Greaseable polyurethane sway bar bushings

[Awesomeness]

Rusty,
This is roughly what trying to put a 1.5"ID bushing on a 1.67"OD bar would look like, as far as the gap it creates. Not obvious from this picture is that now that upper stretched-out area is drastically oversized, because there was material for spanning from the hanger bracket to a 1.5"OD bar that is now pushed out 0.170" by the oversized bar.

I take offense to the comment about me not wanting to help people out. I only make the bushings to help people out, and make little/no profit off continuing to spend my time doing it. It would be way easier if there was a commercial part we could just buy. Using this 1.5"ID Gillam bushing on a ~1.67"OD bar just won't work. Dragging out the theory that this will work isn't helpful either (especially since a bunch of lazy readers in the future will not read this whole thread, and will stop and buy things right at the post where you are adamant it is going to work, and the confusion will perpetuate).

 

[Blairg]

Rusty,
This is roughly what trying to put a 1.5"ID bushing on a 1.67"OD bar would look like, as far as the gap it creates. Not obvious from this picture is that now that upper stretched-out area is drastically oversized, because there was material for spanning from the hanger bracket to a 1.5"OD bar that is now pushed out 0.170" by the oversized bar.

I take offense to the comment about me not wanting to help people out. I only make the bushings to help people out, and make little/no profit off continuing to spend my time doing it. It would be way easier if there was a commercial part we could just buy. Using this 1.5"ID Gillam bushing on a ~1.67"OD bar just won't work. Dragging out the theory that this will work isn't helpful either (especially since a bunch of lazy readers in the future will not read this whole thread, and will stop and buy things right at the post where you are adamant it is going to work, and the confusion will perpetuate).

View attachment 758049

As I haven't put the bushings that I bought yet on mine. I can say that that the kit that Awesomness puts out is quality stuff. Pretty easy to put crappy stuff on but I appreciate when somebody takes the time to design and build some of quality for nothing more then to help people out. I cant imagine the LMTV market is a big one.
I will always try and support those people who go out of their way to help out the what ever hobby they are into.
Blair

 

[rustystud]

Rusty,
This is roughly what trying to put a 1.5"ID bushing on a 1.67"OD bar would look like, as far as the gap it creates. Not obvious from this picture is that now that upper stretched-out area is drastically oversized, because there was material for spanning from the hanger bracket to a 1.5"OD bar that is now pushed out 0.170" by the oversized bar.

I take offense to the comment about me not wanting to help people out. I only make the bushings to help people out, and make little/no profit off continuing to spend my time doing it. It would be way easier if there was a commercial part we could just buy. Using this 1.5"ID Gillam bushing on a ~1.67"OD bar just won't work. Dragging out the theory that this will work isn't helpful either (especially since a bunch of lazy readers in the future will not read this whole thread, and will stop and buy things right at the post where you are adamant it is going to work, and the confusion will perpetuate).

View attachment 758049

WOW ! Someone really got their knickers in a bunch !
I never said anything about you not wanting to help the community. I was referring to my efforts which you really seem determined to discredit. I wonder way ?
In your first response to me you said the diameter was 2" after I said the "Gillig" bushings where 1.5" . Now it seems it is something else. Also your math is totally off on that diagram you made up. I've personally fitted bushings that where way over sized and managed to fit them in. Remember Poly bushings can "squeeze" .
I wonder. Did you ever show your actual forms you used to "make" these bushings ? Or perhaps you "bought" these bushings your selling from someone else ? Since your making such a stink about this it just makes me wonder.
I've seen this happen before on this site. Someone will find the parts we need for our trucks, buy them up and then resell them here for a nice profit. Now I'm not saying that is what your doing, but your really getting quite defensive about any questions about buying them elsewhere for cheaper then your selling them for.
Maybe show us the forms you built and the actual process you go through to make them. That would let us all know that your really making them yourself. Take all the doubt away.
I'm just trying to help the community at large here. I'm making no money from this, and have no other motivation then to just help out. If you think that is wrong of me then you might need to check your motivation for being here.
I still say someone needs to try this bushing and see if it actually works for them. No harm done, except $30.00 lost. Which at this time I will reimburse the first one who tries this and documents their efforts. Putting my money where my mouth is kind of thing.
Any takers ?

