GovPlanet Cranking on Dry/Drained Engines???

[Jayhawk#44]

Hi all, I'm a long time lurker here. I'm finally in a position and can justify a large genny purchase for home back up power. I'm presently watching several 803s and an 003a thats local.

In recent auctions on GovPlanet I've seen several videos of cranking but non-starting MEP-803s. Several were clearly drained, yet they cranked anyhow! Several were iffy as to their lube status, but obviously had no coolant from the pics.

How much damage would, presumably several, dry 10-15 second cranks inflict on these engines?

Thanks in advance!

Matt

 

[Light in the Dark]

You can turn a set over without coolant and its fine... if the machines are well drained of their lube oil though thats a different ballgame. I've seen them do it too... auctions are more of a crapshoot than ever before.

 

[98G]

There's enough residual oil in the bearings that a few cranks isn't going no cause detectable harm.

Thing is, they'll run them with no oil in them also. Ask me how I know......

 

[Ray70]

On the 003, IF it has been sitting ( which they all have ) a while, cranking these will surely damage the Injection pump at minimum.
If it happens to have an American Bosch IP, that damage will be catastrophic and only repairable by replacing the IP.
When it comes to the 002 / 003, look for one that has not been touched in years, or is shown running. If they crank it and its not running, BID ACCORDINGLY!
On the 802 /803, cranking briefly as the guys said will not cause a problem, unless it already has other serious mechanical problems to begin with.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Also, if your looking at either a running MEP-002a/-003a it is important to also verify it produces correct voltage output. If buying locally and your able to get a demonstration run, I would take a Kill-A-Watt meter and plug into the convenience outlet to insure its operating properly: 120VAC @ 60 Hz.

If bidding, or negotiating a non-local purchase, sight unseen without a video it can be a crap shoot with you ending up with a "parts only machine" on your hands...so bid accordingly.

Even if the engine runs properly, there can be other problems. For instance, be aware that if any critters found a home inside the cozy AC Reconnection Box and chewed wires or built nests and there is mouse pee inside you got serious problems. In today's market with less parts available, troubleshooting and finding repair parts, especially for the AC Reconnection Box, can be difficult at best. I speak from experience due to having to replace the AC Reconnection Box for this critter invasion problem that occurred on a covered trailered low hours machine. Fortunately I had a completed tested AC Box that I had purchased several years ago as a spare.

 

[Jayhawk#44]

Thanks all! Yes to the IP damage on cranking of a 003a. The 003a is the one I will likely win. I've read extensively on the refurb and initial testing/start-up of the 003a. I'll just have to come up with a placement and noise attenuation solution for my tight and above my paygrade neighborhood.

I'm likely to bid on a couple of 803s that are not local that may have been dry cranked. I hope to make it to my local yard Thursday to view a few of the GP items I am interested in. If I get them and check to see no oil in the crank case I will document as to potentially claim against GP if they have internal damage, and I'll be pissed!

Thanks again!

Matt

 

[Jayhawk#44]

Also, if your looking at either a running MEP-002a/-003a it is important to also verify it produces correct voltage output. If buying locally and your able to get a demonstration run, I would take a Kill-A-Watt meter and plug into the convenience outlet to insure its operating properly: 120VAC @ 60 Hz.

If bidding, or negotiating a non-local purchase, sight unseen without a video it can be a crap shoot with you ending up with a "parts only machine" on your hands...so bid accordingly.

Even if the engine runs properly, there can be other problems. For instance, be aware that if any critters found a home inside the cozy AC Reconnection Box and chewed wires or built nests and there is mouse pee inside you got serious problems. In today's market with less parts available, troubleshooting and finding repair parts, especially for the AC Reconnection Box, can be difficult at best. I speak from experience due to having to replace the AC Reconnection Box for this critter invasion problem that occurred on a covered trailered low hours machine. Fortunately I had a completed tested AC Box that I had purchased several years ago as a spare.

