Fuel Filter Replacement

[Wreckclues]

Was having problems running my M813, couldn't keep it going without cracking the throttle and then it would stall out. Assumed the issue was air leaking into the large canister filter so I replaced it with a WIX 33528 fuel filter and 33405 Fuel/Water Separator. Problem is the 24770 Filter base doesn't line up uniformly leading to the following rube-Goldberg rig incorporating 1/4 inch steel bar, an aluminum block and the existing canister mount from the truck.
But the problem persisted, after replacing all the fuel lines figured out that the pickup tube in the tank had rotted out. Somehow a steel pickup tube had been installed.
With a new "copper" pickup tube installed the truck will now idle at 450rpm all day long. However I still have a hesitation in the accelerator.
Could this be a fuel volume issue? Noticed the spin on kit that Big Mike sells uses a Baldwin BF 7587 filter, which appears to be larger volume that the WIX 33528.

 

[87cr250r]

Not to be a negative Nancy but that's a lot of pipe goo on those fittings. Use Loctite 545 or equivalent in the future or better, housings with o-ring boss ports.

Copper was not a preferred material for diesel fuel systems due to bad interactions with the sulfur in the fuel. With ULSD I would not be concerned anymore.

Funny story, we stopped running Baldwins on our John Deere 6081 engines because they had a defect in the design that let air in to the fuel system.

Without knowing the specifics of your engine, your filters should not be staged in series like that. The primary filter is typically on the suction side of the lift pump and the secondary filter is between the lift pump and injection pump.

With new filters the restrictions are minimal so the size of the can shouldn't be an issue provided the filters are positioned correctly in the system.

 

[Superthermal]

The M813 has only a lift pump. So in this instance both filters being run in series is fine. Only a suction tube in the tank, line from the tank to the filters and then onto the pump.
I have been looking to swap my canister filter out and am still not sure to what fitting is on the top of the 78 gallon fuel tank pick up tube and the return fittings up on the motor and the return on the tank. I haven't pulled my rig out for a few weeks now and haven't taken those notes down. Any chime in would be helpful.

 

[87cr250r]

The primary filter goes on the suction side of the lift pump, secondary filter goes on the discharge side of the lift pump.

 

[Superthermal]

The primary filter goes on the suction side of the lift pump, secondary filter goes on the discharge side of the lift pump.

In each of the installations I have viewed on M809 series and M900 series, I see one, two or even three filters run in series in the stock location between the tank and the lift pump. I have not seen any pictures or description of a filter post lift pump. I do see the benefit of doing a final filter that would catch any debris coming from the pump and saving the injectors from any harm.
The WIX fuel filters have a BURST pressure of 203 PSI which is around the rail (after pump) pressure I was looking to run with a smaller number button on the pump. I think for now I will stick to pre-lift pump filter options but am curious to what others are using for a post pump filter.
Can anyone chime in to show how this was done on a NHC 250 M813?

 

[US6x4]

Maybe I'm old school but I still prefer my stock canister fuel filter. It's far more robust and less susceptible to damage (think branches/ brush) than a thin spin on filter.

Also, I don't think an M809 truck has a lift pump to suck from the tank and send to the injection pump. It only has the injection pump that does all of the sucking action. The M816 and M818 may have a transfer pump

 

[charlesmann]

@Superthermal

You talking about the A1 939 series not having a filter after the lift pump? The A2 has a block mounted filter post lift pump and of course the fender mounted between tank and pump.

 

[87cr250r]

Whatever you do, don't suck through a secondary filter. The restriction is too high.

 

[Superthermal]

Thanks for the chime in. Since we are talking fuel system parts I never got any traction on the size of the return line.
Stock line sizes are 1/2 supply and 3/8 return.

Fuel fitting size...

So this week I gots lots of fun things happening. Oil filter base adapter (if it shows up in the mail), paint touchups and a fuel filter base mod. The new base is a Fleetguard 142784S with a LF1212 filter. My question is I know the filter base side is 7/8-14 or -10AN ORB, the truck fuel lines...

www.steelsoldiers.com

If I update my supply lines with 10AN fittings and 5/8" fuel line is it OK to do the same for the return... i.e. to have 5/8" for the return to the tanks 3/8 SAE fitting?
My questions would be: If there is a restriction on the far end of the return, i.e. the stock 3/8 fitting on the tank, is having a larger volume (due to the 5/8 hose line size) of fuel at the "return pressure" (which I am guessing is very low), will this cause a slower drop time to idle because the return has more fuel volume in the return?
Is there something else that needs to be considered on the return line size?

