Fuel sticker violation in NC

[paulfarber]

Conspiracy theorists unite!!! For Federal Taxes:

Where does the revenue from the fuel tax go?

The revenue from the collected fuel taxes are deposited into the Highway Trust Fund, which has several accounts. Though the percentages vary depending on the fuel type, the majority (approximately 83 to 87%) is deposited into the Highway Account, to be used on road construction and maintenance. An additional amount (approximately 11 to 15%) goes to the Mass Transit Account, and for many fuels, 0.1 cents per gallon goes to the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund.




The Georgia constitution specifies that the state must spend whatever amount is raised by the motor-fuel tax on roads and bridges.


In PA, its also part of the State Constitution:


Gasoline Taxes and Motor License Fees Restricted
Section 11.

(a) All proceeds from gasoline and other motor fuel excise taxes, motor vehicle registration fees and license taxes, operators' license fees and other excise taxes imposed on products used in motor transportation after providing therefrom for (a) cost of administration and collection, (b) payment of obligations incurred in the construction and reconstruction of public highways and bridges shall be appropriated by the General Assembly to agencies of the State or political subdivisions thereof; and used solely for construction, reconstruction, maintenance and repair of and safety on public highways and bridges and costs and expenses incident thereto, and for the payment of obligations incurred for such purposes, and shall not be diverted by transfer or otherwise to any other purpose, except that loans may be made by the State from the proceeds of such taxes and fees for a single period not exceeding eight months, but no such loan shall be made within the period of one year from any preceding loan, and every loan made in any fiscal year shall be repayable within one month after the beginning of the next fiscal year.



So please read up before espousing tax conspiracy.

And 73M189 you should read your State Constitution You have the same clause.

 

[73m819]

PAUL, If you believe that CRAP then you are more naive then I thought, I'm not going into line by line rebuttal. EVERY state and the fed has a constitution that is supposed to be the law of the land (JOKE)( The Former speaker of the house was asked "What about the CONSTITUTION" her ANSWER was "YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING"), Just because it is WRITTEN does not mean it will be done as WRITTEN or done at all. there are many examples of this. SS is a good one, The ORIGNAL INCOME TAX LAW is another. The DOT is known for funding everything from bike paths (bike riders don't pay a bike trail tax so who pays for lt) to zebra strips in a transit parking lot (transit riders don"t pay a transit tax for the up keep, that is why subsidies, so who pays), The FUEL TAX is a cash cow that GOV. CAN NOT keep there hands OFF, and as long as the money keeps FLOWING in it will NOT CHANGE, being that all the states and fed are BROKE, this money GRAB will only get WORSE

 

[Bulldog 4]

Didn't take me too long to find this (just one of many):
Congress Raids the Highway Trust Fund for Pet Projects While Bridges and Roads Crumble

 

[paulfarber]

Again you need to read the statute....

They can make loans against the funds that must be repaid. Nothing nefarious... all legal.

And citing a hit piece from a politician is not the sort of thing I would but much faith in.

 

[overlordofmars]

I went on about our water company and the crap the did me out of a 50K per year job. We with our heavy trucks were supposed to be exempt at the water company from fuel taxes. As were were regulated by the PUC we were given an exemption. But here is the kicker. We bought fuel, a lot of it. With all our vehicles we paid on average $800.00 per week on fuel.

Every quarter we were to file for reimbursement on the fuel tax. It was supposed to be 1,2,3 here is your check from the state. But every time, they would drag it on and audit the records, and every time they would come up with an insane un appeal-able reason to deny a huge chunk of the amount due back.

And yes even though we were exempt we had to have those stupid stickers.

 

[1983M35A2]

georgia tuf on the fuel i know one of my friends works for dot enforcement 1k fine mixing fuel an turns u over to irs for not paying tax on fuel.they charge u a fine pur gallon.

 

[RealCavDog]

Hey Guys ! Check out the newer post titled " Slide in camper for my Deuce "

Not a solution for everyone, but exactly what I need to consider in my case !

 

[73m819]

Again you need to read the statute....

They can make loans against the funds that must be repaid. Nothing nefarious... all legal.

And citing a hit piece from a politician is not the sort of thing I would but much faith in.

Are you JOKING, yes thay can BORROW, give IOUs like with SS, BUT and this is a BIG BUT, the Supreme Court ruled that the GOVERNMENT CANNOT owe it self, this is WHY SS is going broke, the government can rob Peter to pay Paul BUT does not have to pay Peter back.

