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GL & HUMMVe
- Thread starter Ma Duce
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Many MVs are not built to meet federal highway safety standards including the HMMWV. (and are owned by private citizens)
Hope they don't take them away from us, when other point that out.
Don't forget, we must give back our GL purchases, (as our contract says) at any time.
Hope they don't take them away from us, when other point that out.
Don't forget, we must give back our GL purchases, (as our contract says) at any time.
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This can go into a 10 year debate!! How is a bucket t safe for the road? Or a rat rod or a smart car etc etc etc!!
Tanner
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Hmmwv
What's with the giant tent pole people get for HMMWV's?
Consider the hurdles BEYOND Washington that you'll have to jump through in order to get the individual State's DMV/BMV departments to allow you to register them. Then prepare to joust with NHTSA & the DOT.
Buy a civvy truck & strip it... paint it CARC. Civilians won't know the difference.
Good luck and good hunting -
'Tanner'
What's with the giant tent pole people get for HMMWV's?
Consider the hurdles BEYOND Washington that you'll have to jump through in order to get the individual State's DMV/BMV departments to allow you to register them. Then prepare to joust with NHTSA & the DOT.
Buy a civvy truck & strip it... paint it CARC. Civilians won't know the difference.
Good luck and good hunting -
'Tanner'
nf6x
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That is a logical argument. However, this isn't a logical situation.
Tanner
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My perception:
SMART earned a DOT/NHTSA certification, and passed crash testing requirements. Can't say the same for the HMMWV. T-buckets meet the requirement of the states that they get registered in. As do many rat-rods.
The battle you seek to fight COULD ultimately harm the hobby by placing more restrictions on current ex-MV ownership. To many, this is not worth the fight.
'Tanner'
nf6x
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The same question could be asked about any of the other trucks that we collect. In the case of HMMWVs, I'd say that they are the single vehicle series most closely identified with US military ground forces for an entire generation or more. Much like the MB/GPW Jeeps are the vehicle most closely identified with WW2 US ground troops. Love them or hate them, they are iconic.
Ma Duce
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Maybe becuase someone said we can't have them. . .you know it worka so well for drugs. . .
Tanner
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No HMMWV hate involved - but a very similar vehicle can be bought on civvy market, with pedigreed paperwork.
No legitimate/logical comparison can be made to the MUTT or any other MV not available to civilians; it's a different era, different rules apply (NHTSA/DOT)... and the Golden Rule overall still applies.
He who has the gold makes the rules.
You can try fighting it, with the highly-likely outcome being defeat, or you can turn your energies to preserving the vehicles that are available. Buy one of the available ex-mil HMMWV's -
The rule-maker that decided to shred/debillitate the de-milled HMMWV's has their reasons, be they safety concerns, or possibly profit (in the case of AM General).
Sometimes, you gotta Pick your battles. Smart men pick winnable battles.
'Tanner'
No legitimate/logical comparison can be made to the MUTT or any other MV not available to civilians; it's a different era, different rules apply (NHTSA/DOT)... and the Golden Rule overall still applies.
He who has the gold makes the rules.
You can try fighting it, with the highly-likely outcome being defeat, or you can turn your energies to preserving the vehicles that are available. Buy one of the available ex-mil HMMWV's -
The rule-maker that decided to shred/debillitate the de-milled HMMWV's has their reasons, be they safety concerns, or possibly profit (in the case of AM General).
Sometimes, you gotta Pick your battles. Smart men pick winnable battles.
'Tanner'
AS with some certain cars that have passed the test like a Festiva,smart car, Yugo,etc i would rather get hit by a suburban in a hummer then any of those mobile coffins....
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If you really want to see something interesting--In the 1997 manual which DH linked, there is a blurb where HMMWV's that have been updated to FMSS standards can be petitioned to be sold to the general public. (this statement is gone in the current manual though). That way may be your best bet to getting some released.
I see DH updated it in his post #13.......
I see DH updated it in his post #13.......
nf6x
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Faced with the real HHMWV that I wanted for $20k vs. a civilian simulation of it for well north of $100k, I made the obvious choice. I don't care whether some random civilian would know the difference. I would know the difference.
On the safety topic, I certainly agree that an M923 could do a lot more damage. That is an apples to oranges comparison, though, because they're different classes of vehicles, and have different legal standards to meet. A military HMMWV lacks things like side impact protection, dash padding, collapsible steering column, air bags, and other such things that are required in cars and light trucks.
