Full hydro help needed...smart math people!

[TheBuggyman]

The five ton power steering pump bolts on the front of the motor in front of the injection pump. There is a four or five bolt cover there that you remove and bolt the five ton pump right in as it is driven directly off of the front gears.

I did this on my Deuce and went full hydro and discovered some things:

1) use a steering valve that will give you approximately the same turns lock to lockas stock so the truck does not feel "twitchy".

2) use a steering valve that gives a little feedback. I have forgotten what style that this is called but PSC has them. It requires a little more force to turn the wheel so now you will have to turn with two fingers instead of one......

3) use teflon lined heims

4) use quality hose and fittings. Jegs carries a Russel hose that is a teflon inner and braided stainless outer. Use their stainless fittings too.

5) with the five ton pump you will need a relief valve piped back to the suction of the pump as it has no internal relief.

6) use the five ton p/s fluid tank. The five ton pump moves alot of fluid and if you do not use a large tank the fluid will become aerated. Trust me......

And last but not least: Please don't set a budget. Tally everything up and if it is over $1500 then save the rest. You will be much happier with the quality and performance of your system. It would not be pretty if you blow a hose or break a cheap heim and crash into oncoming traffic.......

I don't believe that I spent much over 1500-2000 on my system and it worked perfect. You could drive my Duece down a bumpy, wallowed out country road at 55 mph all day long with two fingers on the wheel. Good luck with your project!

 

[IHASFIP]

I appreciate the input. I know that for 1500-2000 $ I could buy a PSC kit. Matter of a fact right now I can get the PSC get for around 830$. Half off almost. Thing is I don't want to spend more than a thousand dollars. I could, but don't want to. I think that is achievable being I have some friends in high places. I wouldn't mind air assist as it is cheap (under 900$) but the fact that it is so vulnerable doesn't appeal to me. I also have no personal experience as to the ease of steering with air assist. I do have experience with hydro and I do like it.

D

 

[SR71BLACKBIRD]

Maybe i am silly but sounds like you are making this rocket science.
Go to the truck yard and get it all from a comperable big truck.

 

[mudguppy]

... right now I can get the PSC get for around 830$. Half off almost. Thing is I don't want to spend more than a thousand dollars. .... I wouldn't mind air assist as it is cheap (under 900$)...

now you make no sense why you wouldn't go w/ the PSC kit. $830 is certainly less than a $G, but you're more tempted to get an air-assist if it's less than $900??

which i had your connections - difference is, i'd use them.

 

[IHASFIP]

The simplicity of the air assist would be nice, but the strength and offroad ability of the hydro would be better. I have the oppurtunity at the MOMENT to get a PSC kit for around 830ish, but I don't have 830ish dollars right now, well not for that. If this is still available in like a month, then I will get it. As for making it rocket science, your right I am. I don't want to make some unsafe or unreliable system. As for going to a big truck junkyard, I don't know of one around here, and I don't know of any big trucks with full hydro. Like I said I don't want to put a gear box and stuff on it. If I can just figure out what pump would put out enough a** to push this ram I would be set...that isn't 500$.

D

 

[jesusgatos]

Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to go this route on my M109.

 

[Unforgiven]

most automotive power steering [hydraulic] pumps are rotary vane pumps - adjustable displacement. typically gear or gerotor pumps (and other fixed displacement) pumps are spec'd per that displacement.

rotary vane pumps basically provide a volume based on both rpm and pressure, where as fixed displacement types will push the same volume regardless of what the pressure is.

best advice i can give is get the biggest pump you can find - salvage/take-off from a one-ton pickup truck. FYI - the hi-volume pump from PSC is only $340. i do say only, because it puts out some fluid.

btw, i just ordered this kit yesterday. should be put on next week.

Mudguppy,

Did you put a build-thread together for this hydaulic assist? I would be curious about the specifics of your install.

 

[ranchhopper]

I put this steering gear from a ford truck on my bobbed deuce I have HEMTT rims on the truck with a shallower backspacing but I believe you can move the pump and mount it back or forward more to clear the front tire on a hard right turn. I put a cat engine in this truck useing the stock cat pump but I cant see any good reason a guy couldnt use a stock pump from a ford or chevy two ton truck. You sound knowledgeable enough in your posts to be able to fab a bracket for the PS pump maybe Im comparing apples to oranges here but it might work.

