FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[BigBison]

As far as the fuel system losing prime... what I shoulda done before abandoning the SEE overnight to avoid hand-priming the next morning (at least I know that hand-primer works, now), was shut off the fuel valve. If the fuel can't drain back into the tank, it oughta stay primed, right? I just came back inside from doing this, I'll test it out when I clear all this snow tomorrow morning, after filling the low tire from the Oasis compressor on my service body... which I'll need to hotwire from the big battery charger, because of course that truck's batteries are in the SEE, now.

The final high-current electrical system on the service body will be a (small) lift-gate. The service crane will eventually be great for getting the spare tires re-mounted on the FLUs, but totally overkill for hoisting & swinging the big floor jack into the bed. I can't lift it myself, but I could drag it onto a lift-gate. Which is how I got it here from my last place -- someone else's lift-gate. Those things are awesome!

 

[peakbagger]

Progress is a good thing. If you were nearer to me I probably shouldn't give you hints so we had access to a parts truck . I guess I need to remove my fuel pressure transmitter as it does clean things up. There is service bulletin that as delivered the tubing to the transmitter would rub on the hood. The fix was to rotate it off vertical. One of the investments for my SEE was a copper crush washer assortment, metric and American. I need to pick up the same sort of kit with metric and American O rings if such a kit exists and make sure they will hold up to diesel fuel. I bought one of the EI filter kits and remember they sent a gasket for the strainer bowl but not sure if it included anything else for the strainer. I find keeping those assortment kits around the garage really saves a lot of time when I am working for something and being out in the woods even the local places don't stock much metric.

By the way there is also a service bulletin on the rear switches regarding that they will corrode and fail. Mine still work but might be worth the trouble to source a marine grade switch to replace them if they are totally non functional.

I am interested in folks tire experiences, mine are quite old except for the spare. Two of my tire stems leaked the first winter so the SEE sat on two dead tires for about 3 months. I gave "resealing a tire with ether" trick a try and it seated right back on the rim, but when I went to pressurize it, the valve stem was leaking. Its a screw on type and it was loose, I tried tightening it but it wouldn't seal. I took it apart and there is rubber gasket under the cap and that was shot ( dried out and cracked). I went down to the local car parts store and its readily available type so I now have a chrome version. On the second tire it was the same way. I would suggest if folks change tires that they proactively change these stems of at least look at the gaskets. My other two stems are holding and the tires hold air. Both stems failed on the same side of the truck so I surmise maybe that was the sunny side of the truck while it was parked for many years ? Worse case for me is I have a bead breaker so I will need to pop the beads and reach in and replace two more which means two more ether events. One of these days I really need to buy one of those air tanks style bead setters.

A bit of aside is that when I ordered the bead breaker from Northern Tool I got a very large box a few days later. In the box was the bead breaker and a rig for removing truck tires from rims. It was quite impressive and built for large tires like a SEE. Looking through the paperwork it looks like it was intended for the Indiana National Guard but sent to me at my address. I was busy at work that week so didn't try to straighten it out but a few days later I got a somewhat panicked phone call from the company that shipped it. I expect I could have tried to pull a con and kept it but they sent me a RMA and arranged a pickup so off it went.

Okay, after all the crap I gave you when your SEE wasn't running, I can understand why you wanted to rub it in that mine does not.

Actually, it did run today. For a while. First I tried removing the bleeder screw, and failed again. Following peakbagger's advice (I'm stubborn, but not that stubborn) the new filter assembly was installed. And the diagnostic gizmo on top removed, so now the correct end of a wrench, or even a socket, can be used on the banjo bolts.
In the process I found that the useless headlight guard on the useless headlight is useful for hanging useless parts on.View attachment 661783View attachment 661784

Couldn't find a suitable O-ring for the strainer, but after much bleeding and pumping, the SEE did run at 600 rpm. Eventually it ran great, so the backhoe was used to lift the rear.
Got the impact plugged in...only to remember that both the light and tool switches are frozen in off position.
Fired up the HMMH to use its hoses instead. Went over to the SEE to check the gauges only to find that it had died again. Oh, well.
Removed three wheels (what could possibly go wrong?) in preparation for wheel widening.View attachment 661785

With that part of the job finished, a quick check revealed a drop of diesel on the strainer's wing nut. That's an obvious culprit. If it doesn't snow too badly tomorrow it'll get an O-ring (didn't check the supply all that carefully) or a homemade gasket of some sort.