I certainly do not agree with the demil requirements for HMMWVs. I say, let the buyer sign a waiver and risk their own neck if they want to. I'm just pointing out some of the things that have historically been trotted out as justification for not allowing intact HMMWVs to be sold to civilians. I believe that the real reason was economic, in that AM General wanted to sell civilian Hummers back in the day, and didn't want to compete with surplus sales. Whether that is the truth or not, safety arguments were the official public reason for the demil requirement, much like for the M151.
On the safety topic, I certainly agree that an M923 could do a lot more damage. That is an apples to oranges comparison, though, because they're different classes of vehicles, and have different legal standards to meet. A military HMMWV lacks things like side impact protection, dash padding, collapsible steering column, air bags, and other such things that are required in cars and light trucks.
I certainly do not agree with the demil requirements for HMMWVs. I say, let the buyer sign a waiver and risk their own neck if they want to. I'm just pointing out some of the things that have historically been trotted out as justification for not allowing intact HMMWVs to be sold to civilians. I believe that the real reason was economic, in that AM General wanted to sell civilian Hummers back in the day, and didn't want to compete with surplus sales. Whether that is the truth or not, safety arguments were the official public reason for the demil requirement, much like for the M151.
nf6x
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By the way, Ma Duce: Do you think something has changed such that you may be successful now where many others have failed before? I'm asking that as a sincere question, not a sarcastic one.
jedawson1
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I spoke with a mechanic at Ft. McCoy about this topic a few months ago. He said he drove up on a scene where a F-250 rear ended a HMMVE and it killed the HMMVE driver. He said the frame is solid but the body is aluminum and a poor quality like " pot aluminum". He said he would never use one as a daily driver because any impact even minor has high potential to be lethal compared to cars with crumple zones. They could still sell them for off road use only, I'd pay a few grand to put one at the Hunting camp.
Ma Duce
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Nf6x --
more people with an interest are in positions to help. And we are getting more savy about how to do things. Not to mention the Gov in in red ink so bad, it might fit a narrative of trying to get more $$$ for the feds.
Jed --
Back in the mid 90's I was on a delpoyment to Alaska. When we went to the field we had just made the turn off the highway when a emergancy call came over the company radios. My platoon Sgt had just ben rear-ended by an olds delta 88 traveling at over 75 MPH. It seared the drivers rear wheel off, folded up the rear corner an shoved the rear, passenger seat into the drivers seat. The Guy was up in the turret and not sitting there so he was bruised from the bouncing off the M60 but not severly injured. My Plt Sgt was bruised up and bounced off the windshield with his K-pot.
The driver was banged up but not bad.
The other car flipped and tore the roof off. The driver was medi-vaced out.
overall it surveived fairly well.
more people with an interest are in positions to help. And we are getting more savy about how to do things. Not to mention the Gov in in red ink so bad, it might fit a narrative of trying to get more $$$ for the feds.
Jed --
Back in the mid 90's I was on a delpoyment to Alaska. When we went to the field we had just made the turn off the highway when a emergancy call came over the company radios. My platoon Sgt had just ben rear-ended by an olds delta 88 traveling at over 75 MPH. It seared the drivers rear wheel off, folded up the rear corner an shoved the rear, passenger seat into the drivers seat. The Guy was up in the turret and not sitting there so he was bruised from the bouncing off the M60 but not severly injured. My Plt Sgt was bruised up and bounced off the windshield with his K-pot.
The driver was banged up but not bad.
The other car flipped and tore the roof off. The driver was medi-vaced out.
overall it surveived fairly well.
ARYankee
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When you talk about safety standards and such you have to take into account the time frame of when these were built and what standards were in place. I don't see any problem of getting them registered in states but I do see the huge obstacle of getting their classification changed so that they can be sold to the public. I'm all for the change and very interested in how this goes.
nf6x
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The demil requirements have gotten absurd. I recall seeing mechanical teleprinters (essentially WW2 technology) in the demil pile, as parts of 1960-era radio sets that were finally surplussed out in the early 2000s, when things got really stupid. There was a great surge of paranoia after that little incident of Iran buying surplus F14 (?) parts, resulting in commercial off the shelf items such as common oscilloscopes requiring mutilation because they were mentioned in an F14 TM. If you can do anything to help wind back that stupidity, then you will have my admiration and thanks!
clinto
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All you'll end up accomplishing is bringing a bunch of attention to OUR trucks.
Instead of "hey yeah, we should release these HMMWV's" what will actually happen is "holy crap, we shouldn't be releasing ANY of this stuff! Thanks for bringing it to our attention."
Instead of "hey yeah, we should release these HMMWV's" what will actually happen is "holy crap, we shouldn't be releasing ANY of this stuff! Thanks for bringing it to our attention."
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