Front axle seals and boots stepXstep

[Valence]

Several questions here as I can't seem to find the answer in the TM and/or don't know the right words to search for on the forum...

1. Why is there grease on the INSIDE of the drum assembly?


2. Similar to #1, why was there grease on the spindle (the yellow)? I can't ascertain as to WHAT they were greasing (just catching dust?), and with the previous army mechanic's finger marks in the grease still visible, it couldn't have actually been touching anything...

This TM says to remove the grease from the spindle (step 3):


3. I purchased a seal & boot kit similar to (just without the gaskets)
http://www.bigmikesmotorpool.com/co...et-and-seal-kit-w-gold-zipper-boots-for-m35a2

I've replaced the inner-axle oil seal (the one that separates the U-joint from the axle tube):


I've replaced this seal for the inner bearing,


But where does the "third" seal go?

I obviously don't understand the terminology here as I don't see the TM talking about it (I'm reading in the Maintenance TM, part 2, "TM9-2320-209-20-3-2"), and I can't find pictures for it both here and numerous other folk's threads.

Thanks!

 

[welldigger]

Several questions here as I can't seem to find the answer in the TM and/or don't know the right words to search for on the forum...

1. Why is there grease on the INSIDE of the drum assembly?
View attachment 547930

2. Similar to #1, why was there grease on the spindle (the yellow)? I can't ascertain as to WHAT they were greasing (just catching dust?), and with the previous army mechanic's finger marks in the grease still visible, it couldn't have actually been touching anything...
View attachment 547931
This TM says to remove the grease from the spindle (step 3):
View attachment 547935

3. I purchased a seal & boot kit similar to (just without the gaskets)
http://www.bigmikesmotorpool.com/co...et-and-seal-kit-w-gold-zipper-boots-for-m35a2

I've replaced the inner-axle oil seal (the one that separates the U-joint from the axle tube):
View attachment 547934

I've replaced and this seal for the inner bearing,
View attachment 547932

But where does the "third" seal go?

I obviously don't understand the terminology here as I don't see the TM talking about it (I'm reading in the Maintenance TM, part 2, "TM9-2320-209-20-3-2"), and I can't find pictures for it both here and numerous other folk's threads.

Thanks!

1. The grease inside the hub is extra grease for the wheel bearings.

2. I like to put a light coat of grease on the spindle just for rust prevention. There isn't anything that rotates on the spindle so it doesn't need to be lubed.

3. The outer seal goes on after the outer wheel bearing is put on. It isn't necessary on the steer axle but it is needed on the 2 rear drive axles.

 

[Valence]

1. The grease inside the hub is extra grease for the wheel bearings.

2. I like to put a light coat of grease on the spindle just for rust prevention. There isn't anything that rotates on the spindle so it doesn't need to be lubed.

3. The outer seal goes on after the outer wheel bearing is put on. It isn't necessary on the steer axle but it is needed on the 2 rear drive axles.

Mr. welldigger to the rescue again. Thank you, thank you, and thank you for all 3 answers. The rust prevention is a good point for the spindle, and my truck didn't have the outer seal, no wonder I couldn't find it.


Since I have the outer seal, and if I decided to put it on, I assume I would put it on BEFORE the lock nut pair? Oriented which way (rubber lip inward toward axle, or outward toward cap)?

 

[ke5eua]

I put about two tubes inside the spindle on mine (5 ton 81 when I did my seals. I like knowing there is grease in there for the other side of the bearings, and if the seal were to fail the grease will act as a barrier for that section.

 

[welldigger]

Mr. welldigger to the rescue again. Thank you, thank, and thank you for all 3 answers. The rust prevention is a good point for the spindle, and my truck didn't have the outer seal, no wonder I couldn't find it.


Since I have the outer seal, and if I decided to put it on, I assume I would put it on BEFORE the lock nut pair? Oriented which way (rubber lip inward toward axle, or outward toward cap)?

Yes, put the hub assembly on, then outer bearing, then seal, then the first lock nut.

The rubber lip on the seal should face the bearing.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Check and see if your u-joint has cap seals or not. Some do not have seals for the caps and they DO still need a grease bath. If you install the outer seal on the front axle you will kick yourself for it later. It is a waste of a good seal where it isn't needed, and just adds more to deal with later that shouldn't be there. Leave it out.

 

[Valence]

Check and see if your u-joint has cap seals or not. Some do not have seals for the caps and they DO still need a grease bath..

I will admit that I would not be able to identify a sealed or non-sealed u-joint. (In the process of having my brother "learn me" on this subject...)

The u-joints were surrounded in grease before (in the joint itself and inside the knuckle). I removed all of the old grease in the knuckle and the u-joint and refilled both with new grease.

Previous:


Now:

If you install the outer seal on the front axle you will kick yourself for it later. It is a waste of a good seal where it isn't needed, and just adds more to deal with later that shouldn't be there. Leave it out.

Thanks for helping me mull this over. I was thinking "Well, it wasn't there before and was PERFECTLY fine. I should be fine still w/o it..."