 

[87cr250r]

Is this a pressure-timed system? The governor controls engine power by fuel pressure. For these engines, restriction on the return line can cause s runaway so it would make sense that a restricted return would prevent the engine from returning to idle

 

[Wreckclues]

Not to be a negative Nancy but ...

Not negative at all, will likely take your advice once I figure out the hesitation. The goop you see was part of the diagnostics. After replacing the filter, the problem persisted prompting gooping every conceivable air ingress, then I replaced the fuel lines and finally found the culprit after cracking open the fuel tank.

 

[Superthermal]

Maybe I'm old school but I still prefer my stock canister fuel filter. It's far more robust and less susceptible to damage (think branches/ brush) than a thin spin on filter.

Took my "old school" stock canister off today and it did have a bit of garbage at the bottom in the catch area but all in all was very nice. It cleaned up in just a few minutes and I started thinking I will spend my money on something else rather that replacing what looks to be working great. I have been told that the old housing can be a source of air getting into the fuel system so I will need to be careful about that. But thanks for the nudge that maybe my stock setup might be suiting my needs just fine. Took some pics too.

Superthermal's M813 Build, THE BOT

Had been looking for some time for an M813 with winch. Not much luck and was always behind another buyer it seemed. Finally found one in decent shape and an excellent price but on the other side of the US from me. The rig was located near Detroit. I know that is a long ways away but I bought...

www.steelsoldiers.com

[/QUOTE]

 

[87cr250r]

If the old housing is letting air in you simply need to renew the seals. Use Viton where you can.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

The FB1311 base allows for dual inline filters.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00171NUR6

I already bought them, and the filters, and plan on running AN10 line/fittings.

The only caveat is that filtration ability is inversely proportional to flow, so putting 2 filters in parallel instead of in series might be better for long term.

BF1212 is water separating filter that is rated at 210gph. The lift pump on an 8.3L is rated for 52.8 GPH ... so more than enough overhead if you wanted to do it in series. The NHC250 pump flow rate is a little higher, IIRC, but still should be fine if you wanted to do 2 filters in series.

Up side of 2 filters in series is you can filter in stages, eg a 20 micron and a 5 micron. The fine filters are expensive so using a cheap filter to soak up the big junk first will save filters. Down side is, if it's clogged, you're guessing which one unless you have pressure gauge on each one.

Parallel filters allow more flow, and will self-regulate in terms of if one filter gets a little more clogged, then more fuel will flow through the one with less restrictions, until that one gets a tiny more clogged, and back and forth until both are equally full.

 

[5 Ton John]

The FB1311 base allows for dual inline filters.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00171NUR6

I already bought them, and the filters, and plan on running AN10 line/fittings.

The only caveat is that filtration ability is inversely proportional to flow, so putting 2 filters in parallel instead of in series might be better for long term.

BF1212 is water separating filter that is rated at 210gph. The lift pump on an 8.3L is rated for 52.8 GPH ... so more than enough overhead if you wanted to do it in series. The NHC250 pump flow rate is a little higher, IIRC, but still should be fine if you wanted to do 2 filters in series.

Up side of 2 filters in series is you can filter in stages, eg a 20 micron and a 5 micron. The fine filters are expensive so using a cheap filter to soak up the big junk first will save filters. Down side is, if it's clogged, you're guessing which one unless you have pressure gauge on each one.

Parallel filters allow more flow, and will self-regulate in terms of if one filter gets a little more clogged, then more fuel will flow through the one with less restrictions, until that one gets a tiny more clogged, and back and forth until both are equally full.

Have you ever installed filters in parallel on a 800 series truck? If so I would be interested in some of the details about that installation.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Have you ever installed filters in parallel on a 800 series truck? If so I would be interested in some of the details about that installation.

Yes and no.

My M934 had same layout and engine, so it would be identical in terms of filtration, but I don't have pics of what I did years ago. I used a different base back then.

I'll grab pics of what I do on my 923A2, which will be slightly different....but same general concept applies.

 

[5 Ton John]

Yes and no.

My M934 had same layout and engine, so it would be identical in terms of filtration, but I don't have pics of what I did years ago. I used a different base back then.

I'll grab pics of what I do on my 923A2, which will be slightly different....but same general concept applies.

Thanks. I would appreciate that. I'm considering doing that just to add a little more flow and filtration to my truck since the tank on it isn't in the best shape.