Gear Splitter

[mudguppy]

Or,

tire D = OD ratio x mph x axle x 336/rpm = 0.79 x 60 x 6.72 x 336 / 1900 = 56.33 inches

Tape measure time: Measure the center of the axle to the ground. ...

well, this'd be the first i've ever heard of a 16.00 being 56"+. if that were the case, all the 'emasculated' mud trucks running these tires between their trailer and wal-mart would be yankin' their willy at the fact that the tire is 56" and not the claimed '53"'. i think the acual loaded D is closer to 52", but if i can get my deuce started this afternoon i'll measure.

... Not one single deuce TM that I can find talks of MF OD ratios other than 0.79. ...

i agree, that is strange. but i also find it very odd that there is this very basic and very large discrepency among the knowledgeable members on this site. seems to me that this is a very simple sort of thing that would have been definitively proven long ago. i mean, people have been talking 0.85OD for years...

it'd be nice if the people that 'know' would share how and why they know what they know.


anyone got a digital tach? put some tape on the jack shaft, put the 'case in N and tranny in 5, and get a reading off of the jack shaft at 1000 engine rpm and compare... i'd do it if i had one. can i borrow someone's?

 

[booger]

I used 'roll out' it's more accurate than radius. My 9.00's measure 128 inches and my 53's measure 165 inches

 

[mudguppy]

but if i can get my deuce started this afternoon i'll measure. ...

it's getting ready to start sleeting - so i lied.


but, souces say it is 52.9". so, again, loaded it's probably going to be just under 26" radius.

 

[m-35tom]

booger, using the dia is not as accurate as using the effective radius for calculations. what is the obsession with big tires? and why not start out in 2nd low range, then 3, 4, 5, then 4th high? you will also notice that the upper torque curve gives max power at 1900 rpm, not 2600.

 

[m-35tom]

there is only one part number for each gear in the 3053, even if it is an 'A' or 'B'. if there were ever different ratios, there would be other numbers available. the .85 MAY be an anomily from someone upgrading a 3052 by only using the 5th gears and not changing the input set. .85 od would be just about useless, even worse than the .79 (in a stock truck)

 

[tm america]

what is the obsession with big tiresthis is one of those questions that if i told you you wouldnt understand anyway.but i will touch on it anyway its not just about top speed its about offroading and being the big dog yes you can get more top speed other ways and can make your truck better offroad other ways.but if you did them and had bigger tires it would be even better yetand i agree the peak torque it around 1900 which is why having higher gear ratios of the 3052 would be a big improvement .with my 15.5s taking off in second puts you below the power curve and first is to low and is not syncroed. if i ran a 3052 it would have the idea ratio to start off in secondwhile only loosing a little on the top end but the accelleration would be night and day from how it is now.i already have the engine turned up as much as i feel i can safely go i'm running over 25psi of boost so it pulls pretty hard above 1500 but way better above 2000 all the way up to about 2700

 

[tm america]

i use 2nd low then second high 3rd high 4th high then 5th high if i'm on a hill or loaded but it just gets to be a pain sometimes if you are in a turn bending down to shift and turning at the same timei use 2 low 3 low then 3 high 4high and 5 high sometimes but dont like it as much . and no matter how you drive it you still have lost your super lows for offroad and they do come in handy

 

[booger]

what is the obsession with big tires

Obsession? Not even, they are the root of all complications! Or the excuse to do a lot of modifications. The tires came with the truck ( in the back of it ) when I bought it as a stock M35. Don't get me wrong, they look way cool and draw a much bigger crowd than a Bobber with stock tires and wheels. And, they give me about 7 inches more ground clearance. But, that's about it.

With XZL's you need power steering ( which kind; ps box, power assist, full-hydro - is a can of worms ).
With XZL's you need to do some kind of lift, I would go with 6" more arch on the springs if I keep rhem.
With XZL's you need to address the exhaust in the wheel well ( I've already done that )
And, for my conditions, mostly hard surfaces, rocks, ice and snow, the XZL's have too much surface area and don't flex at all ( No, I haven't tried running them flat yet ) under the weight of a 10,000 lb truck and do a lot more spinning, slipping and sliding than a set of grooved NDT's

 

[mudguppy]

it warmed up so i went out and got my truck started. measured on the concrete my front tire is about 52.5" tall, so the effective loaded radius is right about 26" dead nutz. so, again, i use 52" as tire D.

... With XZL's you need to do some kind of lift, I would go with 6" more arch on the springs if I keep rhem. ...

i got 6" lift springs on my truck. however, i wish i would have gone w/ 8" springs - the driver's lower fender corner will dig into the tread when the wheel is turned 1/2 left combined w/ moderate articulation. but, since i should lose about 600lbs when i do the motor swap, i'm hoping to gain some lift. if not, i'll trim the fender corner.