 

[mhb285]

Anybody know where to find a copy of the .pdf that Banshee365 put together for this? It's not in the Tech section.
Thanks
Mike

 

[doghead]

Post #74

 

[Valence]

A few important tips I learned from doing this (warning: may not actually be right, just my observations as I had little to no previous experience to draw on):

When disconnecting the passenger/driver flexible brake lines from the hard lines, there are actually 3 points: the hex end on the flexible brake line; then the nut that *only* clamps the flexible line in place; and then the free spinning end of the hard line (which may be rusted in place). Do not make the mistake of turning the flexible line with a wrench on the nut on the back side of the mount point, as the hard line is still attached and you'll break it like I did. I had thought that nut WAS the end attached to the hard line. Very wrong.




When torquing the outer spindle nut, if the inner nut turns too, you should discard the tabbed lock washer as it *should* have had a tab to sit in the spindle keyway to prevent this.

After the spindle nuts are in place but BEFORE the hub has been put on, there IS a noticeable (but very tiny) *tick* or vertical back and forth movement to the tire allowed by the bearings (as was mentioned previously by other very helpful members). Once the hub is torqued down, it must restrict movement enough that there is not enough movement that human strength (or the lack of it) can detect.

Proper wheel bearing preload was easier to determine if the brake shoes were NOT moved out to where they slightly drag on the brake drum. There was a bit of a chicken before the egg issue here for me. I found I wanted the tire on to properly adjust the bearing preload, but I wanted the tire OFF to more easily see and adjust the brakes but I didn't want any brake drag when trying to determine when the "wheel binds". So what I did was:

1. Over tighten the inner nut to ensure the brake drum was properly aligned.
2. Adjusted the brakes without the shoes dragging.
3. Mount the tire.
4. Set the bearing preload.
5. Torque down the hub.
6. Finally, adjusted the shoes until they drug slightly.

Even after the tire was back on I was able to adjust the brake shoes out until I could just hear them dragging and I did not need to do it earlier - this did require a very quiet garage as I could hear the brake shoes drag loooong before I could feel it with the tire & wheel fully reassembled.


All the grease and moving axle adds rotating resistance, and once the tire and hub are are mounted it will spin axle, differential, and everything and give the appearance of a too tightly loaded wheel bearings as the tire does not spin very freely - less than 2 revolutions before stopping when spun hard by hand.

 

[Floridianson]

Just a little tec tip you don't have to remove the brake lines. Just remove backing plate with the flex line hooked up and hang the whole thing from the grab handle on the frame.

 

[welldigger]

Just a little tec tip you don't have to remove the brake lines. Just remove backing plate with the flex line hooked up and hang the whole thing from the grab handle on the frame.

Yup. Beats bleeding the brakes just to change an axle boot.

 

[Valence]

Just a little tec tip you don't have to remove the brake lines. Just remove backing plate with the flex line hooked up and hang the whole thing from the grab handle on the frame.

Not sure I follow. Just keep the hose and wheel (brake) cylinder attached to the plate with the brake shoes and hang the plate from that handle on the frame?

I was rebuilding the wheel cylinders too though - and decided it was the proper time to upgrade to peashooter's braided stainless steel flex lines...
(ever try to do "too" many things at once? Lol)

 

[clinto]

Not sure I follow. Just keep the hose and wheel (brake) cylinder attached to the plate with the brake shoes and hang the plate from that handle on the frame?

I was rebuilding the wheel cylinders too though - and decided it was the proper time to upgrade to peashooter's braided stainless steel flex lines...
(ever try to do "too" many things at once? Lol)

 

[Valence]

View attachment 550903View attachment 550904

Genius.

 

[Floridianson]

Yea inless you are doing wheel cylinders or super cleaning for paint then just hang them. Also you don't have to remove the tie rod inless you need to replace the ball joints. You can remove the knuckle with the tie rod left on just wrap the one knuckle in something to protect it since it will be on the ground and moveing around alittle when you are droping the outher side off.

 

[Floridianson]

Don't forget this rides on a bushing inside of the spindel so put some grease here and a little inside of the spindel housing on install of spindel.

 

[Valence]

Don't forget this rides on a bushing inside of the spindel so put some grease here and a little inside of the spindel housing on install of spindel.

Yes - thank you. Fortunately I noticed the bushing on the inside of the spindle - same style of bushing as the king pins with little grease channels. I couldn't find any spec on that bushing's wear limits so since my king pins were also fine I just didn't worry about it (and the bushing was inset far enough my calipers couldn't reach it to measure it anyway).

 

[Yarz]

I'm in the middle of replacing the seals and boots and wheel cylinders on my front axle. This writeup has been AWESOME! Thank you!

Everything has been going well, and exactly as described in the directions. However, when I started cleaning everything up, I noticed 3 things:

1) I forgot to buy RTV for the axle seal retainer installation.
2) I forgot to buy the spindle to hub gasket. I'd just use RTV, but see #1..
3) This is the biggest issue. My driver's side axle has no thrust washers on it.
Driver's side: vs. Passenger's

The spindle side of the axle even has some slight damage from not having the washer, so I'd definitely like to put them in, if possible.


Does anyone know where I can get the thrust washers? And I assume they are just pressed onto the axle?

 

[Yarz]

I may have found a source for the washers: Redbarncustoms.net.
I'm going to hopefully call them tomorrow.

I can't seem to find the knuckle to spindle gaskets now either. I'm going to ask red barn when I call. Otherwise, I may just end up using RTV.