Thanks! I'll be looking at this non-running 003a on Thursday and will report on my findings. Hopefully its just a lack of batteries that caused the non-running status. Looks good on the outside, but the rodents in the desert can be unforgiving, and its a mid-1980s vintage so who knows. Where is the AC Reconnection box located and can I easily access it? I'd love to check it for damage.

Thanks!

Matt

 

[98G]

Thanks all! Yes to the IP damage on cranking of a 003a. The 003a is the one I will likely win. I've read extensively on the refurb and initial testing/start-up of the 003a. I'll just have to come up with a placement and noise attenuation solution for my tight and above my paygrade neighborhood.

I'm likely to bid on a couple of 803s that are not local that may have been dry cranked. I hope to make it to my local yard Thursday to view a few of the GP items I am interested in. If I get them and check to see no oil in the crank case I will document as to potentially claim against GP if they have internal damage, and I'll be pissed!

Thanks again!

Matt

Claim against GP is valueless. Their ironclad guarantee is absolutely worthless. One example of many - machine showed running with oil pressure of 50psi in the auction, when picked up had an empty crankcase and would not run when the oil was replaced. Response- "too bad".

Figure that any GP auction is a straight up gamble and bid accordingly.

 

[csheath]

I personally would not bid on a dry cranked engine unless it went for parts price. By that i mean $500 or less.

I bought mine back when Gov Liquidation was selling dry units but they were going for less money. I expect that was why GP got the exclusive on them. BUT GL didn't make any claims or try to crank any of them. Most had all the fluids drained and batteries pulled.

Mine had 2600 hours on it and I got it for $975 before fees. If they didn't have that time extend feature I would have got it for less. I was high bidder at $675 when the time ended but they bumped it a few minutes past any activity and ran the price up. It took a little learning and tweaking but I was all in for 2 grand including the circuit interrupt, wiring to house, and homemade load bank.

I read a few absolute nightmare stories on low and no hour units. While they looked a lot better than one that had been run I felt like a unit with some hours on it was a better gamble. Mine played out that way.

 

[dav5]

I personally would not bid on a dry cranked engine unless it went for parts price. By that i mean $500 or less.

I bought mine back when Gov Liquidation was selling dry units but they were going for less money. I expect that was why GP got the exclusive on them. BUT GL didn't make any claims or try to crank any of them. Most had all the fluids drained and batteries pulled.

Mine had 2600 hours on it and I got it for $975 before fees. If they didn't have that time extend feature I would have got it for less. I was high bidder at $675 when the time ended but they bumped it a few minutes past any activity and ran the price up. It took a little learning and tweaking but I was all in for 2 grand including the circuit interrupt, wiring to house, and homemade load bank.

I read a few absolute nightmare stories on low and no hour units. While they looked a lot better than one that had been run I felt like a unit with some hours on it was a better gamble. Mine played out that way.

I bought a 15 hr MEP803A for a very reasonable price expecting the worst and it turned out all it needed was a fuel tank sensor. Every generator I have purchase needed repair. Some major some minor. I can't see any validity in the low hour vs high hour argument. It is a total crap shoot. Bid accordingly.

 

[Chainbreaker]

...Where is the AC Reconnection box located and can I easily access it? I'd love to check it for damage.

Thanks!

Matt

The AC Reconnection Box is left of the Control panel sitting down low on left side as you face the control panel and it butts up against the end of the fuel tank. If memory serves me correctly you can easily use a 5/16 socket to remove the 4 screws holding its side cover on. Just lift the cover off and the entire inside of the AC reconnection box is exposed for viewing inspection. Look closely for chewed/frayed insulation on wires. Visually look for mouse droppings sitting on top of the black plastic encased transformers & reactor. Also give it the "mouse pee/dead mouse" sniff test...hard to miss that smell! Look at the wires & terminals for signs of burning/arching or overheating.

