Getting started from scratch with a Deuce in 2024?

[HDN]

Keep listening to us and we’ll have you wanting a hemtt in no time!

My wife wants me to get one so that she gets to ride in a big army truck that can do 60 all day long I just need the cash and the yard to keep one now

Seriously, though, the HEMTT also has a cargo variant with a loading crane. Probably as long as you MH too! That truck is rated at 10 tons I believe.

 

[kurtomatic]

What are you using to build your homestead with? An M923 could carry cargo and tow a trailer with a backhoe or whatever on it. An M936 is a wrecker with a rotating crane, which can be useful for moving building materials, and can also tow a trailer. The wrecker weighs 36000 lbs, has plenty of hydraulics to maintain, and chugs diesel compared to even the cargo trucks.

Don't forget the MTVs too. The M1084 is a 5-ton with a hydraulic cargo handling crane on the back that can reach any part of the bed. I think that's the best of both worlds between a wrecker and a cargo truck. I'd go with that and a trailer. The M1083 is the same truck minus the crane.

Ok, this has turned into a hazing ritual, hasn't it?

The MTVs are all sexy as hell; I'd take an LMTV in a minute if I could justify the expense; which I cannot!

Keep listening to us and we’ll have you wanting a hemtt in no time!

Too late!!! I drooled over those last week.

Let me drop this here…

Thanks, I have taken a look at that listing.

I'm not actually building a residential structure any time soon. My idea for now is to simply use the land as a RV Homestead, where I keep my tax burden low and focus on getting all my infrastructure in place. I'll spend about 6 months or less out of the year living there in my RV rent free, and the rest of the year traveling.

The 5-ton stuff all appears to start out about $10K above my budget right now. Y'all need to leave me something to aspire to.

A basic, and I do mean basic, Deuce of any flavor, that is good for about 40 miles a week, hauling light equipment and pulling a water buffalo, or similar trailer load, with a top speed of 55 mph, will absolutely meet my current needs and completely justify a $10k-15K cost out of my budget. @98G 's current A2 listing is very nice, to the degree that it's priced out of my budget.

 

[98G]

Ok, this has turned into a hazing ritual, hasn't it?

The MTVs are all sexy as hell; I'd take an LMTV in a minute if I could justify the expense; which I cannot!



Too late!!! I drooled over those last week.


Thanks, I have taken a look at that listing.

I'm not actually building a residential structure any time soon. My idea for now is to simply use the land as a RV Homestead, where I keep my tax burden low and focus on getting all my infrastructure in place. I'll spend about 6 months or less out of the year living there in my RV rent free, and the rest of the year traveling.

The 5-ton stuff all appears to start out about $10K above my budget right now. Y'all need to leave me something to aspire to.

A basic, and I do mean basic, Deuce of any flavor, that is good for about 40 miles a week, hauling light equipment and pulling a water buffalo, or similar trailer load, with a top speed of 55 mph, will absolutely meet my current needs and completely justify a $10k-15K cost out of my budget. @98G 's current A2 listing is very nice, to the degree that it's priced out of my budget.

Um, @98G 'S ad has a substantial decrease in price as a result of the MRAP rims and 395's being sold off of it...

 

[ToddJK]

Can't go wrong with a classic M35A2 if you know what it is and what you're getting into. I've had two now and not a day goes by I regret owning it. If anything, I just keep spending more money on it for upgrades and maintenance. Keep an eye in the classifieds section for a deuce for sale as well as on some of the M35 FB groups, you can find a deuce significantly cheaper on there/here than you would from most surplus dealers and in some cases, way better condition for the money spent too. Just ask tons of questions about whatever truck you're interested in and if you don't know what to look for, just ask on here and see if there's a local deuce owner around you who can go with you to look at it, they typically have way more knowledge and know what kind of red flags to look for.

 

[KN6KXR]

If I were in your situation I would try to save up for a wrecker. A really good shape M936A2 would run about $25k and you go down from there the older the model and worse condition. A patient man could likely pick up a working, but maybe needing tires and paint, M543A2 for $10k. The wrecker will do more for your long term needs than anything else. Combined with a trailer like an M105A2 it'll handle all your cargo needs. It's also the "mechanics truck" and is designed to support the others. This has been my experience. My wrecker gets the least miles of my MV's but is the last I would part with given it's functionality.