 

[ranchhopper]

I might add I did have to use the steering column from an 818 with this set up because its a jointed column and I went down to my friends shop and had him order an adapter with the correct amount of splines to put the steering shaft on the box. The added advantage of the five ton steering column is a smaller diameter steering wheel.

 

[Unforgiven]

You have an interesting system. I'm actually thinking of something even easier. A complete bolt-on ram assist that does not replace any of the stock steering system. So it would be a true hydraulic assisting manual setup.

The PSC full hydro kit looks interesting. But I'm not sure if the ram replaces the tie rod or piggybacks on it.

A simple cog gear attached to the steering column could be matched with the steering valve set to the side of the steering column to make the stock lock-to-lock match that of the valve.

The 5 ton PS pump sounds interesting.

 

[ranchhopper]

I had a couple vickers PS pumps I took off a couple M52s I sold them to a couple guys here doing PS conversions they bolt right onto the multifuel engine like a previous post stated take the cover off in front of the IP they bolt right in.

 

[jesusgatos]

I understand how hydraulic-assisted steering setups usually work, but I'm not sure if I'm following you. Are you suggesting that you could adapt something to the steering column that would direct hydraulic fluid (pressure) to the ram? That's an interesting idea. Not sure I've ever seen anything like that before.

 

[tm america]

Don't forget full hydro is illegal for street use.. . ..Fully power is easier to turn when it works.. but you have nothing when a hose blows. air assist helps but has hoses and a cylinder in harms way same as full hydro.You could savely and legally run a power steering box or a set up like what comes on old combines..It is basicly the same as air o matic but uses hydro and gives more boost.Heres a pic of a setup i was trying to win a few years ago

 

[mudguppy]

Don't forget full hydro is illegal for street use...

and don't forget about the dozens of posts that completely rebuke this statement.

 

[jesusgatos]

Don't forget full hydro is illegal for street use...

We've been through this, and it's just not true (except for one state that someone was able to find a specific law prohibiting it). A search will turn up all the info.

 

[sewerzuk]

Don't forget full hydro is illegal for street use

This is not true

We can debate it all day, but I personally researched this in great depth before I put the full hydro on my deuce. It is only illegal in Tennessee. Posts like this are why the rumor is still around.

I am running full hydro on my deuce using a 5 ton pump. I only found a few different pumps that were used, but they were all similar in flow and max pressure. Mine puts out more than enough for the double ended PSC ram I am using. Read about it here:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-...11-all-stuff-i-did-my-deuce-right-here-9.html

 

[tm america]

ok forget about weather it is legal or not there are several ways to get hydro boost steering.Only one of them bets everyones life on a couple of hydraulic lines..All the others have a back up ...I wouldn't want to be in a bad place cuz a hose failed and i ended up killing someone or getting hurt myself...Cheap is great till you kill someone and their insurance sues you cuz you were the one that did the mod to the steering..The style power steering setup i showed in the pic is easily installed and is very safe..While still giving you the same boost as full hydro.

 

[mudguppy]

... I wouldn't want to be in a bad place cuz a hose failed and i ended up killing someone or getting hurt myself...

you mean like your brake system?

 

[jesusgatos]

Kind of a weak argument to say that full hydro is any less safe than mechanical linkage too. You're trusting your life to something one way or the other, and I don't know why you think that hydro systems are inherently any less safe than mechanical systems. For me, it's not about ultimate power, it's more a matter of how the steering linkage interacts with the suspension. And who said anything about going full hydro being cheap? Or easy?

 

[tm america]

i have full hydro on my tractor and know what it is like to loose steering cuz of a blown hose ...NOT fun ..At road speed deadly..I have lost brake lines many times ... a deuce has a manual trans just down shift to slow down and use the e brake to stop...If a steering hose lets go the wheels usually do a full turn one way or another with no time to react.I can choose to leave a bigger gap between the car in front of me but can't choose whether another car is driving the opposite direction on a two lane road..