 

[CARNAC]

I hear a lot of female dogging and a lot of off topic discussion but nobody is looking for the root cause and response.

Bottom line is an change/addition to the federal law is required that states something to the effect of:

Vehicles formerly produced for or owned by the United States Government and used by the owner for non-commercial use are exempt from IFTA.

Vehicles with historic, collectors, or antique registrations and used for non-commecial use are exempt from IFTA.

Yep in the grand scheme of things we are a small minority of the population. We either hit up our members of Congress to make the change or sit here and sulk. I don't give a rats a$$ about how worthy your representative is. You either write them and make this aware of this issue and try to do something about it or just take what is given you.

 

[Bulldog 4]

Carnac, I think you have made the point on this one. We are a very small segment of truck owners. There are not many out there who will own an 80,000 lb GVWR vehicle for an occasional drive in the country. I believe that most DOT enforcement personnel are used to dealing with commercial vehicles and are not familiar with trucks like ours being used as RVs or collectibles. So I think the main problem we have to deal with is that ignorance on behalf of the CMV enforcement officer we may encounter in our travels.

 

[CARNAC]

And here's my part. I have dedacted some information of a personal nature. I was kinda hoping one of the legal types on here would prepare something but here's a start. Copy, adjust, and submit.

I also belong to a military vehicle club with over 28,000 members worldwide. Recently it was brought to my attention several members received citations for traveling on interstates without a Interstate Fuel Tax Act (IFTA) permit. The law states all vehicles over 3 axles and used for commercial purposes and exempts recreational vehicles. The problem is the law is very vague and Department of Transportation is enforcing a strict version of the law. I am asking for a provision be added to the law to exempt vehicles with historic, collectors, or antique tags from having to abide by the IFTA and for the law to more broadly explain recreational vehicles to include other personal use vehicles in addition to campers and motor homes. Towing a privately owned non-commecial historic trailers should also be exempted.
I have included a link to our website and a thread concerning this issue. Although this incident occurred in North Carolina, we have other members reporting similar incidents elsewhere. A change in the federal law will prompt states to follow suit.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/67858-fuel-sticker-viloation-nc.html
As always, I appreciate any assistance you can provide in this matter.
------------------------


If the states don't follow suit, then we can hit them one at a time as needed. They want money, they can either get it through revenue from events or we can let our wallets do the walking and not have an event in that specific state. For the pennies they will get from us in taxes or fines, they would probably be a lot better off with use having a show.

That's what got me about WI and their issues with their state DOT. Heck the MVPA and ourselves should have been all over that (and any of these issues) and say "Look we bring in X number of people to X show at X location. If you want to F with us, we will take out show into the neighboring state and let them have the revenue generated."

Face it, we are for law enforcement a low cost hobby. We tend to policy ourselves at events. I've done 4 Aberdeens and numerous other shows. I have yet to see the police called in to handle any disturbances. At Aberdeen we fill the hotel, buy a lot of food (and beer), and no doubt give a boost to the local economy. I'm sure Aberdeens economy doesn't hinge on just us but I'm sure they like us spending our out of state money there. Gilbert is probably a lot more important to that economy.

We need to hit the root cause and if the lawmakers don't want to make a resonable exemption, then we need to take our vehicles and our money elsewhere. Making those decisions is leadership.

 

[3dAngus]

This thread represents the single best reason for Bobbing a Deuce to date. I'm not suggesting I'm in favor of bobbing, nor that anyone else should, but it surely gives rational thinking a edge up on leaning that way, even in spite of preservation. Govt. rules, written vaguely, usually work in favor of govt. Other comments as follows:

1. Strap two military cots on the sides of your deuce. Next time you go to a rally, take pictures of you camping next to it. I would fight anyone who would say a Deuce is NOT for camping of sleeping in. It should qualify for a RV, (with a tarp) or, at least might make a good argument in court if needed, especially with pictures. A trunk with sheets, pillow, or other accessories could help to.

2. A tax ID number is required for IFTA application. I don't have one. I would think I don't qualify based on that alone. I'm no businessman. Of course, the courts argument is that I'm an illegal businessman, because I have a deuce, and double the fine.

