Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

[86M10086.2L]

I may be in the market for a Multifuel M35 W/W. A guy I know has one that he's looking to get rid of because he just does't have the time for it anymore. My question is, how much does the fuel economy/power change when they're run on say gasoline or kerosine? My father had a multifuel duece with a shelter while he was in the service over in Germany. He was the sqaudron welder and had his own truck with complete generator/welder, torches ande generator trailer. He told me the entire time he was in. He/Army ran it on gasoline. He was part of the 2nd Armored calvalry and he told me they tried to kept all the diesel for the tanks and tank retrievers. Plus all the welders and generators he used were gas as well so it simplified things. Only once on a trip from Amberg to Nuremburg did it get run on diesel. With fuel costs the way they are I would think gas would be a far more attractive option. Especially if you drive these trucks alot. Am I missing something? Are they underpowered on gas? Severely fuel inefficient? Are there fuel system lubrication issues? Does running gas clean everything out and clog the filters like when switching over to biodiesel? Just trying to do some research before I buy. I don't want to go in with false expectations of what the truck can or can't do.

 

[bmH1065]

When I was in the Army, we never ran ours on gasoline, as it was hard on the IP. Did run them on JP4 some. In my pu, I have run it on kerosine when it was real cold but never kept track of mileage but left it ideling a lot anyway.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I may be in the market for a Multifuel M35 W/W. A guy I know has one that he's looking to get rid of because he just does't have the time for it anymore. My question is, how much does the fuel economy/power change when they're run on say gasoline or kerosine? My father had a multifuel duece with a shelter while he was in the service over in Germany. He was the sqaudron welder and had his own truck with complete generator/welder, torches ande generator trailer. He told me the entire time he was in. He/Army ran it on gasoline. He was part of the 2nd Armored calvalry and he told me they tried to kept all the diesel for the tanks and tank retrievers. Plus all the welders and generators he used were gas as well so it simplified things. Only once on a trip from Amberg to Nuremburg did it get run on diesel. With fuel costs the way they are I would think gas would be a far more attractive option. Especially if you drive these trucks alot. Am I missing something? Are they underpowered on gas? Severely fuel inefficient? Are there fuel system lubrication issues? Does running gas clean everything out and clog the filters like when switching over to biodiesel? Just trying to do some research before I buy. I don't want to go in with false expectations of what the truck can or can't do.

With gasoline you have to mix in a percentage of 30 weight or greater motor oil for lubrication purposes for injector pump: the ratio is normally 1 quart for every 15 or 20 gallons of gasoline. You wouldn't want to run straight Kerosene either becuase it too is little low the lubrication side. So I would mix in the oil just like gasoline.

Now by Bio-Diesel has some interesting properties: 1) it delivers a high level of lubrication that normal diesel; 2) it is a solvent so it tends to clean the fuel lines out; 3) it has a built in oxidizer which means that it starts better in cold weather and smokes less under a load this do to the methly-ester compound group it has with a free oxygen radical. Down side of this free oxygen atom floating around is that it wants to bond to something i.e oxides rapidly. So if you can store diesel for decades in a drum Bio-Diesel has a shelf life of about 6-12 months depending on exposure. 4) Bio-Diesel has a slightly low BTU rating than petroleum based diesel, about 12,500 BTU's less. This doesn't really mean much. You won't actually notice any loss in power for the most part.

That being said the manual states 5-6 mpg for the LD-465-1C or LDT-465-1C (Turbo) and 5.1 to 6.1 for the LDT-465-1D (Turbo non-whistler).

Will Bio-diesel give you better fuel consumption? Well it has the potential to, in the sense that for a given volume of fuel being burned the built in oxidizer of Bio-Diesel allows for more complete burning of the fuel. So the gas will expand less violently because it lacks the energy but you'll produce more of it the cylinder head due to more complete combustion.

I plan on running my truck on Bio-Diesel... I also plan on modifying the engine heavily so I produce 250-275hp and 500-650ft-lbs of torque all on bio-diesel.

 

[Floridianson]

That being said the manual states 5-6 mpg for the LD-465-1C or LDT-465-1C (Turbo) and 5.1 to 6.1 for the LDT-465-1D (Turbo non-whistler).

I found the gph but can't find the mpg. Do you have the TM#? Thanks

 

[Jakob]

RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

I ran a 50/50 mix of diesel and WMO on the interstate at 50mph and averaged about 8.5 mpg.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

I've heard that with WMO you get better power

 

[Jakob]

Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

I've heard that with WMO you get better power

I haven't taken a long trip on straight diesel to compare my mileage, I just know what I get on 50/50 WMO (that's all I run).

 

[CCATLETT1984]

RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

you get way more power from ATF

 

[Jake0147]

RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

Too much gasoline in the mix costs power and performance, fuel mileage goes in the toilet (not really, but 9ish drops to 7ish, and the percentage near as I can figure was still only on the order of 25% gasoline. There are issues with the IP, but it's more medium to long term and (more than likely) can be eliminated with adequate supplemental lubrication. I didn't plug any filters, but I did plug the drain on the primary so that it wouldn't drain. FWIW, I never had that happen before, but I can't call it a "long term study" either. Used oil has loads of horsepower in it. Mine really likes ATF...

