Getting started from scratch with a Deuce in 2024?

[Mullaney]

I've never driven any tankers so I have zero first-hand experience. My dad drove a big tandem-axle water tanker when he was a volunteer fireman. It was some big long-wheelbase Peterbilt with some ungodly huge tank on it. The fire department eventually got rid of it for a smaller tanker truck because only those with a tanker endorsement on a Class A or B CDL could drive it, and there were only five guys or so who had that!

I get the slosh though. I can't help but imagine turning a partially-loaded tanker truck one way yet feeling the back end wanting to continue in the direction you didn't want to continue going! The extra 10000 lbs or so curb weight on the 5-ton must help, but like you were saying the fluid physics in the tank still need to be managed

.
Yes Sir! I drove a milk tanker - with a friend who drove it regularly - on a few weekends. That "milk slosh" was something! First time I applied the brakes that slap of the milk running to the front of the tank took my breath away...

 

[canadacountry]

I don't mean to start an offtopic remark but a fictional someone by the name of Winston Rothschild actually once mentioned that he started sewage service by using a station wagon with liner in the very rear although sudden stops could be a very messy affair! (I mean seriously tho, transporting raw sewage openly inside a station wagon?? some people..are umm are a little too nutty?)

 

[HDN]

I don't mean to start an offtopic remark but a fictional someone by the name of Winston Rothschild actually once mentioned that he started sewage service by using a station wagon with liner in the very rear although sudden stops could be a very messy affair! (I mean seriously tho, transporting raw sewage openly inside a station wagon?? some people..are umm are a little too nutty?)

The Red Green Show!

 

[kurtomatic]

Yeah those water tanks don't look like they have swash plates.

I agree with everyone else here about being super-careful with the water tanks. I've read too many stories on here about fire departments buying 2 1/2-ton trucks and overloading them with water and flipping them over.

As to the water tanks causing trucks to flip, it isn't so much the weight as it is the slosh. A half full unbaffled tank is far more dangerous than a full one.

Yes, I would like to assure everyone I have read the horror stories.

I will absolutely make good use of these tanks, but currently I need the bed space more. So my intent at the moment is to dismount the tanks for the time being. They may even be repurposed as on-site water storage tanks. I don't see having a need to buy 1,000 gallons of water at a time. The plan so far remains picking up a M149A2 water buffalo trailer in the future for hauling water, and yes I've read the stories about those things too. I'm not anticipating a need to drive very far to buy bulk water, speeds will be very slow, and the tank(s) will either be empty for full.

Regarding the bearing repair, the jury is still out on this. I've been buried in work all week, but as soon as I can find the time, I will do my research on the CTIS and form my own opinions. It appears to be disconnected from power, at least, because the control box on the steering column doesn't light up. I had the Deuce dropped off at a very capable, highly recommended shop in Corsicana; I have neither the space or tooling to tackle this one myself. The whole point of my RV/Homestead project to is create a space where I can have a shop with decent tools, among other things. I still have some ways to go, there.

Anyway, the shop hasn't gotten to my truck diagnosis yet; I'm told next week for sure, though.

 

[ToddJK]

Welp, I went a bought my 'starter' truck last weekend.

I went forward with a M35A3 that seems to suit my needs pretty well. It was cheap, and it's something between turn-key and trailer project. I drove it 230 flawless miles on the way home before the right front bearings started to go. It's a former Forestry Service truck that also did time with a VFD in Mississippi, and it came with (2) 500 gallon water tanks (with the plumbing still on them). I still have a lot to learn about it, but I really did enjoy the drive (aside from the turtle speeds on the interstate). I'll post more details once I've digested this further.

View attachment 914424

The guy I bought it from has a thing for stencil, and he covered the truck in it.

Nice rig! I look forward to seeing how the progress comes along on the truck!

 

[montaillou]

Nice looking truck. I don't often come into the regular Deuce thread as mine left that world long ago. If you want to experience the Dark Side of Deuce ownership, visit the "Deuce Modification" sub.

Oh, and now that you've got your Deuce are you ready for your hmmwv?

 

[HDN]

Oh, and now that you've got your Deuce are you ready for your hmmwv?

My wife and I are, but our wallet isn't

 

[montaillou]

but our wallet isn't

It's a slippery slope. I still look at the occasional hmmtt or mk23 auction and wish.

 

[kurtomatic]

Hey everyone, just a late follow up here... My A3 is out of the shop with the full front bearing conversion kit to the A2 style axles.

For me, I took that decision a little hard, because despite the issues associated with the CTIS, I'd have preferred to make the decision to take it out on my own terms, after I'd had the chance to evaluate the state of the system in this truck. However, it turns out the bearings on both sides were shot and with my truck taking up a bay and me needed it fixed, it seemed like ripping the Band-Aid now will make for a more reliable working truck.

