FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[The FLU farm]

Thanks, Gadget! You really helped me out with that one, twice.
Now I know what there is to work with in my pursuit of running a (front mounted) hydraulic snow blower off the rear hydraulics.
Also, you saved me from trouble shooting the low rpm on the crane - apparently it's supposed to be only 1,100, so it is actually working like it should, not at a higher rpm like I thought it would.
Again, thanks!

 

[Go Go Gadget FLU 419]

Glad I could help! Someone. Finally. I've not had much to add here, just absorbing all I can. Yea, I noticed that too, the 1.1K RPM stood out. And I'd prefer that, 2K RPM sounds like she is really sweatin', especially without the engine cover.

If I don't get rained out, looks like I'll be (spray) painting my creature today. After like 4+ hours of pressure washing all the mossy nooks and crannies yesterday. Let me tell ya, I conquered the paint flakes that day. I'd recommend glasses.

 

[73m819]

Well I got the engine to start by jumping the starter solenoid, I have heater and headlights somewhat, BUT NOTHING to the dash, no test, no blinkers, NOTHING, any ideas ?????, tested fuses, any fuse getting power carries to though.

 

[The FLU farm]

Glad I could help! Someone. Finally. I've not had much to add here, just absorbing all I can. Yea, I noticed that too, the 1.1K RPM stood out. And I'd prefer that, 2K RPM sounds like she is really sweatin', especially without the engine cover.

You just gave me another idea. I rarely use the high rpm setting when running the backhoe, since it doesn't seem to need all that much to do most jobs. Usually I set the hand throttle to about 1,200 and run on that.
Now I'll be looking into adjusting the rpm to about 1,400 to 1,600 with the switch on, which should be easier on the ears and use less fuel.

 

[The FLU farm]

Well I got the engine to start by jumping the starter solenoid, I have heater and headlights somewhat, BUT NOTHING to the dash, no test, no blinkers, NOTHING, any ideas ?????, tested fuses, any fuse getting power carries to though.

From what I recall reading, to get the "test" button to do something, the light switches have to be in a certain position, the clutch depressed, and maybe it also requires a certain moon phase. Basically, I gave up on it.
With the dash light on, my (green) PTO light comes on...when the PTO is off. And the 4WD/diff indicators light up, but not according to what the transfer case is set to. I rarely have the light switches on anyway, so no big. Besides, if I would need the lights to tell me what levers or switches I've moved, I probably shouldn't be operating the machine anyway.
Now, the gauges not working, that would bug me big time. Wish I had an answer for you, but I'm afraid I don't.
Since I'm about to resurrect the parts-SEE, I may know more in a week or two.

 

[General Hood]

Bid on and won a pallet of See / HMMH starters from GL. Now I'm asking myself why. Maybe I can do like that old Johnny Cash song "one piece at a time"

 

[The FLU farm]

Oh, now there are plenty of starters available. Where were you when I had to buy one?
Of course, it's still in the box - it turned out to be the cut-off switch that's tired.
So if you're not planning on buying a SEE for each one, how much are they?

 

[General Hood]

Oh, now there are plenty of starters available. Where were you when I had to buy one?
Of course, it's still in the box - it turned out to be the cut-off switch that's tired.
So if you're not planning on buying a SEE for each one, how much are they?

I still need to schedule a pick up date, kinda waiting to see if I win some other lots I have my eyes on before making the trip to OK City. I will send you a PM when I get home with them

 

[The FLU farm]

I still need to schedule a pick up date, kinda waiting to see if I win some other lots I have my eyes on before making the trip to OK City. I will send you a PM when I get home with them

Thanks!

 

[Go Go Gadget FLU 419]

Now I'll be looking into adjusting the rpm to about 1,400 to 1,600 with the switch on, which should be easier on the ears and use less fuel.

Heck yea. When ya do, let us know how!

 

[The FLU farm]

I'll have to take a peek on the parts SEE, it already has a 1,200 rpm high idle. And it leaks a fair amount of air, so now I know that the switch won't do anything until there's enough air pressure. Actually, it seemed like the idle went up a bit with the air pressure.