Then it's back to the fun and games of breaking down three more tires. Just the thought has made me consider buying a set of Interco Super Swampers, to go on stock width wheels.
I'm sick and tired of radials, and this would be the time to decide - before cutting those nice tire chains down.

 

[The FLU farm]

As far as the fuel system losing prime... what I shoulda done before abandoning the SEE overnight to avoid hand-priming the next morning (at least I know that hand-primer works, now), was shut off the fuel valve. If the fuel can't drain back into the tank, it oughta stay primed, right?

It couldn't hurt to close the valve, but in my case both the (known) leaks are/were between the valve and the engine, so fuel dripping out from the strainer would still drip out.
Other than as an anti-theft device, and to frustrate the daylights out of yourself after forgetting to open that valve, I'm not sure what it is good for. One more item to eliminate, unless someone has a valid reason for its existence.

 

[The FLU farm]

Progress is a good thing. If you were nearer to me I probably shouldn't give you hints so we had access to a parts truck . I guess I need to remove my fuel pressure transmitter as it does clean things up. There is service bulletin that as delivered the tubing to the transmitter would rub on the hood. The fix was to rotate it off vertical. One of the investments for my SEE was a copper crush washer assortment, metric and American. I need to pick up the same sort of kit with metric and American O rings if such a kit exists and make sure they will hold up to diesel fuel. I bought one of the EI filter kits and remember they sent a gasket for the strainer bowl but not sure if it included anything else for the strainer. I find keeping those assortment kits around the garage really saves a lot of time when I am working for something and being out in the woods even the local places don't stock much metric.

I am interested in folks tire experiences, mine are quite old except for the spare. Two of my tire stems leaked the first winter so the SEE sat on two dead tires for about 3 months. I gave "resealing a tire with ether" trick a try and it seated right back on the rim, but when I went to pressurize it, the valve stem was leaking. Its a screw on type and it was loose, I tried tightening it but it wouldn't seal. I took it apart and there is rubber gasket under the cap and that was shot ( dried out and cracked). I went down to the local car parts store and its readily available type so I now have a chrome version. On the second tire it was the same way. I would suggest if folks change tires that they proactively change these stems of at least look at the gaskets. My other two stems are holding and the tires hold air. Both stems failed on the same side of the truck so I surmise maybe that was the sunny side of the truck while it was parked for many years ? Worse case for me is I have a bead breaker so I will need to pop the beads and reach in and replace two more which means two more ether events. One of these days I really need to buy one of those air tanks style bead setters.

I expect I could have tried to pull a con and kept it but they sent me a RMA and arranged a pickup so off it went.

General Hood is conveniently located between us, so logistically one of his SEEs would make a better parts vehicle, don't you think?

One other advantage with eliminating that tubing over the filter is that it allows sliding the hood from the left side, without getting hung up on the forward line, and concentrating on not letting it hit the brake and clutch reservoirs.
I have a HF O-ring assortment, in addition to lots of "real" O-rings, but didn't bother looking for a correct size in that box. Who knows what they're made of.
A call to NAPA is on the list for today, and maybe a trip to town for a measly O-ring. Yes, having stuff on hand is the way to go.

I buy those metal valve stems, usually on eBay, by the bag. Except for OE rubber ones, valve stems are so crappy these days that replacing them with metal versions is near mandatory to me. If you want to save a little bit, NAPA sells "repair kits" with the rubber grommets for the metal ones.