 

[Karl kostman]

All very good advice for somebody looking for their first MV and a Deuce is an excellent place to start. They are not nearly as big or as intimidating as the 5 ton, they are a fair bit simpler to work on and understand the concepts behind the truck. They get darned near twice the mileage as a 5 ton, if thats a concern to you? The Deuce is a great way of learning the ways and means of owning and maintaining a larger truck. The things I looked for when I bought my first Deuce is I wanted a hard top, everyone wants a winch and if its got it when you buy it then great but remember a winch can be purchased and installed at a later date to. Duals were fine with me but again that can be changed anytime. Look the truck over very well before you commit to anything. Glass, radiator, running gear, transmission, oil level and color, whats coming out of the slobber tube? All these things need to figured into your decision. I would also go to the TMs section on this site and download all of them for this truck and study them so you know exactly what your looking at when viewing a truck. MINIMIZE to the best of your ability to know what your looking at and looking for! The last thing I will leave you with is, buy the nicest truck that you can afford, dont waste you time buying junk with the dream you will save money fixing it up, THATS NOT REALITY!! You will spend twice as much or more fixing up a junker than you will buying what you want and pay the price now.
Good luck and enjoy the chase!

 

[1SLEDHEAD]

Lots of great advice here! I am new to the MV "game" myself and purchased a 1999 M35A3 at the end of the summer. I wanted the A3 specifically because of the super singles, power steering, CAT motor for the ease of sourcing parts and finding knowledgeable mechanics (it's a bus motor), upgraded brake system, upgraded driver's seat, heated cab, and other nice features like electric wipers, sliding rear window, superior engine air filter set up, etc... I figured by the time I spent the money on an A2, even a cheap one, to upgrade it to the nicer options the A3 comes with, I'd be much better off going with the A3 initially. The Allison Transmission could be seen as a "weak link" on the A3s, but if it works when you buy the truck, flush out the fluid and change the filters and you should be fine. For 1 bad AT experience there are probably 1000+ guys that have never had issues. Unless you buy a truck that is "turn key" and all maintenance done, which you'll pay top dollar for- and rightfully so, the purchase price is just the "buy in". I paid a fair price for my truck considering the condition. It ran and "drove", but didn't stop well and needed new tires. Seller had the title and registration, which is a HUGE plus, so I made the deal happen. With the advice of this forum, I switched to the A2 wheel bearing set up, deleted the CTIS, went with the 395 tires, changed ALL the fluids, flushed the transmission and switched to Castrol TranSynd 668. I ended up installing all new brake lines and hoses, new wheel cylinders, and flushed out the old brake fluid for new DOT 5. I invested thousands of additional dollars and hundreds of hours getting the truck road worthy to the point where I feel comfortable taking my family around town. If you are mechanically inclined with a good set of tools and the TIME it takes to go through the truck from front to back, you can get a "project". If you lack in any of those categories, get a truck that is truly turn key from a reputable seller. You get what you pay for with this hobby! I've had my fair share of big boy toys in the past, but I must say that I've really enjoyed my M35A3 adventure. I've learned more about heavy equipment than I ever thought I would and have met some fantastic people from this community along the way.

 

[biscuitwhistler37]

I can't say enough about the deuce. I wanted one for years, just wasn't "practical", until it was, now I kick myself for waiting so long . This is my first MV, first diesel, and largest vehicle I've driven. Shift pattern takes a little getting used to, and it's slow in stock form, but you will not find a simpler vehicle to maintain (with the right tools). Mine is a 1969 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 W/W, Hercules engine, C turbo. Best advice I can give is buy a truck that's been and is being driven. Not necessarily daily driven, but more than "moved". Happy hunting and welcome to the happiest disease you'll ever contract!!

 

[kurtomatic]

Welp, I went a bought my 'starter' truck last weekend.

I went forward with a M35A3 that seems to suit my needs pretty well. It was cheap, and it's something between turn-key and trailer project. I drove it 230 flawless miles on the way home before the right front bearings started to go. It's a former Forestry Service truck that also did time with a VFD in Mississippi, and it came with (2) 500 gallon water tanks (with the plumbing still on them). I still have a lot to learn about it, but I really did enjoy the drive (aside from the turtle speeds on the interstate). I'll post more details once I've digested this further.



The guy I bought it from has a thing for stencil, and he covered the truck in it.

 

[Mullaney]

Welp, I went a bought my 'starter' truck last weekend.