Another revelation was that after taking it for a very short drive today, the parts SEE will become the backhoe of choice, and the SEE I've been using will become the "snow mobile".
Both the loader and backhoe work much smoother and better on the parts SEE, so the quick attach mount (for plow and snow blower) will go on the regular SEE instead. And the backhoe will come off of it for winter duty.
Which means I'll have to start fixing things, such as the bent rear axle locating rods, and replace the cooler fan I robbed off of the parts SEE.

 

[General Hood]

I'll have to take a peek on the parts SEE, it already has a 1,200 rpm high idle. And it leaks a fair amount of air, so now I know that the switch won't do anything until there's enough air pressure. Actually, it seemed like the idle went up a bit with the air pressure.

Another revelation was that after taking it for a very short drive today, the parts SEE will become the backhoe of choice, and the SEE I've been using will become the "snow mobile".
Both the loader and backhoe work much smoother and better on the parts SEE, so the quick attach mount (for plow and snow blower) will go on the regular SEE instead. And the backhoe will come off of it for winter duty.
Which means I'll have to start fixing things, such as the bent rear axle locating rods, and replace the cooler fan I robbed off of the parts SEE.

You sir, are an inspiration for me to back under my SEE hood and start fixing things that need fixed....weather permitting

 

[The FLU farm]

You sir, are an inspiration for me to back under my SEE hood and start fixing things that need fixed....weather permitting

Whoa! This from the guy who painted his SEE?
But, yes, the list of things that needs attention on my (formerly) parts SEE is getting somewhat long - and that's to get in mechanically decent shape.
It was, after all, bought as a running but not fully functional SEE. That some things (like the high range, 4WD and diff locks) turned out to work although GP had them listed as non-op was dumb luck.
Also, after making my latest decision to make the (formerly) parts SEE the working backhoe one, it now matters much less that the doors won't close properly since it'll only be used in the summer time.
Not sure what the heck happened to it, but cab/roll bar/door alignments are way off.
Either way, get with it Lonnie and fix something under the hood. That way you won't be tempted to wax it, too.

 

[General Hood]

Tracing out origins of chewed wiring behind the instrument panel of a SEE can be most challenging, especially if you have big hands with arthritis setting in on the knuckles from years of abuse. I am nearing the point of ripping out the entire wiring harness and creating my own from scratch. As the cartoon character from my childhood said........

 

[peakbagger]

Some comments on the harness repair. Do yourself a big favor and build a stand for the loader and remove it. with it in place there is no good way to work from the front of the truck.

Definitely unscrew the fuse panels from the cowl and carefully remove the fuse and associated connector assembly away from the cowl. There is enough wire to have it out past the air filter. You will most likely be spending a lot of time tracing pins on the plugs that are attached to the bottom of the fuse panel. I very rarely if ever traced off the fuse lugs. At some point clean off the fuse clips with very fine grit abrasive.

The air inlet ducts need to come out and good luck trying to salvage the defroster vents . I left them off and someday if I ever need the defroster I will need to find new source of the tinfoil cardboard they use.

Go ahead and take out the gauges, once they are out its lot easier to work on the harness. The biggest PITA is getting a wrench on the nuts that hold the oil lines onto the gauge cluster, followed by getting the knurled speedo cable nut off.

You may want to disassemble the gauge cluster, there are some formerly flexible rubber boots inside the gauge that direct the light from the various blinking lights to the right spot on the dial that were all cracked up and split. I used some poly tubing to replace these. Its better than nothing but not ideal. as the tubing is milky translucent.

If your dash cover is scarred up, I believe Expedition Imports sells a replacement pad. The gauges and switches need to be out to replace it.

Make sure prior to reassembly that the harness is wire tied well away from the wiper arms that move around behind the dash.

 

[Another Ahab]

That right there are just the kinds of things a body likes to know before walking all alone into the Lion's Den.

 

[The FLU farm]

Tracing out origins of chewed wiring behind the instrument panel of a SEE can be most challenging, especially if you have big hands with arthritis setting in on the knuckles from years of abuse. I am nearing the point of ripping out the entire wiring harness and creating my own from scratch.

While I haven't had the need to fight with the wring yet, I can relate to the arthritis.
A home made harness with aftermarket gauges would likely be my plan of attack if I had to go to war behind the dash.
But that's because I'm concerned with function, not originality.

 

[General Hood]

Some comments on the harness repair. Do yourself a big favor and build a stand for the loader and remove it. with it in place there is no good way to work from the front of the truck.