For SEE tires, and other similar ones, I now use the very convenient drop-down leg (in up position) and a short Hi-Lift as a bead breaker.
If you're serious about getting a good bead seater setup, I'll look up the name of the one I've got. Unlike the ones with a ball valve for discharge, this one really works - twice as well, at least. Not as entertaining as starting fluid can be, but highly effective nevertheless.

And yes, sometimes it sucks to be honest, peakbagger. I know that I would've been sorely tempted to keep that bead breaker, too. Check out Extreme Outback Products for handy bead breakers.

 

[General Hood]

General Hood is conveniently located between us, so logistically one of his SEEs would make a better parts vehicle, don't you think?

One other advantage with eliminating that tubing over the filter is that it allows sliding the hood from the left side, without getting hung up on the forward line, and concentrating on not letting it hit the brake and clutch reservoirs.
I have a HF O-ring assortment, in addition to lots of "real" O-rings, but didn't bother looking for a correct size in that box. Who knows what they're made of.
A call to NAPA is on the list for today, and maybe a trip to town for a measly O-ring. Yes, having stuff on hand is the way to go.

I buy those metal valve stems, usually on eBay, by the bag. Except for OE rubber ones, valve stems are so crappy these days that replacing them with metal versions is near mandatory to me. If you want to save a little bit, NAPA sells "repair kits" with the rubber grommets for the metal ones.

For SEE tires, and other similar ones, I now use the very convenient drop-down leg (in up position) and a short Hi-Lift as a bead breaker.View attachment 661832
If you're serious about getting a good bead seater setup, I'll look up the name of the one I've got. Unlike the ones with a ball valve for discharge, this one really works - twice as well, at least. Not as entertaining as starting fluid can be, but highly effective nevertheless.

And yes, sometimes it sucks to be honest, peakbagger. I know that I would've been sorely tempted to keep that bead breaker, too. Check out Extreme Outback Products for handy bead breakers.

Thanks for the reminder, I need to check on my SEE up on the mountain. I do, however, have deterrents in place for 2 legged scavengers

 

[The FLU farm]

Thanks for the reminder, I need to check on my SEE up on the mountain. I do, however, have deterrents in place for 2 legged scavengers

Those were supposed to be deterrents?!? Guess they failed to activate as I cautiously approached on all four.

Finding the SEE was the hard part. I kept looking for a mountain in Oklahoma for days.

 

[BigBison]

SEE air pressure now comes up to 106psi, the regulator pops and everything (like the HMMH, first I've heard that noise from the SEE), but now the bleed valve on the large air tank leaks (actually started at the gas station while I was airing up the tires, when the malamute went under the truck and hit it). Is that a serviceable part, if so how, or does it need replaced?

 

[professorpg]

anyone know where to get a complete set of hydraulic hoses for an SEE. Between the Iraq sun and the Florida sun, the hoses on both the front loader and backhoe are badly cracked and a couple are leaking. (one blew all over the windshield and cab.
professorpg
Donald P. smith
pg@profpg.com

 

[peakbagger]

The best option for hoses is go to hydraulic hose shop and have them make them up. They can measure them and match them up. This will not be inexpensive but far less than buying OEM. Sometimes the hose ends can be reused which saves a lot of money sometimes they cant.

To answer the air bleed valve question is most of the time the air system is full of grit and the grit is getting stuck in the valve. If you clean out all the sir system and the tanks its highly likely that the valves will seal.

 

[The FLU farm]

SEE air pressure now comes up to 106psi, the regulator pops and everything (like the HMMH, first I've heard that noise from the SEE), but now the bleed valve on the large air tank leaks. Is that a serviceable part, if so how, or does it need replaced?

After getting a few O-rings at NAPA and getting the (formerly) parts SEE running again, I decided to remove and clean out that drain valve, again. And failed to get it to stop leaking, again. Wiggling the little "pin" around a bit can lessen the rate of the air loss, but it still leaks.
Happened to come across the fittings from the bottom of an alky reservoir and noticed that it uses the same coupler, whatever thread it is, but it has a fitting that goes to what appears to be regular DOT tubing. That means (I think) that the coupler could be adapted to most anything. Such as a small ball valve. I didn't find any fittings that matched, but next time I end up at NAPA I'll look into it.