I went forward with a M35A3 that seems to suit my needs pretty well. It was cheap, and it's something between turn-key and trailer project. I drove it 230 flawless miles on the way home before the right front bearings started to go. It's a former Forestry Service truck that also did time with a VFD in Mississippi, and it came with (2) 500 gallon water tanks (with the plumbing still on them). I still have a lot to learn about it, but I really did enjoy the drive (aside from the turtle speeds on the interstate). I'll post more details once I've digested this further.

View attachment 914424

The guy I bought it from has a thing for stencil, and he covered the truck in it.

.
You got yourself a nice looking Deuce there @kurtomatic ! So, down there in Texas you might actually have a need for a water carrier. Just BE CAREFUL with a partial fill on those tanks. You might get "Tanker Slosh" and you could easily end up on your side!

I think you got a pretty good looking truck. Yeah, I read the part about loosing the right front axle wheel bearing. It will take a bit to drive that bearing off the spindle, but hopefully it didn't eat your spindle.

Welcome to the Outfit! Be sure to download the TM's (Technical Manuals) so you can have step by step instructions on how to replace the bearings. Download the DeucePartsReference so you can buy Oil, Fuel and Air Fillters at the local NAPA store.

.

 

[kurtomatic]

..I read the part about loosing the right front axle wheel bearing. It will take a bit to drive that bearing off the spindle, but hopefully it didn't eat your spindle.

Thanks so much! I got off the highway pretty quick, and luckily I was in town. Within 5 miles of noticing the steering starting to pull, I was in a Lowe's parking lot. At no time did I hear anything unusual, and definitely no screeching or other classic bearing failure sounds. So hopefully the damage isn't too bad.

 

[KN6KXR]

Yeah those water tanks don't look like they have swash plates. Look up "free surface effect" and keep it in mind when you carry water.

If you don't know the history assume you have to change or inspect all fluids, repack all bearings, etc.. A non-contact thermometer and regular checks of the hub temps (go 50 miles and check, go 100 miles and check, etc..) will help you establish a baseline. Invest in a pneumatic grease gun and a case of grease. Read the TM on the lube points. There are a lot of them!

Looks like you have an intact CTIS system. They are awesome when working and needed with singles IMHO. They are a labor of love to keep going though. Not complicated just their own thing. I use mine often and love it most folks don't want to deal with them it seems. YMMV.

Welcome to the madness. Be careful these things can multiply once you get going the right direction on them....

 

[M35fan]

Looks like you found a good one. I'm glad you got it home safely. Enjoy!

 

[HDN]

Nice truck!

I agree with everyone else here about being super-careful with the water tanks. I've read too many stories on here about fire departments buying 2 1/2-ton trucks and overloading them with water and flipping them over. I'm a firm believer that any water tanking should really be a 5-ton duty.

The M35A3 uses special wheel bearings that were seemingly designed only for that truck to allow for a CTIS retrofit on non-CTIS M44 axles with very little modification needed for the axles. The bearings are available but cost an arm and a leg. If you want to keep the CTIS, you'll need the A3 bearings and possibly new quad seals, otherwise the axles can be converted back to the non-CTIS bearings.

The last quad seals I got from Big Mike's didn't quite fit the inner edge of the bearing cups where the bearing bore protrusions go, so beware that inferior seals may be around. I ended up re-using mine, but I'm not using CTIS on my truck anyway so it's no big deal to me.

 

[1SLEDHEAD]

I had a bearing that was a bit "blue" when I went to grease all the hubs... That was all it took for me to convert to the A2 style wheel bearings. The way the A3 CTIS set up works limits the amount of grease you can run and because I want my truck to be a driver, I called Big Mike and got the conversion set up. The CTIS was a bit of an afterthought in my opinion and doesn't seem ideal for a truck that really gets used. The A2 bearings are inexpensive and readily available. I kept all the CTIS parts so if I ever sell my truck and the new owner wants to convert it back, he'll still have that option.

 

[HDN]

I had a bearing that was a bit "blue" when I went to grease all the hubs... That was all it took for me to convert to the A2 style wheel bearings. The way the A3 CTIS set up works limits the amount of grease you can run and because I want my truck to be a driver, I called Big Mike and got the conversion set up. The CTIS was a bit of an afterthought in my opinion and doesn't seem ideal for a truck that really gets used. The A2 bearings are inexpensive and readily available. I kept all the CTIS parts so if I ever sell my truck and the new owner wants to convert it back, he'll still have that option.

