H4 Headlight Conversion.. LED bulbs?

[JohnnyBM931A2]

So I did the H4 conversion on my M931A2 using Hella glass and 70/75w Hella bulbs. I did the install during the day, and it seemed like I was getting a significant increase in light output. However, when I turned them on at night, it looks like the low beam is almost the same as the old one (I left one in for comparison, instead of swapping both at the same time.) However, the high beams are certainly "hella" bright (lol) and there is a noticeable difference in light output. Given that the low beams are what will be used 99% of the time, I would like to get some more output from those. These lights are already over 55w, so I don't want to put in higher wattage bulbs. They also put out a heck of a lot of heat.

So after doing some searching on eBay, I found some Cree H4 LED headlight bulbs. They don't have a separate ballast or anything like that.. The "plug" end of the bulb is just a little longer and wider. Low beam is 30w, and the high beam is 40w. And they should put out a lot less heat than what I have in there. Low beam output is 3500lm, high beam is 4500lm. I'm assuming that's short for lumens. Has anyone ever tried these? They are very white, so they will look quite a bit different from the standard sealed beam or halogen bulbs. Fitment might also be an issue, though I think they can squeeze in there. Price is not too bad at around $55-60 + shipping. If no one has any experience with them I may just pick up a set and try them out.. Thanks in advance

 

[Swamp Donkey]

You will not be happy with them. They can put out 1,000,000 lumens and it won't matter. Lumens don't equal usable light. That's the light that is put where you need it and can see it. The reflector you have is designed for an incandescent bulb, which has a much different light pattern than a LED bulb. Don't be fooled by the hype, fancy "lingo" and pumped up specifications. Drop-in bulbs are nowhere near as effective as a bulb assembly with a properly designed reflector, or even an incandescent with the proper reflector. They have to have all those lumens to make up for the wasted light in the trees and other drivers eyes. They might look good from the outside of the vehicle but that means nothing if you can't see while driving. Get a properly designed LED assembly, like Truck-lite, and you'll be happy if LED is the route you want to take. The reflector should be designed around the bulb, not the other way around.

My $0.02...which is about all I have left after tinkering with LEDs over the years.

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

Good to know. Sounds like my only option is to go with higher wattage halogens. I appreciate the info

 

[cbrTodd]

Check to make sure you don't have your ground and high beam wire locations flipped. I used a diagram I found online and it was backwards. It sent the current through both filaments on the low beam setting and was very dim. Yours may already be fine, but it is something fairly easy to check.

 

[gimpyrobb]

See if you can get bulbs that have a different color. Thats the thing I like most about my LEDs, the color.

 

[74M35A2]

Dumb question, but are they aimed well? Even if so, can you optimize it?

 

[tim292stro]

So I did the H4 conversion on my M931A2 using Hella glass and 70/75w Hella bulbs...
...However, when I turned them on at night, it looks like the low beam is almost the same as the old one...

Sounds like you may be current limited, question, when you did the conversion, did you put in a relay kit?

...So after doing some searching on eBay, I found some Cree H4 LED headlight bulbs...
...Price is not too bad...

As others have said you will not be happy. Cree LEDs, as popular as they are, will not (in the next few years) have the same light density as the halogen filament - what this means is that to get that lumen number, they need much more surface area to generate it, and that problem means that the light output by the LED will not be as focussed as the halogen. While it may appear brighter to you, it will also to oncoming LEO, and they'll likely pull you over for an equpment violation (it'll probably start as poorly aimed, then devolve into illegal equipment - the lens says H4, so anything other than H4 installed earns you a fix-it).

From my own experience, Hella fixtures are "crap" - I much prefer the Cibie headlights, which are now available with sae markings (used to be european only).

Note that your with your comment about cost, there are complete LED fixtures avialable that will drop in to your headlight buckets.

 

[fattboy123456]

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

Than you for the pics My goal is to keep it stock looking though, which is why I went with the Hella glass. I ended up throwing in some 90/100w bulbs instead of the 70/75w bulbs. They seem a bit brighter, but I will have to test them out more thoroughly.

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

Sounds like you may be current limited, question, when you did the conversion, did you put in a relay kit?


As others have said you will not be happy. Cree LEDs, as popular as they are, will not (in the next few years) have the same light density as the halogen filament - what this means is that to get that lumen number, they need much more surface area to generate it, and that problem means that the light output by the LED will not be as focussed as the halogen. While it may appear brighter to you, it will also to oncoming LEO, and they'll likely pull you over for an equpment violation (it'll probably start as poorly aimed, then devolve into illegal equipment - the lens says H4, so anything other than H4 installed earns you a fix-it).

From my own experience, Hella fixtures are "crap" - I much prefer the Cibie headlights, which are now available with sae markings (used to be european only).

Note that your with your comment about cost, there are complete LED fixtures avialable that will drop in to your headlight buckets.

