generator to run house and well

[drjconley]

I did a few searches and couldnt find what I am looking for. I live in the country and have my own well. When I loose power I would like to have enough power to pump water for the house and run four refridgerators with out haveing to turn off all of the house lights. I would like a generator that would be wired into a manual switch so I could just throw the switch from PG&E to generator and be done with it. I think what I am asking for is a generator that is not three phase, puts out 220v 50-60 Hz, and would be in the 30,000 watt or higher range. If what I am asking for makes no sense, I have no problem with being edjucated.
Thank you,
Jim Conley

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Hey Jim,
My co-worker is working out this same problem right now. We are bidding on a generator for her.

As far as I know, when you start getting into generators 15kw and up, you will find 3 phase. Not too much of an issue, you would just have to have balance the loads accross the 3 phases. You would have to get a 3 phase breaker panel and split the circuits through that. Would take some thinking, but not too hard.

 

[drjconley]

Ferro, thanks for the reply. I wasnt aware that I would be able to use a three phase generator on the house. How big of a generator are you thinking of using? Are you going to leave it portable, or are you going to hard wire it to the panel?

Jim Conley

 

[swbradley1]

I would think that an LP version from Home Depot in the 17KW range would do you just fine.

Everything in our house including a well pump runs off a single phase 220-240 100Amp service and our whole house is electric everything.....

A 12KW (continuous) generator would handle ours. Now if you have a 200 or the newer 400 AMP service you need to plan accordingly.


Although doable I personally would not want the aggravation of converting from 3-phase to single phase. I like using things the way they were designed (maybe exceeding capacity bu that's a different story).

 

[drjconley]

swbradley, I agree that an LP generator would be the cleanest and easiest. I am just a little shocked how expensive a new LP generator in the 20 Kw range is. I was hopeing that I could do it cheaper with out it becomeing a real pain. Thanks for your help.
Jim Conley

 

[Blythewoodjoe]

I am not sure I understand exactly what you are looking for but I will tell you what I have. 30 KW is huge.

I have a 8 KW generator on my welder and I have my house wired to run off the generator. I plug my generator into the house, flip the main breaker in the pannel box, then flip the disconnect the plug is attached to. I can power up to 30 amps at 230 volts this way, which will run my pump and a couple of refrigerators if had more than one and many lights. I can run my AC if I don't run anything else. I can run most any applicance, just not more than one.

Again, I must be missing something here but 30 KW will run A LOT more than your pump and few refrigerators. My welder new was only $2500 years ago and it is modern and very dependable, the only down side is it's gas. Hobart, miller and lincoln all make a similar model. I have always avoided military surplus generators because generators are very fickle and I just don't trust most of the stuff I have seen up for auction and the hertz might not be right either. And I don't know enought to feel confident in my purchase.

Good luck,
Joe

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I'm going to leave it on the trailer. I figure if I can get it cheap enough, the hassle of phase conversion might be worth it. I have several 3 phase pieces of equipment for my shop, and used a motor generator to run them in Norfolk off of single phase.

I was thinking of building the same thing, only backwards, I have a large 3 phase motor, get another, wire it up to generate single phase 240 (it can be done, I have seen plans and examples)

But then I'm running a generator, to run a generator, to power my house. Not too efficent, but it would work.

I like Joe's method, I have used a welder to do the same thing before. Plus then you have a welder too. Wish I could find a good one cheap. ditto on a diesel.

Swbradley is right on with the 17kw unit from HD, if you got the mula to spring for it.

30kw is quite a lot of power. Sell some to the neighbors?

 

[brianrbull]

I would recommend a MEP-003a 10kw, in the ASK if you can find one, they can generate single phaze 110/220 that size should easily run your 'reefers and a household well pump, You should have some power to spare. 30kw provides 110+ amps per leg(3x) That should be enough power for 2 or 3 houses running full tilt. The down side is parts availability...

 

[ken]

I have a MEP-003 10KW. That during hurricane IKE ran everything. Including the 3TON central A/C. With plenty of power to spare. It never got above 65% on the load guage. I had no power problems at all. The only difference between it and HL&P was listening to it running outside and refueling it. It used 1.1 gallons per hour. It is capeable of 3 phase power but there is a handy switch for single phase output. It ran for 2 weeks strait except for oil and filter changes. The kiddo got tired on pouring jerry cans of fuel into it. So i'd sudjest a AUX tank. It has a place to tie into the fuel system for that.

 

[papercu]

MEP-003 10KW. That during hurricane IKE ran everything. Including the 3TON central A/C. With plenty of power to spare

That is very good for a 10kw they are usually only rated at around 40 amps.
For best result on generators you need to know the amps you are going to use and then find a generator to match, this is one case when bigger is not better.
Most military generator are not fuel efficient and very noisy. Wayne

 

[tmbrwolf]

IAW the operator manual for the MEP-003A 10KW DED gen set for planning, operating use is 8.72 gallons for 8 hours of operation or 1.09 GPH, Ken's post verifys that at 1.1 GPH. at 120V single phase they are rated at 104 amps, 120 / 240 single phase at 52 amps, and 120 / 208 three phase at 34.7 amps. (for the 102 / 240 and the 120 / 208 that is for hot each leg). this would easily run a well pump and the refer / freezer, it could run a 4 ton or smaller AC if you are careful. (I'm more worried about freezing in the winter!)

 

[m38inmaine]

Gas generators are rated at alot less amps because they don't have the torque necessary. My 8kw Isuzu diesel generator is rated at 62A @120v. A military 10k is more than enough to run a house.