I was fortunate to get a truck that had less than 4500 miles on it when I bought it. The outer bearings on the tandem axles had the grease washed off them. I don't think it was necessarily failed axle seals or corks that were the problem, but it seems the bearings weren't adjusted from the factory correctly, which the axle seal configuration is somewhat dependent on. The outer bearings were easy to clean and re-pack. There was no damage to any of the bearings or bearing cups as others have reported here with their M44A3 trucks. I think it helps that the truck belonged to a Military Mail Terminal and probably had an easy life in-service

The inner bearings, on the other hand, still had the original grease in them. They are nearly impossible to hand-pack with grease and a really small grease needle is needed for any chance to get grease through the smaller diameter-end of the bearing cage. I ended up designing and 3D printing an inner bearing packing tool specifically for M44A3 inner wheel bearings to make this process easier.

 

[1SLEDHEAD]

That's part of the reason I love these trucks so much! HDN and others designing and building custom tools to keep em on the road. It gives me a sense of pride to overcome mechanical obstacles I've faced and feeling like I've made improvements to the truck in the process. My next project is 24v to 12v converter for the cab with a 12 circuit fuse panel to power 12v power sockets and a new audio system. Why? Because figuring it all out is part of the fun!

 

[98G]

Nice truck!

I agree with everyone else here about being super-careful with the water tanks. I've read too many stories on here about fire departments buying 2 1/2-ton trucks and overloading them with water and flipping them over. I'm a firm believer that any water tanking should really be a 5-ton duty.

The M35A3 uses special wheel bearings that were seemingly designed only for that truck to allow for a CTIS retrofit on non-CTIS M44 axles with very little modification needed for the axles. The bearings are available but cost an arm and a leg. If you want to keep the CTIS, you'll need the A3 bearings and possibly new quad seals, otherwise the axles can be converted back to the non-CTIS bearings.

The last quad seals I got from Big Mike's didn't quite fit the inner edge of the bearing cups where the bearing bore protrusions go, so beware that inferior seals may be around. I ended up re-using mine, but I'm not using CTIS on my truck anyway so it's no big deal to me.

Good info on the bearings.

As to the water tanks causing trucks to flip, it isn't so much the weight as it is the slosh. A half full unbaffled tank is far more dangerous than a full one.

Using a 5ton doesn't really resolve this.

If you've never experienced it, it's quite impressive. Make a more sudden than anticipated stop, and the slosh hits you a second later, and then repeatedly every two seconds.

Milk tankers are bad for this, as they're unbaffled due to the need to be able to get them clean.

 

[biscuitwhistler37]

That's part of the reason I love these trucks so much! HDN and others designing and building custom tools to keep em on the road. It gives me a sense of pride to overcome mechanical obstacles I've faced and feeling like I've made improvements to the truck in the process. My next project is 24v to 12v converter for the cab with a 12 circuit fuse panel to power 12v power sockets and a new audio system. Why? Because figuring it all out is part of the fun!

Honestly, a setup like this is waaaaaaaaay easier. The switches have push button style breakers and are 12v or 24v capable and illuminated. To each their own though, like you said, figuring it out is part of if not most of the fun.

 

[HDN]

Good info on the bearings.

As to the water tanks causing trucks to flip, it isn't so much the weight as it is the slosh. A half full unbaffled tank is far more dangerous than a full one.

Using a 5ton doesn't really resolve this.

If you've never experienced it, it's quite impressive. Make a more sudden than anticipated stop, and the slosh hits you a second later, and then repeatedly every two seconds.

Milk tankers are bad for this, as they're unbaffled due to the need to be able to get them clean.

I've never driven any tankers so I have zero first-hand experience. My dad drove a big tandem-axle water tanker when he was a volunteer fireman. It was some big long-wheelbase Peterbilt with some ungodly huge tank on it. The fire department eventually got rid of it for a smaller tanker truck because only those with a tanker endorsement on a Class A or B CDL could drive it, and there were only five guys or so who had that!

I get the slosh though. I can't help but imagine turning a partially-loaded tanker truck one way yet feeling the back end wanting to continue in the direction you didn't want to continue going! The extra 10000 lbs or so curb weight on the 5-ton must help, but like you were saying the fluid physics in the tank still need to be managed