 

[Awesomeness]

LMTV swaybar is 2.0". M1082 (trailer) is smaller (1.67"?). The math is right on.

Your idea just won't work, that's why I'm discrediting it. If I thought it would work at all, I would have already ordered one to try it myself. You'll probably just think it's a lie since I'm bringing it up now, but I have a pile of thousands of dollars worth of LMTV/related parts that I've bought just to document, measure, fit check, etc. Even after making these bushings, I eventually bought a real one (for some outrageous price) just to make sure mine were dimensionally accurate, because I originally had to reverse engineer mine from the dimensions of the bar and bracket (my bushings had rotted out and were gone).

My bushings have my name and part number molded into them. Definitely not bought, but thanks for playing tonight on "Conspiracy Theories R' Us".

I have spent a ton of time looking for a COTS bushing that will fit.

 

[Third From Texas]

Well the simple fix is for you guys to work together. Rusty could get the *exact* specs off the trailer and Awesomeness could do the CAD, 3D-print, and mold.

Assuming the demand is there (I know that I'm keeping my eye a couple M1082s currently).

 

[Awesomeness]

I'm already planning to make M1082 bushings... they're on "the list", but it's a long list.

I have an M1082, and while my bushings on it are still fine, I measured it once. From what I remember, the outside (part that fits in the hanger bracket) is the same as the LMTV, but the bar was just smaller. Makes sense, because it's a lighter vehicle, so the bar should be smaller to work correctly. I also seem to remember the bar being a nominal size (not odd like 1.67"), but I could be wrong. I would measure it again, more carefully, before doing anything (including buying a COTS replacement). We are about to have a snow storm today, but if I remember, I'll go take measurements and post them in a few days.

 

[rustystud]

LMTV swaybar is 2.0". M1082 (trailer) is smaller (1.67"?). The math is right on.

Your idea just won't work, that's why I'm discrediting it. If I thought it would work at all, I would have already ordered one to try it myself. You'll probably just think it's a lie since I'm bringing it up now, but I have a pile of thousands of dollars worth of LMTV/related parts that I've bought just to document, measure, fit check, etc. Even after making these bushings, I eventually bought a real one (for some outrageous price) just to make sure mine were dimensionally accurate, because I originally had to reverse engineer mine from the dimensions of the bar and bracket (my bushings had rotted out and were gone).

My bushings have my name and part number molded into them. Definitely not bought, but thanks for playing tonight on "Conspiracy Theories R' Us".

I have spent a ton of time looking for a COTS bushing that will fit.

Some simple pictures would explain all, and remove all doubt. Why not post them ?

 

[Awesomeness]

Some simple pictures would explain all, and remove all doubt. Why not post them ?

It's a stupid accusation. There's no point entertaining it further. If you think I'm buying them and reselling them, I hope you spend endless amounts of time trying to figure out where I'm buying them from. Maybe in your search you will find some that actually fit, and I won't have to make them anymore... I only do it because there's no good source of COTS bushings (besides the overpriced surplus expired-NOS kind).

You don't post much in the FMTV forum, but perhaps that also equates to you not reading the FMTV forum much. If so, and you did read it more often, you would know that I am constantly making all kinds of custom FMTV things, and you would realize how stupid an accusation it is. You could look at the bushing pictures in the For Sale forum and see they match my CAD in this thread, complete with my name and part number.

Good luck.