3. Cops of all sorts scare the heck out of me. I don't even like talking to them. Not because they are not good guys. Some are outstanding guys. It's because they're dangerous. They have the power. It is not illegal to be stupid, but carry stupid with a badge, and they can write a ticker for almost anythng, and the burden of proof is on you, not them.

4. A M-109 is looking much more appealing than a deuce today. Definitely a RV wanna-be.

5. And a bobbed deuce at the risk of losing preservation still holds out above working with vague laws and lawmen who abuse, misread, or misrepresent the intent of the law. Clarity works better. Work with Carnac. He is on the right track about changing the laws. If you guys can't stick together and work this issue out, or at least try, you've already lost the battle. it will just get worse. There is power in numbers. Let me know how I can help. I am not a lawyer, however.

 

[paulfarber]

The MVPA is not going to do anything unless membership forces them to. Its a jeep club. How helpful was the MVPA when WISDOT was flat out refusing to register MVs there?

Right now it seems that most people want a historical exemption. It doesn't seem that many M series 3 axles MVs are registered as historical... so while its a place to start, it could end up biting you in the rear as now you HAVE to register historical and live with the restrictions.

It also seems that only two people have been cited. One in NC and on in PA. The one in PA seems to have gotten off with court costs, but NC we don't know about.

So how many people are getting cited in an M35 or larger MV? What groups of owners can be brought together?

 

[Flyingvan911]

I agree with CARNAC. If we politely write to our Senators and Representatives, we might bring out problem to light. We seem to be falling through the cracks. We often talk about needing to make changes. Here is a chance to ask for help from people who really can help, if they choose to. Some of our basic points are:

-Most MV's are driven occasionally for personal, non-commercial use.

-Most interstate travel is for recreation/vacation.

-Most MV's don't hold much more fuel than large pick up trucks.

These are just a few. There are a few more I'm sure I haven't thought of. The key is to show that we are patriotic hobbyist that are just trying to clear up a glitch in the law. We desire to obey the law and are asking for their help in clarifying the purpose and use of our trucks.

 

[paulfarber]

Just being realistic here... you have to get your request in front of the Federal committee that oversees IFTA. And they have to have enough clout to propose a change and have other members support it.

You need to get a significant group of people together (reach out to established car clubs that may use a hauler to get to shows, or the club that restores tractor trailers) and go that route.

A few dozen letters e-mailed to a few congressmen that most likely have no pull on the committees is an exercise in futility.

I think its a good idea, but your initial premiss of a 'grass roots' letter writing campaign by a few SS members is shortsighted.

 

[3dAngus]

I respectively disagree. You never know what kind of fire you light with a match.

Let it be. No point in dousing with the water bucket before it gets lit.

 

[84crawling]

Ok so finally said the h*ll with it all and got my stickers..I think I can fight the $100 fine since it took 2 hrs in the IFTA office and they didnt know if I quallified for the stickers either lol..So I know have 2 bright yellow reflective stickers on my OD green truck , now I wonder how long it will be till I catch h**l about my 5k lbs tag on my 13K lbs truck..and still waiting on the outcome of my fuel test.

 

[Flyingvan911]

5k tags on a truck that weighs 13k automaticly puts you overweigh if the DOT chooses to bust you. Just a heads up.

As far as IFTA goes- We need to atleast try. If we don't try, we have only ourselves to blame for lack of progress in our hobby. Write to our various reps and car clubs, etc. We can try to tell as many people as possible about our troubles and ideas.

Maybe they will ignore us, hopefully not. If we are polite and concise in our request, hopefully someone will think it is worthy to bring up in an official manner. Most lawmakers know someone who knows someone. And...it does look good for them to support the lowly old common man once in a while. So there'sa little something in it for them too.

I think we should come up with a basic form for a letter that each of us can send to our reps in DC. It should include a detailed summary of our problem with IFTA and what changes we would like and why.

I think we might start a new thread specificly for ideas for letting our reps/car clubs know what's going on. Just a thought.

We can also write letters to classic car clubs, especially ones that focus on antique trucks. Explain what our issue is and can they help get the issue brought up in DC.

 

[123mack]

This topic has been a point of discussion with the ATHS for some time, espically since they are mostly former commercial trucks. This thread is an example.
State Fuel Exemption Letters

 

[Flyingvan911]

What has the ATHS done as far as contacting politicians? Was there any response? It might be easier to get MV's exempt than former commercial trucks since MV's don't look like commercially used trucks. Maybe SS and ATHS members can help each other.