Definitely unscrew the fuse panels from the cowl and carefully remove the fuse and associated connector assembly away from the cowl. There is enough wire to have it out past the air filter. You will most likely be spending a lot of time tracing pins on the plugs that are attached to the bottom of the fuse panel. I very rarely if ever traced off the fuse lugs. At some point clean off the fuse clips with very fine grit abrasive.

The air inlet ducts need to come out and good luck trying to salvage the defroster vents . I left them off and someday if I ever need the defroster I will need to find new source of the tinfoil cardboard they use.

Go ahead and take out the gauges, once they are out its lot easier to work on the harness. The biggest PITA is getting a wrench on the nuts that hold the oil lines onto the gauge cluster, followed by getting the knurled speedo cable nut off.

You may want to disassemble the gauge cluster, there are some formerly flexible rubber boots inside the gauge that direct the light from the various blinking lights to the right spot on the dial that were all cracked up and split. I used some poly tubing to replace these. Its better than nothing but not ideal. as the tubing is milky translucent.

If your dash cover is scarred up, I believe Expedition Imports sells a replacement pad. The gauges and switches need to be out to replace it.

Make sure prior to reassembly that the harness is wire tied well away from the wiper arms that move around behind the dash.

Advise is taken. From the location of the wiper relay to where the harness routes behind the fuse panels, rats chewed thru 20 wires in a bundle at a single location, making it impossible to simply match up and splice the breaks. If I can get all the electricals in working order on this machine, I deserve some kind of honorary master electrician license

 

[The FLU farm]

You have a one in 400 chance to get them all hooked up correctly without even trying to trace a single one.
If a couple of things do work afterwards, even if a switch ends up with a different function, you might get an honorary journeyman electrician license.

 

[peakbagger]

Knock on wood, I had 21 wires completely cut just about at the centerline of the dash. Several more were partially gnawed. That meant 42 ends to match up. As far I know I got them all connected and every thing works except the air filter differential pressure switch which was not high on my priority list. As long as you have the technical manual, you can go through each system diagnostic section and that will get you there 90% of the time. The fact that the cab can be tilted means that all the wiring from the cab to the chassis runs through the common electric connector rail that the fuse box is mounted to.

The best approach is to do the easy systems and work your way down to the hard stuff. I would suggest chasing the grounds first, many but not all of the grounds are run separately to a common ground point under the cowl. Most of the gauges that have lights need a ground lead so use a multimeter and the manual to find the ground terminal in each connector. You also can carefully clean off the wires coming out of the connectors looking for the white numbers on the wires. I used a bright light and magnifying lens to read the numbers. After the fact I bought the flip down jeweler type magnifiers that you wear like glasses that have an led lamp built it which would make reading those small number a lot easier. Once you find the ground screw behind the dash with all the wires terminated on it, you should find several wires attached that are gnawed off. You now can connect the known grounds on the gauges connectors with the cut off grounds. That may cut out 4 or 5 unknowns.

The five warning light switches are pretty easy to trace, one side of the light goes to ground and the other is a hot that usually runs over to a plug on the back of the fuse box. I also posted some very crude pin outs of the various connectors a while ago on one of these threads, no guarantees but I found a lot of the numbers. The exterior lighting circuits are trickier due to the darn NATO switch, the four relays on the top of wheelwell control many of the lighting circuits. Most but not all of the wiring that runs from the lighting, turn and flasher switch run over to the relays so your next job is find the right pin on the relay connector and then check continuity on the cut off wires until you find the one that lines up with number on the cut off wire from the switch connector. Initially you are going through 20 or 30 wires looking for the right one but as you reconnect each circuit the number of unknowns drops. I ended up with about 6 total wires that weren't as simple (emergency warning lights) but with some persistence I eventually figured them out.

This is not something you will do in a weekend. I can keep my sanity working on it for maybe 2 or 3 hours. I then needed a break and usually research the next circuit for a day or so before hitting it again. One of the reasons I was willing to take chance on a SEE is that there are no electronic circuits they are mostly on off switches and couple of variable resistors circuits. This type of circuit has been around for decades. Compared to the complex systems used on newer vehicles including construction equipment which use digital communication, the diagnosis and repair of this type of system is far simpler. If there was a decent set of connector diagrams with the pins numbered along with a location map I would probably prefer that to the wiring diagram ( I would gladly pay for both).