 

[NDT]

My little pipsqueak 1.5 kw military generator ran my house including refrigerator for a week during hurricane Ike, but not the central AC which we did not need. My measurements show the AC draws 15 amps running, so the MEP002A which just arrived from Tobyhanna should keep me in the cool for this year's hurricanes. For your refriges, a 10 kw MEP003A will be more than enough. If you want to run with LP, get a PE95 with the jeep engine, that is rated at 10kw also.

 

[adrianspeeder]

I plug my generator into the house, flip the main breaker in the pannel box, then flip the disconnect the plug is attached to.

Major code/safety fail for the reason of someone forgitting to flip the main and then backfeedin to the transformer killin' the lineman tryin' to fix the problem in the first place.

I use a three way transfer switch to tie into the panel.

Adrianspeeder

 

[dirtyfingernails]

The mep003 is rated just over 100 amps (like 102 or something). My service into the house I live in is 100 amp (old house). When I test run my Mep003 every 3 months, I plug it into the house, run it, and turn just about everything on in my house at the same time (AC/oven/stove/dryer/washer, etc.). The genset handles it easily at a rated load of about 60 to 75 percent. I had a double throw breaker installed and a pin and sleeve plug to make hooking it up easy and protect the guys on the lines. I have two of the mep003s and love them! Just my 2 cents.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Major code/safety fail for the reason of someone forgitting to flip the main and then backfeedin to the transformer killin' the lineman tryin' to fix the problem in the first place.

I use a three way transfer switch to tie into the panel.

Adrianspeeder

I agree with Adrianspeeder, while it's real nice to have the standby power, let's do it right....make sure your are disconnected from the utility when using your genset. A transfer switch is required!

 

[TheBuggyman]

Alright, I'll throw in my two cents....


We just finished our house last October and part of my design criteria was a fully automated monitoring and switching system to provide power to my entire property in the event of a utility outage. We have 400 amp service to our place so I chose to use an Asco brand transfer switch rated at 400 amps. I like the Asco for its ease of use and simple design. This switch monitors power loss but also phase inbalance, swell and sag. ( no more brownouts ). It will automatically start the gen if required, continue to monitor incoming utility and will automatically re-transfer to utility after a 30 minute period of stable incoming power. After transfer to utility the gen will have a five minute cool down before turning off. This comes at a cost, I paid about $2400 for my switch alone. All switching is open transition and from what I understand unless you have special permission it is illegal to do a closed transition.

Now, propane is the easiest to do but look at the BTU content of one gallon of propane to one gallon of diesel. The diesel has about 30% more giddy up per gallon, this translates to less fuel per KW. Guess it depends on how much your power goes out to see how long the payback would be.......

We used a 30KW gen and I can tell you that it is overkill. 20KW would be fine. Some things to consider are:
1) Do I want to power everything?
2) Do I have heat pumps or a gas furnace?
3) Do I have an electric stove and do I want to cook when the power is out?

Remember, if you have a heat pump and the unit goes into defrost, that strip heater that comes on can be from 5 to 10 KW by itself.

My 30 KW gen can put out 150 amps at 240 volts. And note: KW size does not dictate single or three phase as most generators are field configurable for different voltages and phases.

I did a test not too long ago and ran both heat pumps (5 tons total), both stoves, the well pump, the dryer, hot water heater and alot of lights and I was only drawing 90 amps! I built my system so that if I'm not home my wife and babies will never even know the power is off. The gen has a 150 gallon subbase tank which will allow the gen to run at 1/2 load for six days. (don't quote me on that one, but I'm pretty close.)

 

[papercu]

240 single phase at 52 amps

AC is going to be 220v and whatever amps it pulls running you need to add 3 times that for starting it. 3 ton AC would be on a 20amp breaker that leaves you 30 to run the hot tub and the beer coolers. 10kw is still about at it limit. You stiill need to figure what you need and go from there. Wayne

 

[abh3]

Did the calculations here w/ several buildings, heat pumps, window units in barn-loft, pool, well, washer/dryer, etc, not to mention heat strips in HVAC if it's cold, and wound up with better than 40kw at start load. Sure, EVERYTHING will never start at the same time but I wanted to be able to do what I wanted post-hurricane or ice-storm. Opal really sucked with only a 3500 watt generator for a week, nothing like running a chainsaw all day and then sweating all night under a box-fan while the Briggs & Stratton genset howled and churned outside! So I've got a 40kw set, the only cost for excess here is fuel, it's not a full time thing, just emergencies so what the hey... Figure what you want/have to run and do your load calculations.

Also, three phase is a problem for residential use. Yes, you can pull 120v off each leg but the sine waves are off for 240v, those appliances will not last long in that environment! Look around, there ARE bigger single phase gensets out there, usually '12 wire' that are configurable to different outputs...

I used a Cutler Hamner (sp?) 400 amp manual switch as this rig is for extended outages, don't need auto switching as the power is out regularly around here for 5-10 minutes at a time, got it on Ebay for $100 or so in almost new condition... The switch is mandatory, don't play with linemen's lives wiring a generator into your panel and just flipping your main breaker to 'off'!!

 

[TheBuggyman]

Sure, EVERYTHING will never start at the same time but I wanted to be able to do what I wanted post-hurricane or ice-storm.

Figure what you want/have to run and do your load calculations.

The switch is mandatory, don't play with linemen's lives wiring a generator into your panel and just flipping your main breaker to 'off'!!

My thoughts exactly!