Fuel sticker violation in NC

[deuceaid]

The key word is UNREASONABLE.

You may not like it.. but is it reasonable?

Remember.. you must know every law ever written, every ordinance, rule, regulation, administrative ruling and court precedent not only the black letter law, but the spirit and intent.... so.. with all that knowledge you should have a good grasp of what is reasonable.

thats why I went down to the DMV,,, and paid 5 dollars tor the vehicular lawbook,,,,,,,, Cops run scared when you pull that out of your bag og tricks... and debate them,,, those effers chose to battle me on a heath and safty code........... shound have chew them out,,,, aside from the beer kegs/empty as they were....

 

[Yohan]

Just an interesting side on probable cause to stop a vehicle and not trying to get off-topic on a great thread... My wife had all of our children in our pick up and was pulled over in front of my work by a deputy. He asked her if she knew why he was pulilng her over. She said she had no idea as the truck's reg. and inspection was up to date and she was not speeding.

He told her he saw several children in the vehicle and stopped her to make sure they were all buckled and car-seated properly! Mind you, my kids were all buckled and they had not been bouncing/crawling around in the truck prior to the stop. Amazing. So, by that rational, he should be pulling over every car with a trunk to make sure there isn't a dead body or kilos of coke in it- the PC being the car's trunk, which is capable of holding a dead body or kilos of cocaine!

My wife called me after the stop and asked me if I saw the V&T from my office. I did see it from my office window, but payed no mind to it while it was happening. Thankfully, we have a gubment that strives to keep us safe, in spite of the Constitution. I'm not bashing the deputy. I know him and he is a nice guy, but he has seriously missed the boat on PC.

 

[lino]

Well, this thread has been quiet for a while, but I thought I'd post my findings on the topic subject.

I'm in NC, and when I got my weighted plates (26000#, max non-CDL, and about as much as I'd ever load the deuce anyway) I was looking at the registration and it says that I need an IFTA fuel sticker if I'm over 26k OR have 3 axles regardless of weight. So I started searching and found this thread...

You can look up the laws on your own, and certainly don't take my comments here as anything resembling legal advice. But essentially, being commercial or not isn't relevant here. RVs are exempt but I don't have an M109, so I can't even attempt that one.

So I started calling the DMV and Excise Tax division of DOR for clarification. After hours on the phone, I can assure you that light, 3 axle vehicles must be confusing. I was transferred to: DMV, DOL, DOR, the head of NC inspection stations, the crimes department, and then started back over again with the DOR...

What I found was that I do need the stickers (3 axles, any weight is pretty plain English). If I get INTRAstate stickers, there is no fee, no quarterly reporting, and little trouble. INTERstate tags, require logs, reporting, fees, audits, and other mess. Since any interstate travel in my deuce will be exceedingly rare, INTRAstate decals will do me well and I can get a trip permit for out of state travel if I really want to go by the book.

So, I went into the DOR today to apply and get stickers. Same drill as on the phone...
"We can't give you stickers unless you increase the weight of your vehicle over 26001." "Then I'll need CDL", "yessir". When I stated (nicely) that I didn't think that was correct, I was sent 2 blocks away to DMV who told me that was all wrong and that I should just get stickers. Happily they called them (DOR) and explained. However as I was leaving, they (DMV) told me that I needed to get a DOT number as well...

So I went back to DOR to wait in line again. This time I bounced through two more people. Fortunately the last one happened to be the same woman I talked to on the phone at the end of my phone saga. She knew what she was talking about.
I DO NOT need a DOT number (and certainly don't need that can of worms for a non-commercial vehicle), I DO need the fuel decals, but intrastate stickers meet my needs well enough. And, best of all, she also gave me a rule book to keep in the vehicle and pointed out all the relevant pages to know.

So, I'd say the moral of the story is, be prepared for confusion in this matter, whether you are dealing with DMV, DOR, or the state trooper that may have just pulled you over...
It's also been my experience that almost everyone I spoke to was certain and adamant about what they were saying, and most were also incorrect.


