Getting started from scratch with a Deuce in 2024?

[kurtomatic]

Welcome to the weekend, everyone.

Total noob here, starting a thread here about practical considerations of attempting to start off in this hobby with a 2+ton truck. I have to say, I didn't think at first I would be all that interested in this class of vehicle; it just screamed overkill. But as I'm quickly learning, there is no such thing as overkill! I mean, seriously, it honestly looks hard to do much in military surplus world without a strategy:

1. There are some small bits like a pallet generators, fork lifts, or similarly useful shop gear that I definitely will want on my shopping list, but just aren't a high priority at the moment.

2. Then there's the whole Humvee game, which does look attractive. The 2-door/soft top/truck body style has a lot of appeal as a practical, useful vehicle for me. With one glaring exception--you can't tow anything useful with it. If I could safely tow a water buffalo behind a Humvee, I would be all over that. You can't, and I get it.

3. For everything else, it just seems to a newbie like me that the Deuce is the center of the remaining MV universe. I mean, sure, I don't really need a crazy 6x6 truck, but if I did have one, what kind of crazy amazing things could I do with it? The military clearly made great use of this platform for so many different things. Owning one of these just solves a lot of problems owning and operating other equipment, towables in particular.

So I'm coming around to this idea of starting with a Deuce (or a similar class truck) pretty hard at this point. The questions is, if I need something I can at least make minimal use of without a multi-month shop project, is there a practical means of doing this in 2024 without spending way too much? I don't have any special requirements, other than a good value on a basic working truck that I can get fancy with farther down the line when I know what I am doing.

There are a number of vehicles in this class to consider, and I am still a little lost. For the older Deuces this forum is about, most of the ones available that I am seeing are AM General M25As of one flavor or another.

Are these what I should be looking at? As a reference, if I wanted to avoid the Iron Planet lottery, Eastern Surplus has a few barebones M35A2s each listed for $14.75K. So that seems like today's retail entry point price, ready to go with a state title. That coincidentally is right up near the top of my justifiable cost limit. I don't want to overpay, but there is value having all the paperwork and obvious mechanical issues sorted from Day 1.

Of the current Iron Planet listings, the most interesting one is a '70 M35A2 in Granbury Texas. The full listing won't go live until Thursday, but it already has nearly 500 people watch listing it!

Any advice or reality checks are welcome.

Cheers, and Happy New Years!

 

[SCM35A2]

My first truck was a 1964 M35A2 with the multi-fuel engine/turbo set up. I got my truck from a wholesale dealer out of NC so I was able to go look at it & do a test drive as well too. I paid $5000 for it & another $600 to have it transported to me, but to date I've dumped well over $8000 in her lol. Now this has taken me 4 years to get her to this point & at any point she was drivable. I just wanted to completely go through the truck & bring her back to her former glory to parades & truck shows. If I did it all over again I'd go the same route, my truck came with a hardtop & a front winch however I had to add a heater unit & the air-assisted transfer case. Here she is...

 

[canadacountry]

welcome @kurtomatic and I too have liked the M35, and if you didn't know this before a M36 is basically a stretched-a-few-feet-longer M35 as otherwise basically its all the same parts (minus the extended chassis frame itself and whatever makes up the bed load)

just be mindful that as much as the Continental/White multifuel engine is quite commonplace there were a few M35 that had a gasoline engine instead back then .. there is a bit of visual difference around the hood to tell them apart factory-wise but its best to just simply quickly look at the data plate itself and the actual engine itself naturally

although maybe it would be overkill to you or not I'll mention that the M35 series would had been upsized to the M39 series (bigger gasoline-or-multifuel engine block), the M809 series shared the party (although it only had a purely-diesel Cummins engine) before the party was replaced by the M939 series instead which as you may have guessed was a 'bigger M809' .. just so you can understand these other numbers you might see too when you're looking at trucks listings

have fun on this forum allright? and yeah I indeed am quite north from you and wondering about why there was nearly no snow right on xmas hehe oh well?!

 

[kurtomatic]

My first truck was a 1964 M35A2 with the multi-fuel engine/turbo set up. I got my truck from a wholesale dealer out of NC so I was able to go look at it & do a test drive as well too. I paid $5000 for it & another $600 to have it transported to me, but to date I've dumped well over $8000 in her lol. Now this has taken me 4 years to get her to this point & at any point she was drivable.