... With XZL's you need to address the exhaust in the wheel well ( I've already done that ) ...

i haven't - mine will rub on the J-pipe. doesn't seem like it causes issues right now. again, hopefully that will change w/ the swap. though, i am thinking of running the exhaust up between the cab and bed. it's gonna be tight...

... ( No, I haven't tried running them flat yet ) ...

i'm scared to try that. if i had 2-piece wheels w/ bead-locks i'd try it.

... under the weight of a 10,000 lb truck and do a lot more spinning, slipping and sliding ...

my problems mainly seem to be around the rear slipping so much.

 

[tm america]

if the rear is slipping you need to get a 6x6 to fix the problem

 

[ALFA2]

Booger, as little as I know of the transmission gear ratios, I do know a little of the Arizona State Vehicle requirements, that state if you build a new over the road vehicle, it must have: a mechanical steering linkage connection to the wheels, a service brake system, and a separate ( independent) emergency/Parking brake system, adequate for the vehicle weight loaded, to hold from rolling on an incline, for more detail info check AZ MVD website for Reconstructed, and Newly Constructed/manufactured vehicles, to pass initial inspection for title, and on road registration in AZ.
Personally, if you stay in or near Greer, no one will ever ask or look at the specific design of your steering system, as long as there is no accident involving you with this truck and a complete loss of steering control, due to badly home made steering system and linkage.
By the way, of all the state inspectors who perform such initial inspections, only maybe 6 actually know the difference or can tell by looking which steering system you have in the truck. If you Keep under 26,000 lbs Gvw, you are safe from commercial MVD inspection, especially in or near Greer, so if it is OK with you local Sheriff/Police, then do what you feel will work best in your circumstance and budget.

Hope this helps some.

ALFA2

 

[mudguppy]

if the rear is slipping you need to get a 6x6 to fix the problem

tremendous input.

 

[tm america]

ya i like it bobbing is the same as putting bigger tires on .there are a thousand things you need to do to make it right but there is always gonna be a trade off.each one has its place but one truck cant do everything prefectly.

 

[tm america]

i thought the reason for bobbing was to gain accerration and drivabilty why loose the traction of six wheel drive if you are still gonna have to do all this stuff to make it drivableif you put hydro steering and a gear splitter on a 6x6 there would be no reason to bob.but i would think switching to a cummins 6bt would be cheaper than getting one of those gear splitters and be a way better fix for lack of power

 

[bigdog12]

Has anyone benn able to find one of those 3000A boxes,havent found anything on the net.

 

[Coldfusion21]

i thought the reason for bobbing was to gain accerration and drivabilty why loose the traction of six wheel drive if you are still gonna have to do all this stuff to make it drivableif you put hydro steering and a gear splitter on a 6x6 there would be no reason to bob.but i would think switching to a cummins 6bt would be cheaper than getting one of those gear splitters and be a way better fix for lack of power

But, a bigger engine wont get you going any faster. Just get you to that speed faster. So while 6BT would be cool, it has no connection to this discussion.

 

[mudguppy]

But, a bigger engine wont get you going any faster. Just get you to that speed faster. So while 6BT would be cool, it has no connection to this discussion.

well, my multifuel is no-load governed to 2600 rpm and begins de-fueling at 2500. the 6bt i have is no-load governed to 4000 rpm and begins defueling at about 3800 rpm. so, a 6bt will get you as much speed as you want and more than you need. and, before it's asked, yes you can run a 6bt comfortably at probably ~3200 rpm all day without issue.

but, the point is still outstanding - taller OD's could be warranted because of the restrictions set by the steep axle gears. for about the time and money you could spend on fitting something like one of the allison MD 6spd autos (that have double OD, ending w/ 0.65OD), you could just about drop in the custom 4.91 ratio axle gear sets.

but, with taller axle gears, the existing 5spd ratios will seem wider and wider apart for the multi's power and rpm range, so then more gears may still be required and it goes on and on. this supports my theory that the engine needs improvement if you don't want to live w/ '60's performance standards.

 

[Unforgiven]

Don't forget the Cummins 5.9 is 1100 lbs compared to the multifuel at about 1600. That extra 500 lbs could go to a really nice 6 sp. auto like a 2400 or 3500 series Allison

 

[Unforgiven]

Allison 6 speed or NV3500 stick + Atlas transfer case w/military strength output = 3 way gear splitter.

O.D. 0.65 from Allison
Granny up to 10.5 from Atlas

More than enough physical drivetrain space if you have the $$

 

[booger]

clue me in on a NV3500 and NV4500