Also, while looking inside the box look at the reconnection wafer switch itself. If its corroded or badly rusted that's not a good sign. As with any MEP-002a/-003a genset OFF/NOT RUNNING try to turn the AC Reconnection switch sitting behind the metal plate next to the main circuit breaker. That cover flap opens with a twist using a large flat head screw drive against the captive twist lock.

When you try to turn the AC Reconnection Switch you should encounter some fairly stiff spring-like resistance, or it could be totally frozen up (there is a procedure to free it if it is frozen solid but not during an inspection). If it doesn't break free by rocking it back & forth with a fairly good twist don't force it as you could break the switch or knob.

There are diagnostic tests involving resistance measurements of the transformers in the AC Reconnection Box that are in the TM's, but that's beyond the visual inspection process. Regardless of units condition take a look at the exterior main wiring harness & components, especially inside the Control Panel & AC Reconnection Box. Your looking for burnt, cut wires or loose dangling wires as well as any missing components.

Viewing the -24P parts manual TM beforehand would be helpful to familiarize yourself with.

 

[Jayhawk#44]

Thanks all for the advice! Sadly, it seems they're all going for big money these days. I'm a cautious buyer, thus I don't own a big generator yet!

 

[Bluejoe]

Thanks all for the advice! Sadly, it seems they're all going for big money these days. I'm a cautious buyer, thus I don't own a big generator yet!

Hey I’m also looking there’s not many around my area Jersey. I’m cautious myself or that and some procrastination combined. I will find one. There are ones selling here but they haven’t really been maintained, need repairs , no load testing and they want $3000 plus.

 

[Ray70]

All you can do is keep your eyes open and occasionally you will find one that goes somewhat reasonable, but these days there are a lot of buyers paying more at auction ( before fees ) than I typically was selling my tested, serviced and guaranteed machines for.
So at this point, I have all but stopped buying them, except for the rare case when I locate a reasonable deal.
It's just the way of the world these days.
Most of the units that sell reasonable tend to be non-runners that maybe don't look so good either, but experience can help you get a feeling for the machine's true condition, but everything is still a gamble, so bid accordingly and expect the worst case... if it turns out to be all good you will be that much further ahead of the game!

 

[Jayhawk#44]

Soooo, that cautious thing....rolled the dice today. Bought an MEP-803a today. Bid, oh, no problem I'll get out bid.......................................30 seconds left.......,,,.,...............
Oh s#!& I won. Hmm how's the wife going to take this?
Anyone know anything about pickup at Govplanet in Hooks, Texas???? Can I get Uship in there?

 

[Jayhawk#44]

And... I'm still looking at that MEO-003a this week. In-laws now say they want a genny. A 003a would be perfect for them as they are very rural and have several acres. And no neighbors to complain about the noise. The 803a is a better fit for my situation.

Later,

Matt

 

[Ray70]

Well, congrats... we will be waiting for updates on how you make out!
As for your wife, typically they nag and complain up until about 5 minutes after the next power outage begins.
At that point the complaints are often replaced with sounds of joy because your lights are on but the rest of the street is dark!

 

[Abrant23]

Soooo, that cautious thing....rolled the dice today. Bought an MEP-803a today. Bid, oh, no problem I'll get out bid.......................................30 seconds left.......,,,.,...............
Oh s#!& I won. Hmm how's the wife going to take this?
Anyone know anything about pickup at Govplanet in Hooks, Texas???? Can I get Uship in there?

Did you get the rusty green one, the tan one, or the camo one? Keep us updated!

 

[Jayhawk#44]

Wife didn't complain. If it don't run, the she'll get a bit testy! The SW US power grid is dangerously at the end of capacity to meet demand. I've got some pretty good inside info. Hoover Dam isn't the giant endless battery in the sky it once was. Can't Spin turbines iffins you gots no water! I bought the tan dry/drained one $3150. It runs I'm good, if not...
Wish me luck!

Matt

 

[Ray70]

If it runs... Your good... If not, we fix it... , and then you're good.... no big deal...