I'm about 3 hours away from where the truck is stored (near my property) currently, but I should soon be back out there driving the truck and gearing up for my land clearing project. When I do, I'll start a new thread specifically for this truck and my efforts with it. I had local friends pick up the truck for me, and they shot a short clip of the Deuce pulling out of the shop:



Cheers,
Kurt

 

[Karl kostman]

Kurtomatic the bottom line here is what are you going to want to use the truck for into the future? If this is something that youe have ideas of a long distance traveler/camper then I would stay away from the Deuce, the reality is that its an old truck and those are the issues your going to need to be prepared for when on the road. The 5 ton 939 series is a pretty modern truck based on its engine, driveline and transmission its pretty much off the shelf items that lots of truck stops have in stock. I started out with a Deuce and love the truck to this day but after I bought my 5 ton I can count on one hand how many times I have driven the Deuce, in fact to the point I will be putting it up for sale this spring!
Think ahead and watch your costs, hold on WATCH YOUR COSTS!!!!

 

[kurtomatic]

Kurtomatic the bottom line here is what are you going to want to use the truck for into the future? If this is something that youe have ideas of a long distance traveler/camper then I would stay away from the Deuce...

Thanks. A 5-ton is outside my current envelope for a number of reasons. However, the Deuce is also pretty well suited to my use case. I already live and work fulltime as a seasonal "digital nomad" in an RV, and do not need another one, LOL.



Adding this Deuce to my vehicle fleet is intended to get some work done on (what I am now calling) my "RV Homestead" property. This is some raw land near a mid-size town in the far outer orbit of Dallas. The Deuce is unlikely to see more than about 600 miles a year, mostly driven within a 20 mile radius, at 40 mph, on rural backroads. It'll be hauling tractor gear and pulling a sub-compact tractor to and from my property. Within 2-3 months, it will also pick up water delivery duty for buying bulk water from the local town.

Since it will be sometime before I can bring my coach out there (minimum requirements are: driveway access + onsite water & electricity + dry well), I will be loading up at a friend's place nearby, heading out to the property, and camp there in the back of the Deuce for about 3 days at a time, maybe a little longer, getting stuff done with the tractor, and then loading again to return back to my staging point. I will have my 1/2 ton Hemi RAM available to me when I'm out there as well. Being able to sleep onsite will save me hotel expenses. I also feel like the having the Deuce on the property creates a stronger sense of "basecamp" and, perhaps, deter random wanderers and tweakers, at least a little.

Eventually I will have secure storage onsite for all my crap on my own property, and it looks like city water may be available in less than a year. Maybe. When that time comes, I will revaluate my needs. If, for example, the city water deal drags on into next year, then doubling down on my water capacity and trading up to a 5-ton might make sense. I am going to be doing landscaping work out there for a long, long time (years), and a heavy truck could be useful that way. I am also thinking of owning a small collection of useful trailers, like (in addition to a water buffalo) a fairly stout generator trailer. I might discover other uses for a big truck, and if so, I'll try to size appropriately.

 

[HDN]

Kurtomatic the bottom line here is what are you going to want to use the truck for into the future? If this is something that youe have ideas of a long distance traveler/camper then I would stay away from the Deuce, the reality is that its an old truck and those are the issues your going to need to be prepared for when on the road. The 5 ton 939 series is a pretty modern truck based on its engine, driveline and transmission its pretty much off the shelf items that lots of truck stops have in stock. I started out with a Deuce and love the truck to this day but after I bought my 5 ton I can count on one hand how many times I have driven the Deuce, in fact to the point I will be putting it up for sale this spring!
Think ahead and watch your costs, hold on WATCH YOUR COSTS!!!!

I consider the Deuce the baby 6x6, the cousin between the M37 and the M39/809/939 The 5-tons are definitely more trucky, and I hope to get one myself in the future, ideally a wrecker

 

[montaillou]

If this is something that youe have ideas of a long distance traveler/camper then I would stay away from the Deuce

Unless you're made of money, the fuel savings on the Deuce vs a 5 ton is substantial. I have taken my Deuce on a few (500+ miles) trips, and have been prepping it for world travel. Also, once you move into the 5 ton area, you may run into CDL issues.

The only real caveat I have on the Deuce is the engine, if you do go on long trips and if something went wrong and you had to rely on a local mechanic knowing something about a multifuel engine you'd probably be s.o.l. However, the multifuel is only part of the engine.

 

[ihavea65]

Yes, I would like to assure everyone I have read the horror stories.

I will absolutely make good use of these tanks, but currently I need the bed space more. So my intent at the moment is to dismount the tanks for the time being. They may even be repurposed as on-site water storage tanks. I don't see having a need to buy 1,000 gallons of water at a time. The plan so far remains picking up a M149A2 water buffalo trailer in the future for hauling water, and yes I've read the stories about those things too. I'm not anticipating a need to drive very far to buy bulk water, speeds will be very slow, and the tank(s) will either be empty for full.