Hope that's moderately helpful to some..


ciao
lino

 

[Hoefler]

My two cents here. Those receiving a check from American taxpayers by proxy (city, county, state, Fed job) have been turned into revenue generators. Best to follow the speed limit and every other rule of the road, and you will avoid this "tax".
My business bought a new 1 ton Silverado that has a GVW of more than 10,000 pounds. Bought the truck in 2011 and use it to haul little stuff, like refills for our forklifts, occasional objects that are about 500 pounds. We got a letter from the state at the first of the year telling us we need to DOT number our truck. Didn't know this-the DMV never told us. The fee is 190 bucks for the DOT number along with complicated paperwork that can only be filled out at the DMV-that it would take between 6 and 8 hours to do-or pay 375 bucks for the DMV to do it. That smells-real bad.
They are getting very creative in their ways to generate income.
Pete

 

[hklvette]

My two cents here. Those receiving a check from American taxpayers by proxy (city, county, state, Fed job) have been turned into revenue generators. Best to follow the speed limit and every other rule of the road, and you will avoid this "tax".
My business bought a new 1 ton Silverado that has a GVW of more than 10,000 pounds. Bought the truck in 2011 and use it to haul little stuff, like refills for our forklifts, occasional objects that are about 500 pounds. We got a letter from the state at the first of the year telling us we need to DOT number our truck. Didn't know this-the DMV never told us. The fee is 190 bucks for the DOT number along with complicated paperwork that can only be filled out at the DMV-that it would take between 6 and 8 hours to do-or pay 375 bucks for the DMV to do it. That smells-real bad.
They are getting very creative in their ways to generate income.
Pete

This is a little off-topic, but DOT numbers on sub-CDL weight trucks is a requirement if used for commercial purposes. This is becoming a big sticking point with DMV & DOT as increasing numbers of people use 1-ton trucks for hot-shot type hauling.

 

[Andrmorr]

Well, this thread has been quiet for a while, but I thought I'd post my findings on the topic subject.

I'm in NC, and when I got my weighted plates (26000#, max non-CDL, and about as much as I'd ever load the deuce anyway) I was looking at the registration and it says that I need an IFTA fuel sticker if I'm over 26k OR have 3 axles regardless of weight. So I started searching and found this thread...

You can look up the laws on your own, and certainly don't take my comments here as anything resembling legal advice. But essentially, being commercial or not isn't relevant here. RVs are exempt but I don't have an M109, so I can't even attempt that one.

So I started calling the DMV and Excise Tax division of DOR for clarification. After hours on the phone, I can assure you that light, 3 axle vehicles must be confusing. I was transferred to: DMV, DOL, DOR, the head of NC inspection stations, the crimes department, and then started back over again with the DOR...

What I found was that I do need the stickers (3 axles, any weight is pretty plain English). If I get INTRAstate stickers, there is no fee, no quarterly reporting, and little trouble. INTERstate tags, require logs, reporting, fees, audits, and other mess. Since any interstate travel in my deuce will be exceedingly rare, INTRAstate decals will do me well and I can get a trip permit for out of state travel if I really want to go by the book.

So, I went into the DOR today to apply and get stickers. Same drill as on the phone...
"We can't give you stickers unless you increase the weight of your vehicle over 26001." "Then I'll need CDL", "yessir". When I stated (nicely) that I didn't think that was correct, I was sent 2 blocks away to DMV who told me that was all wrong and that I should just get stickers. Happily they called them (DOR) and explained. However as I was leaving, they (DMV) told me that I needed to get a DOT number as well...

So I went back to DOR to wait in line again. This time I bounced through two more people. Fortunately the last one happened to be the same woman I talked to on the phone at the end of my phone saga. She knew what she was talking about.
I DO NOT need a DOT number (and certainly don't need that can of worms for a non-commercial vehicle), I DO need the fuel decals, but intrastate stickers meet my needs well enough. And, best of all, she also gave me a rule book to keep in the vehicle and pointed out all the relevant pages to know.

So, I'd say the moral of the story is, be prepared for confusion in this matter, whether you are dealing with DMV, DOR, or the state trooper that may have just pulled you over...
It's also been my experience that almost everyone I spoke to was certain and adamant about what they were saying, and most were also incorrect.


Hope that's moderately helpful to some..


ciao
lino

It sounds like it might be worth my while to come up there and register my M930 with your woman who seems to know whats up instead of re-inventing the wheel here in Burlington. What office did you go to?

 

[Hoefler]

We have recently learned that. DMV was supposed to have bridged that when we registered the truck. The point I was trying to make is the paperwork and the method of that paperwork. It's a veiled tax. Makes me wonder how many folks sit at the DMV and do the paperwork vs pay for them to do it.
We have chosen to use courier services to move our stuff around the metro and simply sell our truck. After four years and only 11K miles, the DOT stuff along with its cost makes our truck not justifiable.
Pete

 

[lino]

It sounds like it might be worth my while to come up there and register my M930 with your woman who seems to know whats up instead of re-inventing the wheel here in Burlington. What office did you go to?