Ended the work day by wiring in the optional temperature sensing unit to the bionic heater. It's only wired in with basic bailing wire, so the system is easily restored to stock if I change my mind about it.

Donald, I don't envy you if you need to replace all the hoses on the backhoe. On the loader it'd be easy, but some of the ones on the hoe does not look like fun.
As peakbagger said, you'd likely be better off having them made, but it'll still be costly. Faced with your situation I would buy a parts SEE with good hoses. Even if the rest of it is quite crappy, you might be money ahead.

 

[professorpg]

SEE hyd hoses

The best option for hoses is go to hydraulic hose shop and have them make them up. They can measure them and match them up. This will not be inexpensive but far less than buying OEM. Sometimes the hose ends can be reused which saves a lot of money sometimes they cant.

To answer the air bleed valve question is most of the time the air system is full of grit and the grit is getting stuck in the valve. If you clean out all the sir system and the tanks its highly likely that the valves will seal.

thank you very much for the info.
I am going to put her in the barn, strip all hoses, and shop them out.
thanks again for the info.
ps. love my Mog.

 

[BigBison]

All three air bleeders were rusty inside. I squirted some water in the tanks, but didn't get any sediment out. I soaked 'em in white vinegar, scrubbed 'em, sprayed 'em with WD-40 and re-installed with the old gaskets as I don't have any new ones. The cap for the alcohol reservoir was still painted on, so I guess no surprise the air system's got some rust inside.

Then I cleared snow with the SEE, dropping into 2WD when the pressure got too low and doing the easier parts, then putting it back in 4WD to move some snowbanks around. Engaging the diff locks doubles the air loss from the 4WD system, but tightening up the banjo bolt on the brake booster has at least stopped that leak. So I think I have two air leaks on the 4WD system. Whoever had the dashboard off last, got the 4WD indicator lights switched around, diff-lock light comes on with the handle at 3 o'clock.

 

[The FLU farm]

All three air bleeders were rusty inside. I squirted some water in the tanks, but didn't get any sediment out. I soaked 'em in white vinegar, scrubbed 'em, sprayed 'em with WD-40 and re-installed with the old gaskets as I don't have any new ones. The cap for the alcohol reservoir was still painted on, so I guess no surprise the air system's got some rust inside.

Whoever had the dashboard off last, got the 4WD indicator lights switched around, diff-lock light comes on with the handle at 3 o'clock.

Earlier today I tried an idea I got last night and basically "lapped" the leaky valve I have, much like when seating valves in a head.
Used a drill motor chucked to the little "pin" and pulled down on it while running the drill motor at full speed. Did it work? Dunno yet, but will report back next time I start the SEE.

I don't think that the alcohol injection does anything to prevent rust, at least not with alcohol in the reservoir, but that its purpose is to prevent icing in the air system.

All the FLUs I've turned on enough switches to get the indicator lights to work on have misleading lighting. Yet another reason to leave those lights disabled. The primary being that if I don't know if I've turned a switch or moved a lever I have no business operating a vehicle. Having indicator lights that (in my opinion) don't show the logical response, such as a green light for when the PTO is off) is just an irritant I can do without.
Between the useless headlights, the diagnostics system, and indicator lights, I have a lot of wires to get rid of.

Be that as it may, I thought that the diffs would lock with the handle at 1500 hours, in which case it makes perfect sense that the diff-lock light comes on then.

 

[BigBison]

Hmmm... it may be that the air lines are reversed on the 4WD valve? There's no label sticker on the SEE. It's pretty obvious when steering, whether or not the diffs are locked. I like having a handful of idiot lights, provided they function properly. As I headed into the ditch last week, the indicator light alerted me to the 4WD being out, before I found out the hard way by spinning myself into a deeper hole, so it actually did come in handy.

I got confused for a moment, but yeah, the alcohol's antifreeze, not antiwater. Overhauling rusty air valves sure makes a compelling case for adding an air drier!

