Gear Vendors Overdrive it is

[U1100L]

little late but here we go..

 

[DawgTchrr]

I'm trying to do the GV install for my M1031. Clearance space to the PTO shouldn't be a problem. I was all set to bolt up the adaptor to the NP205 and realized the slip yoke housing is @ 6" and the adaptor I have is only 4.25" The slip yoke / fixed yoke has me waiting for a new adaptor or I'm going to have to change to fixed output. This means I'll need a new drive shaft as well.

 

[Dave Kay]

Been a while since I looked in... as for the PTO I hadn't even considered it. Maybe call Gear Vendors and ask, they're really helpful people. And I can't really see your pictures too well. Maybe try attaching instead of embedding? That way they come out larger when you click on them.

 

[Dave Kay]

Not sure what you're saying. Are you changing the 205 adapter from a slip-yoke to a fixed yoke? And yes, no matter which way it goes you must have drive shaft re-sized. BTW I saved my original DS in case I want to pull the GV unit and return my truck to stock.

 

[DawgTchrr]

Yes the GV unit does not work with the 205 slip yoke output shaft as the 1031 has. Anyone have a 205 fixed yoke output shaft 32 spline? Looks like this is costing more than I intended as I'll need one and the new drive shaft build.

 

[Dave Kay]

Yes the GV unit does not work with the 205 slip yoke output shaft as the 1031 has. Anyone have a 205 fixed yoke output shaft 32 spline? Looks like this is costing more than I intended as I'll need one and the new drive shaft build.

Maybe I'm kinda thick-headed, but let me see if I can understand what you have... my 208 T-case uses the same spline count at final output shaft as TH400 trans, forget the number of splines, along with a GV coupler placed at the end of adapter which mates with GV unit. Then, GV unit has provided slip yoke to mate to drive shaft of same spline count of final output shaft in GV unit. IN other words, the slip yoke on my drive shaft is the same spline count as would go into TH400 trans without a t-case in between.

So you are saying that the 205 t-case DOES NOT have a slip yoke like the 208, but a fixed yoke? I get the impression that you bought a used GV unit, and not from GV in El Cajon. Can you possibly post some pictures so we can see what you are working with?

 

[DawgTchrr]

What I'm trying to say is that I need to change out the rear output of the transfer case from a slip Yoke shaft to a shorter fixed yoke shaft.
My NP205 on the 1031 has an output shaft for a slip yoke connection to the drive shaft. The Gear Vendor adaptor that bolts to the transfer case must have the shorter fixed yoke output shaft to work. GV does not make an adaptor for the longer slip yoke shaft design. So to couple the adaptor to the transfer case I will need to change out the rear output shaft on the 205 transfer case because the coupling of the GV adaptor and adaptor case is too short for the longer original output shaft.

 

[U1100L]

Ebay, there is a vendor called dan's gears might be your best bet.Tried all the bone yards within reason ,when scrap went high all got junked. Even had GV call the guys they know in CA and they were surprised at how much it has dried up.

 

[DawgTchrr]

Overdrive now installed on my M1031 and on the road. Two pics show how close the output is to the PTO bearing assembly, third shows the fixed rear output on the transfer case. My driveshaft needs balancing and maybe needs a total reweld, but it does work. Speed odometer is way off so I need to call GV to see if I can get a different gear set for the 4.56 rear. I was able change the rear output of the transfer case without pulling out the whole unit.

 

[Dave Kay]

Overdrive now installed on my M1031 and on the road. Two pics show how close the output is to the PTO bearing assembly, third shows the fixed rear output on the transfer case. My driveshaft needs balancing and maybe needs a total reweld, but it does work. Speed odometer is way off so I need to call GV to see if I can get a different gear set for the 4.56 rear. I was able change the rear output of the transfer case without pulling out the whole unit.

BRAVO~! After my install the speedo was off too even tho I gave GV all needed info, rear axle ratio, tire size, whatever, so they sent me another nylon gear--- don't recall the tooth count, but as fate would have it at the same time my speedo-in-dash went kaput completely. So can't really help you on that. However the drive-line length is critical they say so if you have work done in it be sure to make careful measurements--- 6 over times at least~! You'll be rewarded with a nice smooth drive train.

Regards

 

[Iceman3005]

Looks like a lot of problems to install the GV unit. I have done 20 or more 700r4 swaps, usually cost's only about 1200 dollars for the total bill. I can have the whole swap done in about 10 hours, don't have to shorten or lengthen driveshafts and only have to run two wires for torque convertor lockup, one for constant power and other for manual lockup in 2nd and 3rd. A lot cheaper than spending $3000, having a wiring headache, and much more simple than the GV unit.