That is an awesome truck, thanks so much for sharing that. You are still into that for barely over the retail price Eastern Surplus is asking for.

 

[kurtomatic]

and yeah I indeed am quite north from you and wondering about why there was nearly no snow right on xmas hehe oh well?!

I woke up a couple of times this week with ice melting off my car's windshield. Does that count?

 

[kurtomatic]

One of the posts here I found here from over a decade ago still seems to largely apply to my situation: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/so-you-want-a-mil-truck-here-is-what-they-cost.90811/.

Here is the money quote from his summary, in my opinion:

Summary of what I learned for non-mechanically inclined Newbies:

First trucks / newbies should purchase from a steel soldier who is honest and up front about what works and what doesn’t and is willing to provide vehicle usage training during pickup.

Auctions should be left to veterans who already have owned an MV before. The money you save at auction is not worth the risk. Your second truck could be an auction truck, just not the first.

Rankings by total cost of ownership (lowest first)

M35a2
M54 series (if you plan to use multi-fuel)
M800 series (250 Cummins)
M900 series (registered antique)
M35a3
M900 series (newer model )

Rankings for Truck Newbies

M35a2 (If you can drive stick shift this is the truck)
M35a3 (automatic)
5 tons – not recommended

All of that reinforces that a M35A2 (multifuel) is my primary target. The only thing that really seems to have changed is prices and, perhaps, availability.

 

[M35fan]

One of the posts here I found here from over a decade ago still seems to largely apply to my situation: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/so-you-want-a-mil-truck-here-is-what-they-cost.90811/.

Here is the money quote from his summary, in my opinion:



All of that reinforces that a M35A2 (multifuel) is my primary target. The only thing that really seems to have changed is prices and, perhaps, availability.

That is an excellent thread. The prices have gone up a bit (like everything else) but it gives a good idea of "hidden" costs that you might not think about.

M35s are still out there, in private hands. They pop up in the Steel Soldiers classifieds pretty often. I've seen prices for good running trucks from $8-15K. It all depends on what condition the truck is in, and how many desirable options it has (such as pto winch, hard top, air shift transfer case, etc). Finding one that is local to you would be ideal, but it requires patience. I found mine one state over, and I was able to drive it home, which saved shipping. Good luck with your search.

 

[Elk1111]

There’s still some good deals out there but please remember….was running when parked means it’s not running now and make sure the engine is cold and the truck isn’t running when you show up to look at one.
Have the seller start it after you arrive without starting fluid.

 

[HDN]

I'd try to find a truck with dual-circuit brakes. Some M35A2 trucks and all M35A3 trucks were built like that. Single-circuit works, and I've driven a few old trucks set up like that, but I personally prefer the redundancy. There's no point in going if you can't control the stop!

If I did it again under more-favorable circumstances, I'd get a M939 5-ton or an MTV. They have full air brakes and some parts on them have longer service intervals than on the M35 trucks on the account of just being truckier. They also have more cargo space and towing capacity. But now you're talking trucks that weigh over 20000 lbs empty and get 3-4 MPG (to me, though, it's the SPM (smiles per mile) that matter most!).

That said, I love my M35A3 and take comfort in knowing that the tools I've bought to work on it will also work with heavier vehicles I may get in the future

 

[canadacountry]

I guess the only one small caveat toward what @HDN said is, air-over-hydraulic brakes is still considered hydraulic brakes in many places but pure air brakesystems on the other hand legally requires an extra endorsement on your driving license regardless of your vehicle's weightdata plates

 

[kurtomatic]

I'd try to find a truck with dual-circuit brakes. Some M35A2 trucks and all M35A3 trucks were built like that.

Thanks for that nugget of wisdom! I'm seeing more A3s at better prices than I thought I would, so I'm increasing my focus on the A3.

..pure air brakesystems on the other hand legally requires an extra endorsement on your driving license regardless of your vehicle's weightdata plates

I live full-time in a 39-ft Class A diesel coach on a Freightliner chassis. So the whole air brake thing is a solved problem for me.

 

[RedNBlue]

There is a lot of good information from experienced members before my reply. The comment on air brakes and licensing might be a thing in some places, but not in all. State laws will vary as imnsure you're aware. Licensing and insurance for a military surplus vehicle can be tricky, so I would recommend looking into what's necessary before you make a purchase, just so you're not caught off guard.