 

[rustystud]

It's a stupid accusation. There's no point entertaining it further. If you think I'm buying them and reselling them, I hope you spend endless amounts of time trying to figure out where I'm buying them from. Maybe in your search you will find some that actually fit, and I won't have to make them anymore... I only do it because there's no good source of COTS bushings (besides the overpriced surplus expired-NOS kind).

You don't post much in the FMTV forum, but perhaps that also equates to you not reading the FMTV forum much. If so, and you did read it more often, you would know that I am constantly making all kinds of custom FMTV things, and you would realize how stupid an accusation it is. You could look at the bushing pictures in the For Sale forum and see they match my CAD in this thread, complete with my name and part number.

Good luck.

It's a simple request. Just post some pictures and remove all doubt. But that is not my original intent here. I found some bushings that I believe are the exact ones needed and you seem determined to disprove me no matter what.
Fist off, how much are you charging for your bushings ? Are they the same price as the $30.00 ones from "Gillig" ? So $60.00 a set ? If they are then no problem. But if you have to charge more, then it helps the community if I have found a cheaper source, right ?
As far as me not posting here, what has that got to do with it ? I worked on heavy trucks for 40 years as a "Certified Master Mechanic" . So I do kinda know a little bit about these large trucks. Even if I didn't know anything, and I found a cheaper source of parts would that discredit me from posting here ?
Your continued failure to post pictures here really raises red flags. You see that don't you ?
At first I just wanted to see how you actually poured the Polyurathane. I've been studying that process for several years now. I know what is required and the process involved, which is more intensive then most people realize.
First off, how do you "degass" the liquid polyurethane ? Which pump system do you use ?
Those are questions I was curious about.
Now I'm "beginning" to believe you have never actually poured your own bushings. As far as your name on the bushings go, anyone with a "branding iron" can put their name on anything. Really very simple.
So the issue is, one: I'm full of it and your doing what you say you are. Or two: your not doing what you say you are and your trying to discredit me so people continue to buy your bushings at an inflated price.
If you just post pictures of your operation that would solve the issue of your credibility.
It still will not resolve the issue of the parts I found though. That requires someone actually trying the bushings on their truck.
That is why I said I would pay for the bushings for the first one who wants to try this. Really, I will buy the bushings (complete set) and mail it to anyone one who will try installing them on their truck.
Any takers ? Just give me a PM and I'll answer you.

 

[JonMolander]

It's also worth noting that I find the 1.67" measurement to be a little suspect. I measured the bar on my M1082 once, and while I can't remember exactly what I found, I vaguely recall that it was an obvious/common/expected size. 1.67" doesn't equate to any common imperial (43/64") or metric (42.42mm) size. So it's probably a different size that is either worn down, or has corrosion/paint/debris on it.

I was expecting you to bring this up...the engineer at Energy Suspension raised the same concern. I just went out to my trailer and remeasured the sway bar diameter using a set of dial calipers. 5 samples per side, or 10 samples total. Note that it does have paint on it. I knocked debris off with my hand to get as smooth as surface as possible.

Driver side
Count: 5
Mean: 1.664"
Variance: 0.00003"

Passenger Side
Count: 5
Mean: 1.674"
Variance: 0.00013"

Overall Combined Average
1.667"

Sig figs, yo.

 

[JonMolander]

I'm pretty sure though that this part will fit. Why ? Because most manufactures will use what is out there in the market place instead of manufacturing a totally unique piece. Since this front sway-bar system totally looks like the Gillig system which by the way they bought, they did not manufacture this system. That tells me it is in all likely hood the same parts the military vender used.

This is a very reasonable assumption. I like your train of thought with the Gillig bushing you found on eBay, however I may have found something slightly better. A few sellers carry the Energy Suspension 41.5002R (R or B just means Red or Black) that claims to have a 1.625" inner diameter. I messaged the seller on eBay and am still awaiting confirmation on outer dimensions. I need a 2.75" width/height, but I can get away with 2.75" or longer length.