Just my opinion though, I hope you guys are happy with yours. One of my neighbors had one installed on his camper two years ago, he had nothing but problems so he removed it and sold it.

 

[natem]

Looks like a lot of problems to install the GV unit. I have done 20 or more 700r4 swaps, usually cost's only about 800 dollars for the total bill. I can have the whole swap done in about 10 hours, don't have to shorten or lengthen driveshafts and only have to run two wires for torque convertor lockup, one for constant power and other for manual lockup in 2nd and 3rd. A lot cheaper than spending $3000, having a wiring headache, and much more simple than the GV unit.

Just my opinion though, I hope you guys are happy with yours. One of my neighbors had one installed on his camper two years ago, he had nothing but problems so he removed it and sold it.

A comprehensive "how to" thread would be nice. I happen to like my gear vendors OD, but if I could do a tranny swap for less with comparable or better performance I'm in.

 

[trukhead]

Looks like a lot of problems to install the GV unit. I have done 20 or more 700r4 swaps, usually cost's only about 800 dollars for the total bill. I can have the whole swap done in about 10 hours, don't have to shorten or lengthen driveshafts and only have to run two wires for torque convertor lockup, one for constant power and other for manual lockup in 2nd and 3rd. A lot cheaper than spending $3000, having a wiring headache, and much more simple than the GV unit.

Just my opinion though, I hope you guys are happy with yours. One of my neighbors had one installed on his camper two years ago, he had nothing but problems so he removed it and sold it.

Do you do these for customers? Such as R & R the tranny and such. Does the NP 205 fit on the 700r4? Is the NP 208 difficult to overhaul?

 

[Iceman3005]

At: Trukhead and Natem, Here is the link to one of my builds, I don't want to hyjack this thread. Yes I know links can go dead, sorry.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...ersion-from-turbo-400-NP208-too-a-700r4-NP205

 

[Dave Kay]

Looks like a lot of problems to install the GV unit. I have done 20 or more 700r4 swaps, usually cost's only about 800 dollars for the total bill. I can have the whole swap done in about 10 hours, don't have to shorten or lengthen driveshafts and only have to run two wires for torque convertor lockup, one for constant power and other for manual lockup in 2nd and 3rd. A lot cheaper than spending $3000, having a wiring headache, and much more simple than the GV unit.

Just my opinion though, I hope you guys are happy with yours. One of my neighbors had one installed on his camper two years ago, he had nothing but problems so he removed it and sold it.

Thought I should respond because some might get the negative impression that GV units are not worth the money spent, which I believe would be wrong.

For one thing they ARE NOT difficult to install in stock vehicles, if you have some wrenching experience and follow instructions, it is doable in a day. Otherwise, a modified trans setup may create deviations which may cause functional issues. However, a simple call to GV and you will find that their tech/product support is positively first class. Had some minor issues with my install that drove me a little batty at first but most were simple switch/wire/grounding problems which were my fault. You can have confidence that after plunking down $3K this product is very well supported, plus a full two year warranty.

The actual functioning of the unit is amazingly simple: it's either on or it's off. An electronic control box uses the vehicle's stock inputs to automate the units on/off function. All switches/inputs/grounds must be installed as per instructions and the AUTO feature works flawlessly.

Sans that, you may just install a simple rocker switch and turn the overdrive on/off manually meaning, you don't need the electronic control box. But be advised that without the electronic control box's AUTO function, e., g.,---you go with ONLY a manual switch--- you must adhere to certain speed and reverse restrictions or unit could suffer damage. Having learned these quirks gives me confidence that if sometime the unit quits I'll know WHERE and HOW to trace the obvious without having to call for a tow, which has not happened in nearly a year of hard on and off-road use.

Secondly, because our trucks all come equipped w/stock, low-performance, NA 6.2's, it depends on what one's ultimate goal is for installing a GV. For me it is to have the best AUTO gear-splitting trans out there and combining it with a stout 4L80e, which will net me 2.62 final output, giving me on-road as well as off road capabilities unsurpassed by anything but say NV4500 swap, a costly refit in itself. My goal is to get engine RPMs down to a comfy 1600 to 1800 range for cruising and longevity, plus, a near future install of waste-gated turbo to take advantage of those low torque R's for off-road hill climbing, or whatever.