I just got into my M35A2 in mid-2022. I wasnt shying away from a project vehicle, and figured it would be the best way for me to learn about it as I fix things, which helped keep my purchase price lower. I bought a running truck and drove it home, but it wasn't perfect. It's a project vehicle now since I'm fixing things and ensuring it will run for many years into the future. If you are patient, do your due diligence, and maybe get a little lucky, you can certainly get into a good deuce for under $14k, or get one into good shape for less.

Welcome, and good luck!

 

[98G]

Thanks for that nugget of wisdom! I'm seeing more A3s at better prices than I thought I would, so I'm increasing my focus on the A3.

I live full-time in a 39-ft Class A diesel coach on a Freightliner chassis. So the whole air brake thing is a solved problem for me.

The things to think about on the M35A3 is the automatic transmission and the Cat engine.

My preference is a manual transmission.

I've got nothing bad to say about the CAT other than expense.

AlReal air brakes are a substantial upgrade, even over the dual circuit brakes.

All things considered, my #1 choice is a 939series truck, even though it has an automatic transmission.

TX requires an enhanced license for the heavier 5ton that they don't for the deuce, but presumably you've already got that covered with your heavy RV.

Take your time. Get fully educated and make an informed decision.

 

[kurtomatic]

The things to think about on the M35A3 is the automatic transmission and the Cat engine.

I understand there is an increased cost-of-ownership risk with an A3, which is why I presumed to start with A2s. I'm actually completely agnostic on manual vs. automatic. Also, I already have one CAT on hand already, heh. It will really come down to price, features, and condition.

I have to say, on the whole brakes situation, I understand why many people are concerned about licensing and focus on that. I've been driving (and loving) full air brake chassis for years, and I'm not even a OTR truck driver. No, what has me double-taking is this whole "air-over-hydraulic" business. LOL, whuuut?

I love hearing that a full air conversion for a Deuce is even a thing. +++

Take your time. Get fully educated and make an informed decision.

I appreciate the clear wisdom of this advice.

However, there are multiple ways of managing risk. My thing is, I actually need useful equipment soon. I'm not looking at this as primarily a hobby thing; I cannot justify the spend just for fun. I'm trying to homestead some raw land with limited utility access (no water main), and I've got wood to chop, as they say. So I can just break down and buy even more expensive civvy gear, or I can find a working MV that can justify its cost in the budget, and build a small collection of working surplus gear around that. I'm convinced that a 2 1/2 ton truck is more than sufficient for my needs. For the right price and condition, I'll pull the trigger on something I can make use of now, and sell/trade/modify later when I know what I'm doing.

 

[HDN]

I've got nothing bad to say about the CAT other than expense.

Question: I feel like over the past few years I've read here that multifuel parts and engines are getting scarce. Are they still less costly to repair than Cat or Cummins motors at this point?

I'm not looking at this as primarily a hobby thing; I cannot justify the spend just for fun. I'm trying to homestead some raw land with limited utility access (no water main), and I've got wood to chop, as they say. So I can just break down and buy even more expensive civvy gear, or I can find a working MV that can justify its cost in the budget, and build a small collection of working surplus gear around that. I'm convinced that a 2 1/2 ton truck is more than sufficient for my needs. For the right price and condition, I'll pull the trigger on something I can make use of now, and sell/trade/modify later when I know what I'm doing.

For your needs, I suggest a 5-ton. Like the deuce, it'll be more than sufficient for your needs and more. They not only have a higher weight capacity, but the bed is also a little bigger - I think 14' long vs. 12' long for the deuce for the regular long wheelbase trucks.

The A3's weak link, in my opinion, is the automatic transmission. The Allison 1545 manual says it can handle at most a combined weight of around 25000 lbs. The MT654 on the M959 5-tons can handle around 80000 lbs, according to a quick Google search, which allows for a lot more capacity for towing compared to the A3. Since you're used to driving a Class A motorhome, I think you'd be good with the 5-ton too - just don't expect it do go down the road at 60 MPH

For where you want to establish a homestead, are there any stuck-truck hazards? Being able to get the truck out of a situation like that is kinda important

 

[98G]

I understand there is an increased cost-of-ownership risk with an A3, which is why I presumed to start with A2s. I'm actually completely agnostic on manual vs. automatic. Also, I already have one CAT on hand already, heh. It will really come down to price, features, and condition.