Regarding the bearing repair, the jury is still out on this. I've been buried in work all week, but as soon as I can find the time, I will do my research on the CTIS and form my own opinions. It appears to be disconnected from power, at least, because the control box on the steering column doesn't light up. I had the Deuce dropped off at a very capable, highly recommended shop in Corsicana; I have neither the space or tooling to tackle this one myself. The whole point of my RV/Homestead project to is create a space where I can have a shop with decent tools, among other things. I still have some ways to go, there.

Anyway, the shop hasn't gotten to my truck diagnosis yet; I'm told next week for sure, though.

I would like to add, not from personal experience hauling water, but I used to pull 70 foot or longer power-poles on a dolly with a high center of gravity behind and already long line truck for the power company, and remembering my physics from college, I will say that if you drive imagining that you have a full glass of water in the cab, and you don't want to slosh it over. It makes a big difference regarding just the high center of gravity wanting to turn the trailer over. That is one factor. With water though, you have primary AND secondary reaction. While turning initially, you will load a force high, at 180 degrees like an arrow, to the new force applied to change direction at right angle to travel. While the suspension is loaded on that side of the vehicle, and it is working against inertia, that water will splash and hit the wall of the tank, and send an impulse that is exponential to the primary forces. Whatever the water weighs, depending on the sharpness of the turn, you may initially feel quit comfortable with a normal turn. But then, right at max g force, you get an impulse at x squared, if this doesn't tip you, it may send you in the next lane! Just make directional changes very gently. Braking too.

 

[cattlerepairman]

I think we all go through stages of MV ownership. It always makes me laugh when someone comments on the "size" of the 2 1/2 ton. It is all relative.

A drawback of the Deuce is that the bed is big enough to overload the truck. People are notoriously bad at math. When the book and design specs say "2.5 tons cargo load for off roading" and 1 USG of water weighs 8.4 lbs (3.8kg), then 600 gal is the maximum the truck can carry. Problem is, TWO 600 gal tanks fit into the bed easily.....
The frame and axles are ok with the increased weight. The brakes and centre of gravity not so much. Granted, a "highway" for the military is a part of the landscape where a dozer happened to pass through with the blade down. "Off road" is the same place without the dozer.
Welcome to the world many Deuces find themselves living in!
TWO tanks may be ok for highway runs (this time, I mean actual roads), with all the caveats mentioned before. Sensible speed, taking it ssllloooow through curves and turns and looking ahead when driving are your friends.
Fill up the tanks to the brim and feel the difference when driving!

A bit off topic, but my department also has a brush truck. While it is amazing how much of a side lean the truck can take, what is much less amazing is that it then reaches the tipping point very suddenly. It goes from seemingly still standing solidly at an angle to rolling over in a heartbeat. There is no further warning.

 

[sue]

W

Welcome to the weekend, everyone.

Total noob here, starting a thread here about practical considerations of attempting to start off in this hobby with a 2+ton truck. I have to say, I didn't think at first I would be all that interested in this class of vehicle; it just screamed overkill. But as I'm quickly learning, there is no such thing as overkill! I mean, seriously, it honestly looks hard to do much in military surplus world without a strategy:

1. There are some small bits like a pallet generators, fork lifts, or similarly useful shop gear that I definitely will want on my shopping list, but just aren't a high priority at the moment.

2. Then there's the whole Humvee game, which does look attractive. The 2-door/soft top/truck body style has a lot of appeal as a practical, useful vehicle for me. With one glaring exception--you can't tow anything useful with it. If I could safely tow a water buffalo behind a Humvee, I would be all over that. You can't, and I get it.

3. For everything else, it just seems to a newbie like me that the Deuce is the center of the remaining MV universe. I mean, sure, I don't really need a crazy 6x6 truck, but if I did have one, what kind of crazy amazing things could I do with it? The military clearly made great use of this platform for so many different things. Owning one of these just solves a lot of problems owning and operating other equipment, towables in particular.

So I'm coming around to this idea of starting with a Deuce (or a similar class truck) pretty hard at this point. The questions is, if I need something I can at least make minimal use of without a multi-month shop project, is there a practical means of doing this in 2024 without spending way too much? I don't have any special requirements, other than a good value on a basic working truck that I can get fancy with farther down the line when I know what I am doing.

There are a number of vehicles in this class to consider, and I am still a little lost. For the older Deuces this forum is about, most of the ones available that I am seeing are AM General M25As of one flavor or another.

Are these what I should be looking at? As a reference, if I wanted to avoid the Iron Planet lottery, Eastern Surplus has a few barebones M35A2s each listed for $14.75K. So that seems like today's retail entry point price, ready to go with a state title. That coincidentally is right up near the top of my justifiable cost limit. I don't want to overpay, but there is value having all the paperwork and obvious mechanical issues sorted from Day 1.