Also, IMHO, I differ on your opinion about shortening/lengening drive shafts. Any trans swap from other than the same R&R-ed unit should be accompanied with driveline length measurements for slip yoke travel. Not only to nave a smooth vibration free drive train but to prevent premature wear at final output shaft and possible binding or breakage, especially for lifted trucks.

Practically, I needed to make my truck into a roadworthy daily driver also capable of beating down 16 miles of rocky/sandy desert service roads to reach my jobsite--- ASAP. The cost of GV unit was $3K plus $500 for a topline, custom aluminum driveshaft, install cost nothing. Brand new set of 32" tires another $500+, total about $4K. Prior to GV install my MPG's were 10 to low teens and 55 mph was screaming. After GV install getting a steady & repeatable 17 MPG combined city/highway cruising @ 65mph turning 2100 to 2300 RPM. Cost of fuel savings should pay for my GY unit within approximately one year.

Hope I gave some a few positives to consider if thinking about getting a GV unit.

Regards

 

[Dave Kay]

At: Trukhead and Natem, Here is the link to one of my builds, I don't want to hyjack this thread. Yes I know links can go dead, sorry.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...ersion-from-turbo-400-NP208-too-a-700r4-NP205

BTW: nice install writeup--- Good stuff~!

 

[Iceman3005]

Also, IMHO, I differ on your opinion about shortening/lengening drive shafts. Any trans swap from other than the same R&R-ed unit should be accompanied with driveline length measurements for slip yoke travel. Not only to nave a smooth vibration free drive train but to prevent premature wear at final output shaft and possible binding or breakage, especially for lifted trucks.

Practically, I needed to make my truck into a roadworthy daily driver also capable of beating down 16 miles of rocky/sandy desert service roads to reach my jobsite--- ASAP. The cost of GV unit was $3K plus $500 for a topline, custom aluminum driveshaft, install cost nothing. Brand new set of 32" tires another $500+, total about $4K. Prior to GV install my MPG's were 10 to low teens and 55 mph was screaming. After GV install getting a steady & repeatable 17 MPG combined city/highway cruising @ 65mph turning 2100 to 2300 RPM. Cost of fuel savings should pay for my GY unit within approximately one year.

Hope I gave some a few positives to consider if thinking about getting a GV unit.

Regards

Yes, having to be able to split gears would be nice when towing or when off road. As for the drive shaft length the 700r4-NP208 comination is only a 1/2 an inch longer than the turbo 400-NP208 so no drive shaft modification is necessary, if the customer is concerned about driveline vibration I take the shafts to a drive shaft shop for balancing. Also $1200 is a lot more reasonable of a cost for most people compared to the $4000 you spent. If one does the work themselves the 700r4 swap is around $700.

Parts break down:
new flywheel: $75
Used trans: $100
Used transfer case: $100 (should include adapter)
Lockup kit for torque convertor: $100 (includes new soleniod)
New torque convertor: $350 (1200 stall)
New front pump/torque convertor seal: $25 (I always replace it since trans is out, just in case it is bad)

These prices are what I find at junk yards around me or someone selling on craiglist, prices may be less or more for your area.

The 700r4 np208 combo will put rpm's at 1900 at 55mph, and 2800 rpm's at 70 mph. Also my fuel mileage ( I can not speak for others that have done this swap), Is about 18-22 mpg depending on if I do 55 a lot or drive on the freeway at 70.

Yes your GV unit seems to be pretty stout and does offer overdrive, plus the added benefit of splitting gears, but for the cost it just doesn't seem worth it to me. My shop is all about customer service and saving them money, I see it all to often individuals getting ripped off by other shops and phony claims about products they see or hear about on the internet. After watching my neighbor and his experience with the GV unit, I wanted to make sure my customers and others explore all other options first, especially since $4000 is a lot of money.

 

[stahlfaust]

I am currently thinking about getting a GV unit for my M1009 as well. I could buy a NOS Laycock P Type Main Unit (which is identical to a GV, GV just rebranded that stuff) for about 900$. I feel confident to program the wiring and electronics with an arduino by myself. So things to look for would be CV drive shaft and a TH400 adapter for the Gear Vendors (output shaft on the NP208 should be identical according to this thread).

This would greatly lower the prive for the GV installation so it could compete with the 700r4 swap - but is it worth it on an M1009? How will my MPG be and will I have a better max speed?