(eBay link removed)
Energy Suspension 41.5002R Poly 1-5/8" Sway Bar Bushing - Freightliner Gillig



More to follow.

 

[Awesomeness]

I was expecting you to bring this up...the engineer at Energy Suspension raised the same concern. I just went out and remeasured the sway bar diameter using a set of dial calipers. 5 samples per side, or 10 samples total. Note that it does have paint on it. I knocked debris off with my hand to get as smooth as surface as possible.

...
Overall Combined Average
1.667"

Fair enough. I just wanted to be sure, because it was unexpected.

 

[Awesomeness]

This is a very reasonable assumption. I like your train of thought with the Gillig bushing you found on eBay, however I may have found something slightly better. A few sellers carry the Energy Suspension 41.5002R (R or B just means Red or Black) that claims to have a 1.625" inner diameter. I messaged the seller on eBay and am still awaiting confirmation on outer dimensions. I need a 2.75" width/height, but I can get away with 2.75" or longer length.

(eBay link removed)

More to follow.

That would be great if it's the right length. Ø1.625" might be able to be squeezed on there. I can't find that part number in any of Energy Suspension's catalogs or online search.

 

[JonMolander]

I can't find that part number in any of Energy Suspension's catalogs or online search.

I couldn't either. Found it online by chance. And the engineer at Energy Suspension didn't tell me about it on the phone. Fingers crossed the seller gets back to me soon on those outer dimensions and they are compatible. $37 seems cheap enough but I'd rather wait a few days to hear back. I also emailed Energy Suspension with the same question. We shall see.

 

[Ohiobenz]

I was expecting you to bring this up...the engineer at Energy Suspension raised the same concern. I just went out to my trailer and remeasured the sway bar diameter using a set of dial calipers. 5 samples per side, or 10 samples total. Note that it does have paint on it. I knocked debris off with my hand to get as smooth as surface as possible.

Driver side
Count: 5
Mean: 1.664"
Variance: 0.00003"

Passenger Side
Count: 5
Mean: 1.674"
Variance: 0.00013"

Overall Combined Average
1.667"

Sig figs, yo.

I'm going to guess it's nominal 11/16 (44/64") with some tolerance....

 

[JonMolander]

I'm going to guess it's nominal 11/16 (44/64") with some tolerance....

Most likely. 1-11/16" is what I requested from Energy Suspension. The engineer told me it was not available. 1-5/8" is the closest I've found so far.

 

[rustystud]

This is a very reasonable assumption. I like your train of thought with the Gillig bushing you found on eBay, however I may have found something slightly better. A few sellers carry the Energy Suspension 41.5002R (R or B just means Red or Black) that claims to have a 1.625" inner diameter. I messaged the seller on eBay and am still awaiting confirmation on outer dimensions. I need a 2.75" width/height, but I can get away with 2.75" or longer length.

(eBay link removed)

More to follow.

That's good news !
No matter what others believe, I'm all for "promoting" the Military Vehicle hobby. That means trying to find good reasonable priced parts for "everyone" !
In the past I've found good parts and posted about them on this site. Since I'm retired and do not need to worry financially anymore ( Praise God ! ) I take pleasure in finding good sources of parts and updated modifications for our vehicles.
So no "horse in the race" to worry about.

 

[coachgeo]

Don't forget to keep in mind that the one's Awesomeness makes take a grease zerk for lubing.

 

[JonMolander]

Don't forget to keep in mind that the one's Awesomeness makes take a grease zerk for lubing.

Hadn't forgotten. He's not currently making these. I wasn't trying to derail his business venture. He and I have talked and he won't be able to make a custom set for me for quite a while. Plus, you can always drill and a tap for a zerk. It was one of my very first jobs in the first machine shop I ever worked in. I broke a lot of taps that summer.

 

[rustystud]

Don't forget to keep in mind that the one's Awesomeness makes take a grease zerk for lubing.

The ones sold by "Gillig" come with the zerk fitting hole already.