Figuring I'm still not plugged into the network of dudes who have tons of this common crap that they want to get rid of, I resolved to buy the set, and I'm pretty confident I did alright. Like most 419 tires, the treads are seemingly new with zero cupping. Some might ask why pay for the wheels too? Well, the first job I've got back home has a super-low ceiling carport I need access through, and I'm planning on sacrificing the rims, wrapping and welding a plate around the rims, shodding them with 20" diameter tire caps, and thereby granting the 419 a drastically reduced -site use only- elevation -I've already removed the "FOPS" over the cab.

The other thing I bought is badazz but it's gonna' require a lot of Plasma work. I scored a 1300 Ambulance Box from the Adrift In The Green Room dude Brian in Santa Cruz, 50 miles south of my shop. Anybody who's seen it knows he cut the front of the box out for a "walk through" as he hacked the same enormous hole in his bulkhead. So it's a damaged box. Yeah, I can already hear you guys screaming... "Dude, that box is 10 feet long!" Yeah it currently is, too, and it's also about 12" too wide too. Yeah, we're talking about a lot of work, understood, but again, the plasma cutter is gonna' make an otherwise very difficult job, a lot easier and a lot faster. Cutting 3-4 feet off the length, and at least a foot out of the center... slice and dice. The three point mount system is something I'm gonna' have to see as to whether it'll even remotely adapt. Wish me luck with that, but in the mean time, I'm gonna' be stuck in THIS box with you guys, so let's chat it up... who's got the coffee?

So yeah, I'm intending on making the shorty Ambulance Box a removable tool carrier, camper, you name it, insodoing, learning how to remove some of the tanks and bed mounted hydro apparatus. It's also possible that I may just move the tanks some, and "French" the most necessary items directly into the structure of the box, boxing them from inside the box as well, and sealing them out of the interior space.

So that's what we're smoking in Northern California -er, Kandahar! How about YOU! What are YOU smoking? Don't lie!

Brian

 

[bchauvette]

If your thinking of doing something like an abulace box in the back you may have to decide if you want to permanently eliminate the back hoe function. The back hoe is some what off/on. The associated equipment like the oil tanks, hydraulic oil cooler and tools boxes are not. It would take a big effort to dismount and re mount that stuff.

Read and understand the "Cab-Tilt" procedure from the TM and the Civi manuals on this site. A big percentage of repair and maintenance requires tilting. It is a "Female dog in heat" to do. It requires things like removing the cushions, disconnecting the steering wheel shaft, opening the parking brake cable can?!?!? ect, ect. The TM is very vague on the tilt brackets. Once you are into the tilt process it will become obvious what the brackets does you can fabricate them from angle iron at that time.

 

[tennmogger]

The SEE excavators aren't "an absolute orphan red headed step child begging to be kicked out of the orphanage onto the cold street!", and I know you know that However, there are people who will try to convince us of that. Any one job might be easier with a dedicated machine, but the SEE is rather versatile for many different jobs, like a Swiss Army knife.

You will also have people tell you how hard it is to service the Unimog. That's just not true. I admit though that there is a lot of service required. There are many grease fittings and lube reservoirs on these vehicles. If maintenance is not done, as was NOT done on many of these vehicles, then they develop problems after 20 or 30 years (duh!). Repairs can be complicated on such a compact and unique machine. Once the machine is brought back to operating condition, maintenance is not bad at all.

The loader and hoe functions of the SEE (and of the MB-4/94 for which I have experience) do have some limitations. For the loader, the worst deficit is the sprung front end. As you push the loader into the load the springs will compress. It's just about impossible to level anything while pushing forward with the loader blade. It does work very well to move any loose material that is on top of a solid surface. That might be gravel dumped in a driveway or in a field, loading spoil from a trench to replace into the trench or load into a truck, or moving stuff like fire wood. I use mine often for such jobs. The MB-4/94's had available a suspension lockout device to eliminate the spring action, greatly improving front loader operation. The early SEE prototypes had hydraulic shocks that could be locked to achieve spring bypass but the SEE's do not have that, do they?

The backhoe on the SEE is a heavy duty full sized backhoe. It works well. Keep engine RPM up if you want speed. I seldom worry about hoe speed because my jobs are small. The down side of using the SEE for a backhoe is the inconvenience of moving the truck. You have to get up from the backhoe controls and climb into the cab. With a little practice, you can drag the SEE around with the backhoe, especially if you leave the loader bucket flat on the ground so it does not dig in. The hoe will lift the rear of the Unimog and swing it sideways. Once the backhoe is up on the stabilizers it will really dig. On a project like a trench you can dig continuously and shove the truck along with the boom.

Have you any of the hydraulic tools? A hydraulic chain saw is a pleasure to use. You don't need earplugs and can actually hear the teeth cut the log, a pleasant sound to me. No refueling, no chain oil (uses hydraulic oil), and no noise. It's easy to clear trees without disturbing the neighbors. Hydraulic tools used here are the chain saw, a circular cutter on a 10 ft boom (think super weedeater), and hydraulic drill/impact tool.

Here in the country I drive my MB-4/94 to the neighbors farms for projects. I remove trees, bury cows (lots of beef growers around here), prep driveways, remove stumps, etc. I don't charge them but you could. If they call anyone else to come do the job they have to pay a setup charge or transportation charge, plus hourly fee. If they rent a backhoe, the closest rental place is 10 miles away and no rental company wants their backhoe driven on the highway so they require trailering, but the SEE is made to drive on the highway! Speed limits around here range from 35 to 45 and the 406 (and SEE) will do that.