I have to say, on the whole brakes situation, I understand why many people are concerned about licensing and focus on that. I've been driving (and loving) full air brake chassis for years, and I'm not even a OTR truck driver. No, what has me double-taking is this whole "air-over-hydraulic" business. LOL, whuuut?

I love hearing that a full air conversion for a Deuce is even a thing. +++


I appreciate the clear wisdom of this advice.

However, there are multiple ways of managing risk. My thing is, I actually need useful equipment soon. I'm not looking at this as primarily a hobby thing; I cannot justify the spend just for fun. I'm trying to homestead some raw land with limited utility access (no water main), and I've got wood to chop, as they say. So I can just break down and buy even more expensive civvy gear, or I can find a working MV that can justify its cost in the budget, and build a small collection of working surplus gear around that. I'm convinced that a 2 1/2 ton truck is more than sufficient for my needs. For the right price and condition, I'll pull the trigger on something I can make use of now, and sell/trade/modify later when I know what I'm doing.

I wasn't clear. Full air conversion for a deuce isn't a thing. Full air begins at 939series or newer.

 

[kurtomatic]

For your needs, I suggest a 5-ton...

For where you want to establish a homestead, are there any stuck-truck hazards? Being able to get the truck out of a situation like that is kinda important

Alright, you have at least convinced me to make a cursory look at 5-ton options in the market. However, I remain pretty dubious.

There are not any real hazards, other than this is in a kind of forgotten rural pocket on the edge of town, not far from traffic at all. My road is one of those classic, narrow gravel roads where the trees occasionally over grow the top of the road itself. Not exactly sure how anyone is getting around me, but that will be true in a Deuce (or the MH) as well. I am more concerned about city driving, because I will be making trips into town for bulk water pickup. I will also be making regular runs out to a friend's place nearly 20 miles through a lot of road construction. Also, I'd have to a get that monstrosity home somehow.

 

[Jbulach]

M939 with singles will run just under 70mph. IIRC the M35a3 struggles to make it to 55

 

[HDN]

M939 with singles will run just under 70mph. IIRC the M35a3 struggles to make it to 55

That's true even with 395s. The M35A3's transmission doesn't have an overdrive. It'll just make 55 MPH with 395/85R20 tires mounted. On the stock wheels (365/80R20) it tops out at about 50 MPH. I usually cruise at about 45 MPH with the 395s on my truck so I be sure to drive it when I'm not in a hurry to go anywhere. The truck is basically my summer car so that's usually never a problem

Alright, you have at least convinced me to make a cursory look at 5-ton options in the market. However, I remain pretty dubious.

There are not any real hazards, other than this is in a kind of forgotten rural pocket on the edge of town, not far from traffic at all. My road is one of those classic, narrow gravel roads where the trees occasionally over grow the top of the road itself. Not exactly sure how anyone is getting around me, but that will be true in a Deuce (or the MH) as well. I am more concerned about city driving, because I will be making trips into town for bulk water pickup. I will also be making regular runs out to a friend's place nearly 20 miles through a lot of road construction. Also, I'd have to a get that monstrosity home somehow.

It's going to be like driving your MH to do those errands, maybe even a little easier if the MH is longer than the trucks you're considering? Also, are there any weight restrictions on the roads you'll use?

What are you using to build your homestead with? An M923 could carry cargo and tow a trailer with a backhoe or whatever on it. An M936 is a wrecker with a rotating crane, which can be useful for moving building materials, and can also tow a trailer. The wrecker weighs 36000 lbs, has plenty of hydraulics to maintain, and chugs diesel compared to even the cargo trucks.

Don't forget the MTVs too. The M1084 is a 5-ton with a hydraulic cargo handling crane on the back that can reach any part of the bed. I think that's the best of both worlds between a wrecker and a cargo truck. I'd go with that and a trailer. The M1083 is the same truck minus the crane.

 

[Jbulach]

Keep listening to us and we’ll have you wanting a hemtt in no time!

Let me drop this here…

KS - 1987 M35A2 6x6 TRUCK $17K

Dual circuit brakes, dropside bed, air shift transfer case, spin on filter conversion, 395's on aluminum MRAP rims. Clean transferable NM title. I'm having difficulty posting pics. PM me with your number or email and I'll send you a bunch.

www.steelsoldiers.com

Should be good truck with desirable options, and never heard of a bad experience with @98G