I will consider picking up one of those Grote lights to test out. Price is pretty high.. They're even more than comparable Truck Lites
However, I like the fact that they have clear lenses, unlike the Truck Lites which all appear to be "smoked." That was one of my goals, to improve light output without altering the factory look. The Grotes don't look all that different from the stock lights, with the exception of the chrome piece going across the middle with their logo on it.

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

Is there a spot in the TM's, or elsewhere that states the lumen output of the high and low beams for the factory headlights? It would be good to have as a point of comparison... The sealed beam LED headlights that I'm looking at are 600 lumens for the low beam, 1085 for the high beam.

 

[tim292stro]

Truck-lites are not tinted, they have a black circuit board that the reflectors show. Truck-lites are currently one of two common field replacements for 7" round and 7"x6" rectangle headlights - the other being J.W. Speaker. New military vehicles are also being shipped with these two brands.

The Grotes/Maxximas are about the same price as Truck-lites - take a closer look, do some YouTube surfing, there are a lot of video reviews that you can get a better idea with. But you still need to make sure your wiring is doing the job. Try measuring the voltage at the back of the headlamp while the alternator is charging to see if you're getting the full 28.8volts in either beam setting (high/low).

 

[tim292stro]

Is there a spot in the TM's, or elsewhere that states the lumen output of the high and low beams for the factory headlights?...

I have never come across that specification in a TM - it's more likely to be found in a vehicle purchasing contract (and still then unlikely). Most TM will troubleshoot failures, not individual soldier performance complaints/preferences. Basically, if the light turns on when it's supposed to and doesn't look totally wrong, they run it - and if something is very obviously off, they replace it with authorized replacement parts. It's just that simple (and for a reason - training/cost/time).

 

[Artisan]

Often overlooked in freezing environments is the lack of
heat associated w/ LED's. Start driving down the road
w/ an LED in a snowstorm and you will soon be
trying to engineer in some headlight wiper blades,
as the snow and ice stick to and build up on the lens.

Truck-Lite has an answer for this, (# 07496) it is a DOT APPROVED
HEATED Unit, the heaters only come on when necessary.

I wish I had a couple of pairs of them. CLICK HERE

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

Often overlooked in freezing environments is the lack of
heat associated w/ LED's. Start driving down the road
w/ an LED in a snowstorm and you will soon be
trying to engineer in some headlight wiper blades,
as the snow and ice stick to and build up on the lens.

Truck-Lite has an answer for this, (# 07496) it is a DOT APPROVED
HEATED Unit, the heaters only come on when necessary.

I wish I had a couple of pairs of them. CLICK HERE

Yeah.. I had thought about that. That's the exact reason why all of the LED stoplights here have heaters built in. They figured out pretty quick that the LED lights didn't put out enough heat to melt the snow.

I saw those headlights that you linked to when I was searching on eBay. I mean.. $325ea is not exactly the end of the world, but $650 is way more than I planned on spending to upgrade the headlights (actually $750, if you include the 100 or so that I already spent buying the Hella glass and H4 bulbs.) But it sounds like it may be my only option at this point.

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

I have never come across that specification in a TM - it's more likely to be found in a vehicle purchasing contract (and still then unlikely). Most TM will troubleshoot failures, not individual soldier performance complaints/preferences. Basically, if the light turns on when it's supposed to and doesn't look totally wrong, they run it - and if something is very obviously off, they replace it with authorized replacement parts. It's just that simple (and for a reason - training/cost/time).

That makes sense. I didn't recall seeing it anywhere, but I figured I would ask.

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

After doing a lot of searching I was able to dig up some info. The stock incandescent sealed beams lights are 60w for low beam, 80w for high beam. Current draw is 2.14A for the low beams, and 2.86A for the high beams. The light rating for low beam is 11,000mscp (mean spherical candle power,) and the high beam is 24,000mscp. I have no idea how that relates to lumens, which is a measurement that I am more familiar with, but I figured I would post what I found. I will try to find a conversion chart or calculator somewhere. The site I usually use (onlineconversion.com) did not have that unit listed.

 

[MtnSnow]

1 MSCP equals 12.57 lumens

 

[JohnnyBM931A2]

1 MSCP equals 12.57 lumens

Yeah.. I eventually found that on some random site. But it doesn't make any sense to me.. Using that, 11,000mscp = 138,270 lumens for the low beams. That is definitely not right... Nowhere close. As a point of comparison, the sealed beam LED headlights that I was looking at put out 600 lumens for the low beam, and 1085 for the high beam.

 

[fattboy123456]

Often overlooked in freezing environments is the lack of
heat associated w/ LED's. Start driving down the road
w/ an LED in a snowstorm and you will soon be
trying to engineer in some headlight wiper blades,
as the snow and ice stick to and build up on the lens.



These leds get super hot i think the snow would melt off but i didnt think of that living in cali lol]