The office is in south Raleigh and oddly difficult to find with online searches...

NC DOR Excise Tax
1429 Rock Quarry Road (I think it was suite 105)
Raleigh, NC 27610

The woman's name is Kathy, I'm sorry, but I don't have her last name.

 

[Andrmorr]

The office is in south Raleigh and oddly difficult to find with online searches...

NC DOR Excise Tax
1429 Rock Quarry Road (I think it was suite 105)
Raleigh, NC 27610

The woman's name is Kathy, I'm sorry, but I don't have her last name.

Every little bit helps! Thanks...I will come back and update for those following in the future... Andrew

 

[rmgill]

When I went down the rabbit hole to figure out what was needed for running my then owned 5 ton, what I found was that IFTA and IRP stickers/tags were for trucks in commerce. IFTA is filed quarterly. IRP is too. The key components on those was not weight/size of vehicle but the "in commerce" bits. IFTA is about management of fuel taxes for Motor Carriers. IRP is about the management of road use fees for same based on milage. If you're not commercial, you're not a motor carrier as it's reasonably defined.

Being an RV doesn't exempt you from Commercial Motor Vehicle Regs as a rule, its that it's not for hire and used in the furtherance of a business enterprise. Thus, it's the use, not the equipment.

Some states may be more restrictive, but on face, it only applies to motor carriers and NOT private persons.

 

[rhurey]

We have chosen to use courier services to move our stuff around the metro and simply sell our truck. After four years and only 11K miles, the DOT stuff along with its cost makes our truck not justifiable.

That's likely the goal.

This thread makes me glad I live in WA.

 

[rhurey]

Being an RV doesn't exempt you from Commercial Motor Vehicle Regs as a rule, its that it's not for hire and used in the furtherance of a business enterprise. Thus, it's the use, not the equipment.

RV's are likely a special class because so many are rented. WA even defines an RV to include all two axle cargo rental vehicles rented to haul personal goods of the renter. The vehicles are used in a commercial endeavor by the owner, just not by the end user.

 

[m-35tom]

while that would be logical, each state has it's own rules of enforcement. i remember that it was said that you could not run any 3 axle truck in pa without ifta. that may have changed, i don't know. in maryland certain tags like historic were exempt, but md no longer allows historic tags for any use except parades. i was told that if i already had historic tags that i was 'grandfathered in' and could still use them. they really don't bother mil vehicles in md so we will see.

 

[turnkey]

So howdy and here is one for ya ...The wife and I are traveling to Fl. to see friends in our M35A3......We stop and buy regular disel at truck stops....Never had any trouble with cops in or off the interstates.......Just want to look at it...I have Hist tags as she is a 1984 model year....So I really feel the pain for you guys having to pay the fuel taxes..I have put around 5,000 miles ont he old girl ...No problems with anyone ...Just saying ..

 

[Smokinyoda]

The wife and I are traveling to Fl. to see friends in our M35A3, I have Hist tags as she is a 1984 model year

You sure about the year? M35A3's weren't even built until the early 90s...

You get pulled over by the wrong someone and it could turn into a bad day.

 

[drivebymashing]

From my understanding you can run antique tags but must be weighted if its on a heavy truck like ours. So its cost more than a normal weighted tag.

 

[orren]

From my understanding you can run antique tags but must be weighted if its on a heavy truck like ours. So its cost more than a normal weighted tag.

Luckily, here in Florida I run a one-time fee Antique Tag on my 1969 M36A2C. I believe the fee was weight based yet reasonable for just one time.
As I understand this tag is covered by reciprocity agreement for the whole country.

 

[rustystud]

Luckily, here in Florida I run a one-time fee Antique Tag on my 1969 M36A2C. I believe the fee was weight based yet reasonable for just one time.
As I understand this tag is covered by reciprocity agreement for the whole country.

That's what I was told too here in Washington State.

 

[OilfieldRoughneck]

Makes me glad I am in wyoming. So far the local sheriffs only look and wave.

 

[rmgill]

The two trips I took to Pa and back, hauling a trailer with another mv on it, the DOT guys never batted an eye at me. Usually I got waves.