 

[Dave Kay]

I am currently thinking about getting a GV unit for my M1009 as well. I could buy a NOS Laycock P Type Main Unit (which is identical to a GV, GV just rebranded that stuff) for about 900$. I feel confident to program the wiring and electronics with an arduino by myself. So things to look for would be CV drive shaft and a TH400 adapter for the Gear Vendors (output shaft on the NP208 should be identical according to this thread).

This would greatly lower the prive for the GV installation so it could compete with the 700r4 swap - but is it worth it on an M1009? How will my MPG be and will I have a better max speed?

Mostly, I can't speak to going GV unit in the M1009 because it seems few guys have done it. The reason I suspect is because 1009's have a pretty good road-worthy final output, meaning, a rear axle geared for 3:73 (correct me if I'm wrong) which gives decent freeway speeds & mileage. Wanting better MPG's, highway speeds etc., is the reason I believe a lot of guys go with 700R swaps for 1009's.

With M1008 rear axles are 4:56 which is great for low speed crawling and climbing--- a capability I want the truck to keep. On highway this great option w/TH40 trans gives you safe 50-55 mph and anything faster makes engine revs--- in my humble opinion--- too high. Some guys swear 2500 to 2700 rpm's all day is fine on 6.2's engines but I don't agree, based on the Diesel Page 6.2/6.5 book series I've collected.

For that reason I opted for the GV unit which is a relatively easy bolt-on and then later, I plan to do the 4L80 trans swap for my TH400... probably about another $2000 cost-wise but for my purposes it will be a long-distance drive-able truck on freeway as well as a crawler on trails.

BTW: NP208 adapter for the Gear Vendors by itself, might be hard to find and it will cost you prolly' $400 all on its own. Buying a used GV unit ALSO may be a headache because you cannot know IF or HOW it may have been abused... the GV dealer there in SoCal will be reluctant to rebuild and warranty a used unit so you really have to know the history of any unit you're buying used... hope that helped.

 

[scottladdy]

Gear Vendors 4x4 Lockout Issue Resolved

It turned out to be a bad ground and the 4x4 lockout tapped into the wrong wire. I ran a new wire for the ground when I got home from the ground block on the firewall to the inside the cab to the unit. It still was not working so I called GV and spoke with a guy named Mike. He was very helpful and patient. He walked me thru a few things and then stayed on the phone with me while I took it out and drove it. It still was not engaging so he had me pull over and disconnect the 4x4lockout from the controller and try it again. That was it. It kicked in and I had the biggest grin on my face. I'll drive it tomorrow to work and see how it does.

The instructions say to tap into the white wire going to the transfer case shifter except for Fords which will be a colored wire for the 4x4 lockout connection. Apparently that is not correct for the CUCV for anyone else installing one. I thought about putting a test light on it before connecting it, but I didn't.

Overall the install is very simple and I hope I enjoy my upcoming miles as much as I did my 10 miles tonight. I'll report back after getting some miles on it.

Resurrecting an old thread since I don't believe the issue with getting the 4x4 lockout feature to function properly on the Gear Vendors in a CUCV has ever been addressed.

RESOLUTION: The +12V feed to the overdrive computer must be connected to a source which is not energized during engine start/cranking.

When I first installed the unit I was having the same behavior described where, if the blue lockout wire was tapped into the white 4WD indicator light wire (this is the proper connection for the CUCV) the overdrive computer would not engage the overdrive. I also had to disconnect the lockout in order for the unit to operate which of course disabled the automatic lockout feature on the computer. Since we are all human and someone may forget to manually disengage the unit when in 4WD I deemed this an unacceptable mode of operation as serious drive-train damage could result.

Working with Mike from Gear Vendors we very quickly determined I had the overdrive computer +12V power supply connected to a 12V supply which remained energized during starter cranking (IGN). We determined this by observing the light on the under dash control panel which was but should not be lit during cranking. The Gear Vendors instructions clearly state that the unit may not operate properly if it receives +12V during engine start. I switched the feed to a tap on the wiper circuit which does not remain energized during engine start and have been running the unit for 5+ years without issue.

I cannot recommend the Gear Vendors highly enough if your needs match what the unit provides. Driving the truck is fully automatic unless you want to take control (gear splitting etc). I retain the 4.56 rear end ratio, keep the dead simple and very solid TH400 transmission, achieve a 3.56 final ratio, and have an OD which, if it fails, will likely fail in a mode which will not leave me stranded. My experiences match very well with what richpres posted here: CUCV M1028 / Gear Vendor Info & Installation Results


Hoping this helps anyone facing the same issues or contemplating installing a Gear Vendors.