Of the current Iron Planet listings, the most interesting one is a '70 M35A2 in Granbury Texas. The full listing won't go live until Thursday, but it already has nearly 500 people watch listing it!

Any advice or reality checks are welcome.

Cheers, and Happy New Years!

We bought an A3 5-6 years ago, yes it’s nice to put ‘12 2X4s in the back and we can put 3 four wheelres in the back when we go ride.
we modified it with a aluminum top, stretched the rear axles to put the “53 tires
on it. which of course raised the cruise speed. It’s been to Indiana and Arizona
towing our Hmmwv on the flatbed. Put a racor fuel filter housing on it, flushed the trans with ATF and that’s about the only modifications done to it and it’s dead reliable.

 

[Salty_Dawg_18]

That's true even with 395s. The M35A3's transmission doesn't have an overdrive. It'll just make 55 MPH with 395/85R20 tires mounted. On the stock wheels (365/80R20) it tops out at about 50 MPH. I usually cruise at about 45 MPH with the 395s on my truck so I be sure to drive it when I'm not in a hurry to go anywhere. The truck is basically my summer car so that's usually never a problem




It's going to be like driving your MH to do those errands, maybe even a little easier if the MH is longer than the trucks you're considering? Also, are there any weight restrictions on the roads you'll use?

What are you using to build your homestead with? An M923 could carry cargo and tow a trailer with a backhoe or whatever on it. An M936 is a wrecker with a rotating crane, which can be useful for moving building materials, and can also tow a trailer. The wrecker weighs 36000 lbs, has plenty of hydraulics to maintain, and chugs diesel compared to even the cargo trucks.

Don't forget the MTVs too. The M1084 is a 5-ton with a hydraulic cargo handling crane on the back that can reach any part of the bed. I think that's the best of both worlds between a wrecker and a cargo truck. I'd go with that and a trailer. The M1083 is the same truck minus the crane.

this is true. I upgraded to 395/85 R20 this year, and my M35A3 still only does 55 mph

 

[G744]

I've had many 3-axle MV trucks over the years, and the fallout is my old '67 M54A1 is the one I kept.

A few salient points about the G742 vs G744 5ton:

>Power steering is stock.
>10-bolt Budd wheels, easier to source tires too.
>Smallish Spicer 3053 vs a far more robust transmission.
>If included, far more reliable automatic all-wheel drive.
>Stock A-over-Hy braking bigger parts & better operation.
> Bigger engine, works less hard overall.

 

[HDN]

I've had many 3-axle MV trucks over the years, and the fallout is my old '67 M54A1 is the one I kept.

A few salient points about the G742 vs G744 5ton:

>Power steering is stock.
>10-bolt Budd wheels, easier to source tires too.
>Smallish Spicer 3053 vs a far more robust transmission.
>If included, far more reliable automatic all-wheel drive.
>Stock A-over-Hy braking bigger parts & better operation.
> Bigger engine, works less hard overall.

Add no-rear-hub-flip required for singles and some longer service intervals to that list! The 5-tons are definitely more truck than the deuce, especially in the durability department. But I guess they aren't as practical to take grocery shopping, as much as I might take a wrecker out for a pizza run because I'm like that

 

[cattlerepairman]

Add to that - at least here in Ontario, Canada - the luck of the draw when it comes to law enforcement. There are no "this is a personally owned heavy truck" exemptions. Over 12000 lbs/6000 kg. Congratulations, you are commercial. Personally owned and used? Don't care. Log book and annual safety inspection with "yellow sticker". Technically, you do need IFSTA fuel tax stickers, because, while you are commercial, you are not "commercial" (which makes sense to no one, other than law enforcement), but be ready to argue this point when inspected after you drove out of your area of registration. I mean, you are carrying, like, 47 gallons of highly valuable Diesel!
Want historical plates? Not over 12,000 lbs. That makes owning a heavy MV both more expensive and more "risky" from the "attention of the law" perspective.

I do not advocate for sloppy maintenance or skipped pre-trip inspections. It is, however, a different ball game when I, driving my Deuce, am being held to the same standards as Joe B-train with two trailers, driving for income.

With a cargo Deuce, and its empty weight being oh so close to the 12,000 lbs threshold, one might be able to use one of the nonsensical exceptions that hinge on "factory cargo bed", allowing it to be a "personal pickup truck". If the same Deuce had a shelter box or a water tank, or was a 5th wheel tractor, it would not qualify and be full on commercial (no factory cargo bed). Mind you, your tandem axle Greyhound coach RV with air brakes is totally exempt...it's an RV....go figure.

For these reasons alone, I would seriously ponder whether I wanted a 5ton or something equally heavy. Sad times. Sorry for the rant and not meant to de-rail the original poster!