Both the front bucket and hoe are good crane substitutes. Loading trailers, moving engines, swinging logs onto a trailer are all easy. I welded chain hooks on my buckets but the SEE may already have those.

If you are a fabricator, adding a thumb to the backhoe would be a handy addition. I don't have that but sure want one eventually.

Hope this had given you some ideas.

Bob

Copy that. Is there any one thing the machine does better than other machines, like the MB 94? Sounding like the machine is an absolute orphan red headed step child begging to be kicked out of the orphanage onto the cold street! Nonetheless, I'm still determined to learn, adapt and overcome. That I have heavy fabricating ability is looking like a real plus here.

So I'm stuck in Kandahar at the moment for another 30 days until I can get to my machine and do some digging. I've bought a couple things for it. Driving it up the 600 miles from Barstow to Northern California, I blew out the right front tire. Moderately exciting, but not a problem from my experience, I had it swapped out in very short order using the loader as the jack and used the good spare it came with, but I also damaged the wheel some.

Today after confirming the condition of sidewalls with additional images, I sprang for a set of four used Michelin XL tires mounted on 6 hole FLU419 wheels for $800. After the dude calculated the shipping, the set came out just shy of $1000. Figuring I'm still not plugged into the network of dudes who have tons of this common crap that they want to get rid of, I resolved to buy the set, and I'm pretty confident I did alright. Like most 419 tires, the treads are seemingly new with zero cupping. Some might ask why pay for the wheels too? Well, the first job I've got back home has a super-low ceiling carport I need access through, and I'm planning on sacrificing the rims, wrapping and welding a plate around the rims, shodding them with 20" diameter tire caps, and thereby granting the 419 a drastically reduced -site use only- elevation -I've already removed the "FOPS" over the cab.

The other thing I bought is badazz but it's gonna' require a lot of Plasma work. I scored a 1300 Ambulance Box from the Adrift In The Green Room dude Brian in Santa Cruz, 50 miles south of my shop. Anybody who's seen it knows he cut the front of the box out for a "walk through" as he hacked the same enormous hole in his bulkhead. So it's a damaged box. Yeah, I can already hear you guys screaming... "Dude, that box is 10 feet long!" Yeah it currently is, too, and it's also about 12" too wide too. Yeah, we're talking about a lot of work, understood, but again, the plasma cutter is gonna' make an otherwise very difficult job, a lot easier and a lot faster. Cutting 3-4 feet off the length, and at least a foot out of the center... slice and dice. The three point mount system is something I'm gonna' have to see as to whether it'll even remotely adapt. Wish me luck with that, but in the mean time, I'm gonna' be stuck in THIS box with you guys, so let's chat it up... who's got the coffee?

So yeah, I'm intending on making the shorty Ambulance Box a removable tool carrier, camper, you name it, insodoing, learning how to remove some of the tanks and bed mounted hydro apparatus. It's also possible that I may just move the tanks some, and "French" the most necessary items directly into the structure of the box, boxing them from inside the box as well, and sealing them out of the interior space.

So that's what we're smoking in Northern California -er, Kandahar! How about YOU! What are YOU smoking? Don't lie!

Brian

 

[kombisutra]

Really appreciate your input both you guys. Butch, yeah, I'm aware to expect a certain challenge when learning to tilt the cab. I know in theory, they meant for the tilt feature to make engine access easier... seems the engineers got wrapped around the axle... and now I'll need to follow. I know the 1300 guy I'm getting the box from, bought a cab lifter, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to fab up one once I see his and learn what's required. Sure thing though, my command of the cab tilting procedure is on my short list of skills I'm anxious to develop as everything is under there. Fully accept and am expecting the "Female Dog In Heat" cab-tilt challenge. Currently have over 1700 pages of FLU419 User/Unit Manuals printed... still printing.

The Ambulance box project is a big one, and as much as possible, I'll attempt to keep the hydraulic functionality by installing custom HP lines as necessary to relocate required apparatus such that the usable interior space is invaded by protrusions as little as possible. If I do the box right, it will come off with crane with little fuss and allow full use of the Back hoe. That's down the road a ways. Let's see how it goes.

"The SEE excavators aren't "an absolute orphan red headed step child begging to be kicked out of the orphanage onto the cold street!", and I know you know that However, there are people who will try to convince us of that. Any one job might be easier with a dedicated machine, but the SEE is rather versatile for many different jobs, like a Swiss Army knife. "

Thanks for this post Bob, as I was really getting sick of the naysayers. Your testimonials about the practical functionality of the the hoe and loader, along with the general utility it offers is EXACTLY what I'm hoping for. I'm no municipality, I'm Brian, a handyman, and will have a lot of dirt to dig and crap to move and chicks to impress with how "hot" the Unimog looks -with, or with out it's back hoe extended! : )

Running out of battery. Great posts you guys! Thank you! I have pictures coming!

Who else out there has an FLU419 and is hiding in the closet? Tell us about it!

Brian

 

[bchauvette]

Kermit doing the squat. Taking out the lathe from the M944



The fork truck model has a locking front suspension mechanism. If I where to get really into it I would probably fabricate/invent a front suspension locking system.All it would take is two hydraulic cylinders mounted like shock absorbers. feeding into a tank with a shut off valve in the circuit. With the valves open the cylinders would "Free spool", closed the front end suspension is locked.

Phunny thing the mail man is red headed.... DAAAH-DEEEE

B.T.W. There is a good chance Kermit da Mog" will be at the rally in fun mode.