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

I'm afraid to run ATF because of the color. I've heard if you get stopped and checked it's hard to explain that you're running ATF and not off-road diesel.

 

[WillWagner]

RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

I run a mix of gas/diesel, with a bit of oil on a regular basis. I get around 10 MPG on long trips, 9 in the city. If there is too much gas in the mix, it gets hard to start and runs funny at idle...it lopes like it has a failed ICV and the power and fuel mileage goes in the toilet as mentioned above. Other than that, there has been no issues in 8k miles.

 

[ida34]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

I'm afraid to run ATF because of the color. I've heard if you get stopped and checked it's hard to explain that you're running ATF and not off-road diesel.

It does not really matter, you are still using untaxed fuel. States are different but I think most allow a specific amount of untaxed fuel made by the user such as bio diesel. They could probably get us for using motor oil and not paying tax. If you use or make over the limit specified by your states law then you are supposed to pay the taxes on whatever you are using for fuel. I could see how the ATF might look like off road dye. They point is, the dye is not the primary problem. The primary problem is not paying the taxes. That said, I do not plan to send in tax on my WMO or my WVO used for fuel.

 

[cranetruck]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

The MPG for the multifuel engine is pretty much directly related to the BTU value of the fuel, which is easy to look up on the net, #2 diesel gives you more miles than biodiesel, for example.

 

[Jake0147]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

I'm afraid to run ATF because of the color. I've heard if you get stopped and checked it's hard to explain that you're running ATF and not off-road diesel.

I dunno how hard that would be to explain. ATF is a very common "old school" thing to throw into your diesel tank, they've definately heard it before. The reds are not the same by any means, and the mention of it might strike something with them. And I don't think they'd be that hard to convince anyhow, as it's a truck that is (presumably) registered as a diesel, yet is running on an un-taxed fuel either way... Hence I've revised my thinking to assume myself guilty if the tank contains anything but taxed number two...
Now, as far as just getting somebody's attention on a first look, to prompt them to do further investigation into what's in your fuel tank? It might not be red, but I havn't found anything that I could stick in there (besides diesel) that really looks like diesel.

 

[5tonpuller]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuels

I get 4-6 mpg on home made Bio. Of course when you use the crane or winch's a lot it kinda dumps the fuel MPG.

 

[Dodgeman1941]

I have run a 60/40 mix of diesel and used hyd oil. I don't have hard numbers but it seems to me that I have used less fuel for the same trip that I have run before. That would be logical considering that the comp would detect the thicker fuel and lean it out some. I'm thinking about running 50/50 {or more oil} e-85 / hyd oil. Around here e-85 is around $3.25 a gallon and I would think that the high % of oil would certainly make up for anything that the e-85 is missing. A 50/50 mix would put we in the neighborhood of $1.65 a gallon.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

That being said the manual states 5-6 mpg for the LD-465-1C or LDT-465-1C (Turbo) and 5.1 to 6.1 for the LDT-465-1D (Turbo non-whistler).

I found the gph but can't find the mpg. Do you have the TM#? Thanks

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=22214

*ARMY TM 9-2320-361-10

This one has it.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative fuel

The MPG for the multifuel engine is pretty much directly related to the BTU value of the fuel, which is easy to look up on the net, #2 diesel gives you more miles than biodiesel, for example.

Energy density is the key, the more power you pack into a cc or cubic inch of fluid injected into the engine the more return you get for the fuel in power. Now this can be offset by efficiency of course. If you increase the thermal efficiency of the engine you can turn a lower energy density fuel into a better producing power-plant.

When it comes to bio-diesel you'll get anywhere between 117,000-120,000 btu's but with a greater oxygen content so the fuel burns easily and more completely. The answer is to figure out how to get the perfect mixture of fuel, air and perhaps a BTU booster like Methanol into the mix. An intercooler, water -methanol injection kit you could bring the BTU's capacity of the engine up to 130,000 or more if properly done, this could be adding 20-30 extra horsepower to your engine. Of course this will destroy fuel economy...

However, if you use a moderate amount of MW-50 in the right proportion to the fuel mixture instead of seeing massive horsepower gains, you'll see moderate ones with increases in fuel economy. Of course this might meaning tooting around 50-120 gallons of water-methanol for extended journeys.

Another option is to use something like propane or NOS injection in conjunction with WM-50, now this will really crank up the power, but only for limited applications. Perhaps that is all that is needed in most cases. Say bumming up from 115hp on regular Bio to 140-145hp when starting off with a heavy load on 31 degree grade. Once you get it started you might not need 140hp to keep it moving.

Another way to go is get a transmission with more gears in it... a 8LL not the 16908ll but the older 14908ll series transmissions could provide the user with a more useful gear range thus augmenting the lower-power through the use of greater mechanical advantage and a steeper gear increase over a longer range.

 

[Jakob]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternative

How would the E85 react in our engines? Is there anything in the system that it can deteriorate?

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Fuel Economy of Alternat

How would the E85 react in our engines? Is there anything in the system that it can deteriorate?

It doesn't lubricate as well so that is a problem.