 

[BigBison]

Earlier today I tried an idea I got last night and basically "lapped" the leaky valve I have, much like when seating valves in a head.

I know a guy who builds dragster motors, hot-rods Hondas, and turbocharges sleds... he's really emphatic about not using lapping compound on intake/exhaust valves. I can't see where it would hurt an air valve? I also couldn't see how to take those air valves apart to rebuild them, so I like your idea about spinning 'em with a drill. I'd use a little lapping compound for that, then flush it out as best I can, next time.

 

[The FLU farm]

Hmmm... it may be that the air lines are reversed on the 4WD valve? There's no label sticker on the SEE. It's pretty obvious when steering, whether or not the diffs are locked. I like having a handful of idiot lights, provided they function properly. As I headed into the ditch last week, the indicator light alerted me to the 4WD being out, before I found out the hard way by spinning myself into a deeper hole, so it actually did come in handy.

Turn the lever one notch for 4WD, all the way to 90 degrees for diff lock.
Apples and oranges, but I'm used to levers and feedback from the vehicle. My Jeep, in particular. Yes, if it's in 4WD it's very obvious. Did someone unlock a front hub? Usually quite easy to tell when in 4WD. Did someone unlock a rear hub? Painfully obvious...unless (under certain circumstances) in 4WD.
Now that's with Detroits front and rear. Just like my Postal Jeep, come to think of it, except it has no rear hubs, but its twin stick converted transfer case can be put into front wheel drive High and rear wheel drive Low, or vice versa, at the same time. Or front drive only, or rear drive only.
Unlike the Spicer 18 'case in my Jeep (modified to allow access to 2WD Low) which I'm intimately familiar with, I actually put the sticker that came with the Dana 300 twin stick conversion, showing what each lever's position does, on the dash.
Why? Well, the Low range lever was on the opposite side to what I was used to, and it's in a right hand drive vehicle. After a few days of driving the Postal, that sticker became useless as I had learned the new setup.
So why am I rambling on about this? Because to me the actions I take with levers (or dreaded air switches, push buttons, etc.) is what counts. If the reactions from the vehicle doesn't match what I did, something isn't right. No idiot lights required, much less desired.
Heck, to go beyond apples and oranges, my Ram has light in the gauge cluster that tells me I turned the lights on. Aaargh!!

Okay, I do occasionally look at the decals for the SEE's backhoe levers, especially after having just used the Kubota's 2-stick controls, but that's because I'm not a good operator.

 

[BigBison]

Turn the lever one notch for 4WD, all the way to 90 degrees for diff lock.

Right -- or as I say, Noon = 2WD, 3 o'clock = 4WD, 6 o'clock = diff lock -- at least in my FLUs.

Apples and oranges, but I'm used to levers and feedback from the vehicle. My Jeep, in particular. Yes, if it's in 4WD it's very obvious. Did someone unlock a front hub? Usually quite easy to tell when in 4WD. Did someone unlock a rear hub? Painfully obvious...unless (under certain circumstances) in 4WD.

Rumbling a FLU down a snowy county road at 10mph, without a dash light, how can you tell you've dropped from 4WD to 2WD with the lever at 3 o'clock? If I'd been driving along with the diffs locked for some reason, I would've noticed the lack of locker-ratcheting when I moved over for the oncoming tractor. I noticed the light going out in my peripheral vision, and it was the only indicator I had -- I was slowing down, not flooring the throttle where wheel slip woulda been noticeable.

Now that's with Detroits front and rear. Just like my Postal Jeep, come to think of it, except it has no rear hubs, but its twin stick converted transfer case can be put into front wheel drive High and rear wheel drive Low, or vice versa, at the same time. Or front drive only, or rear drive only.

Plans for my Dodge are a Fuller 6-speed, non-overdrive because there'll be a Gear Vendors OD in the transfer case, which will allow FWD, RWD, 4WD with high/low range available regardless. I will have to get out and lock the hubs, because I'll be doing away with the CAD + sealed-bearing hubs which make shift-on-the-fly work.

Unlike the Spicer 18 'case in my Jeep (modified to allow access to 2WD Low) which I'm intimately familiar with, I actually put the sticker that came with the Dana 300 twin stick conversion, showing what each lever's position does, on the dash.
Why? Well, the Low range lever was on the opposite side to what I was used to, and it's in a right hand drive vehicle. After a few days of driving the Postal, that sticker became useless as I had learned the new setup.

Now that I have a motorcycle again, I need to swap the brake levers on my bicycles. It was never a problem before, but now my brain short-circuits and it'll be easier to just have my right hand work the front brake regardless, going forward in life.

I really, really hate the parking brake on the FLUs. So easy to knock it with your knee getting in & out of the cab, causing it to release! Especially all bulked up for the cold.

 

[The FLU farm]

Right -- or as I say, Noon = 2WD, 3 o'clock = 4WD, 6 o'clock = diff lock -- at least in my FLUs.

Rumbling a FLU down a snowy county road at 10mph, without a dash light, how can you tell you've dropped from 4WD to 2WD with the lever at 3 o'clock?

I don't remember twisting my wrist any more than 90 degrees, but you may be right. Need to look at the decal set I got recently...if that one is included.

These days, knowing that the 4WD actuation is by air, I would suspect that 4WD may have disengaged when the low air pressure warning light comes on. But my FLUs feel/sound/act differently when in 4WD. Also, I've only used 4WD a handful of times, still subscribing to my Jeeping method of saving that feature for when it's really needed.

Which reminds me of why the (formerly) parts SEE was so cheap; it supposedly didn't have working Low range or 4WD. Naturally I had forgotten about that so after unloading it I was going down the driveway in Low Range, 2nd gear, as usual. When I remembered, I tried engaging 4WD, which also worked.
Later I realized that it was the leaky air tank valve that had them fooled. Why the Low range was supposed to be inoperable I never did figure out.

Anyway, please teach me how to do those helpful "multiple quotes", as you did above. Oh, and I'm a big fan of GearVendors, and the Dynatrac FreeSpin kit.

 

[Bikers33]

decal set??? Do tell where I can find those.

I don't remember twisting my wrist any more than 90 degrees, but you may be right. Need to look at the decal set I got recently...if that one is included.

These days, knowing that the 4WD actuation is by air, I would suspect that 4WD may have disengaged when the low air pressure warning light comes on. But my FLUs feel/sound/act differently when in 4WD. Also, I've only used 4WD a handful of times, still subscribing to my Jeeping method of saving that feature for when it's really needed.

Which reminds me of why the (formerly) parts SEE was so cheap; it supposedly didn't have working Low range or 4WD. Naturally I had forgotten about that so after unloading it I was going down the driveway in Low Range, 2nd gear, as usual. When I remembered, I tried engaging 4WD, which also worked.
Later I realized that it was the leaky air tank valve that had them fooled. Why the Low range was supposed to be inoperable I never did figure out.

Anyway, please teach me how to do those helpful "multiple quotes", as you did above. Oh, and I'm a big fan of GearVendors, and the Dynatrac FreeSpin kit.

 

[Another Ahab]

Anyway, please teach me how to do those helpful "multiple quotes", as you did above. Oh, and I'm a big fan of GearVendors, and the Dynatrac FreeSpin kit.

- First, select on the graphic (quotation mark inside a dialog box with a plus-sign), at the bottom right of each post that you want to include (and in the sequential order that you want them to appear). Up to the one you want to reply to.

If you hover on that graphic, you'll see it says "multi-quote this message" (Hover means: park your curser on the graphic until the curser turns into a gloved hand with a pointing finger, shortly after that the description will pop up near the pointing finger).

- Second, select "Reply with Quote" of the post you want to reply to.

You should then see all the posts that you selected on your screen available to you for editing, and then just go at it from there.

I might not have explained this real clearly, but if you say it out loud to yourself as you follow it, it might be a little more clear to you than just reading it and trying to do it.

Let me know if something's not clear (I might have left out a step or something).