Has anyone thought about converting to an electric air pump?

[Lonesome715]

This is the problem with trying to adapt a deuce to civilian life. They are great hard to kill trucks as long as they are used as they are intended. However, once they retire from service they are not very good for the type of use they see in civilian life. Adapting them is a challeneg either way.

 

[eagle4g63]

I'm not 100% but......the FACT that these trucks have hydraulic brakes is why we don't need to have a CDL to drive them, the brakes ARE air assisted! NO air=HARD to use BRAKES not NO BRAKES!!! And besides like it has been said, you have holding tanks, if you are paying attention and notice that your voltage gauge goes south than you know you would be loosing electric so the pressure would start to come down....don't use the horn save the air for the brakes.

Anyway, if you wanted to have more air....you need more volume, so more tank space set up another set of tanks and if you are worried about taking too long in the morning to fill them put a valve between the 2 sets and only open it after you have filled the primary set and want to be able to have the larger volume. When you need the larger volume is when you are going to be running tools not driving so no biggie if you don't have enough for a little while for the brakes.

Otherwise get a newer style of mechanical pump from a large commercial air compressor and modify the mount.

kind of like one of these 4 piston kinds....ALL the air you can use!!!

 

[Lonesome715]

That looks like it would take a lot to turn.

 

[eagle4g63]

Maybe this one is a little too big for what you need but it does actually only use a 5hp motor to spin it, fills an 80 gallon tank very quick and up to 175psi, doesn't run out of air no matter what tools I am using!!!

PS I can turn it over by hand so couldn't be that hard on a gas motor(maybe at the upper end of pressure, just need the right size pulleys.

 

[Lonesome715]

Really? By hand? I did not realize somehting like that can spin over so easy. The one I ihave on my big IR compressor cannot be spun by hand. I was considering a larger pump at one time but what worries me is what ever else I may have to replace as a result. There are always unforseen mods when changing stuff.

 

[berserker]

This got me thinking hehe, a neighbor just gave me 26 g tank w/ busted compressor. I agree w/ the volume statement. I have the air access in the cab so will try using that w/ hoses, disconnects. As budgeting goes I'll see if it helps w/ air tools and watching here for ideas/ warnings. Will probably keep tank mobile as a bit large to mount on truck and anything I do wish to be able to transform back to original truck. By the same token if compressor failed that volume in tank could fill onboard tanks in emergency ...depending upon plumbing

 

[tm america]

Whether it's an electric pump or mechanical pump it takes power from the engine to run it... mechanical runs right off the belt. electric runs off the alt.. The more electric draw the more power the alt uses to turn..I wouldn't go electric ..There's a good reason they didn't come that way from the factory .. if you want more air i would look into replacing the stock compressor with a bigger one.

 

[Chief_919]

I think the first thing I would do is add more reserve capacity- more tanks. If you add 2 more air tanks under the bed you get 2x the reserve capacity.

Remember most of the time you are not using any air. For times of high demand, having more reserve capacity makes more sense to me. Set up a second system of tanks, with a check valve system that fills the tanks that provide braking first, then only fills the second tanks after the braking tanks are full.

Run all your accessories off the second set of tanks.

Unless you are going to have a long run of straight use, the extra capacity provided by the extra tanks would be enough for most uses.

 

[Lonesome715]

I like that idea... a lot actually.

 

[sewerzuk]

My

Biggest disadvantage I see is the total electrical power that would be required to match the deuce compressor's flow rate with an electric one.
Viair compressors are GREAT machines for their designed use (I have installed 20-30 electric viair compressors and air tanks in different rigs; mostly 400C's and 450c's and I have 450C's in every vehicle I own, except for my deuce) However, to match the CFM rating of the factory engine driven compressor (which I am guessing is somewhere close to 10CFM), you would likely need 5 or 6 of the viair 450c units. Each one pulls roughly 20 Amps. That's over 100A, give or take, when the compressors are running. And that is just to match the same flow rate as the factory unit...
There are, of course, larger electric compressors; oasis makes a 9 CFM machine for around $1000-$1500; it draws 180A. No matter how you plan it, I don't think it will be possible to come up with an adequate flow rate for a reasonable current draw. Any time you take mechanical energy, convert it to electrical energy, and back to mechanical again you lose a significant amount of efficiency...

The next disadvantage I see is the reliability and longevity of the system. You are adding several components to the system (electric motor, wiring, electric pressure switch, relays, fuses, etc.) that are all additional failure points that aren't in the factory deuce system.

My advice is to stick with a mechanical compressor. You'll be able to get a higher volume of air with better reliability and lower cost with it.

I personally have found my deuce's compressor to be adequate to run a small impact gun, nailers, air up tires, etc. However, if you decide that you need more, you can always add additional air tanks. You can even place a check valve in line with the feed to your factory air tank, ensuring that it won't back-fill the aux tank in the event of some kind of over-demand, compressor failure, etc.

edit: I wrote this before I saw Chief_919's post recommending the additional air tanks. His suggestion is exactly the same as mine...

 

[Lonesome715]

I did not realize it would take such a large electric compressor to make up the difference. I know it does take power from the engine to make the electrical system work harder but I did nto know it would take so much. There is a butt ton of stuff I want to do to this truck. And I realize some of it is just not worth the hassle. I will crawl under there tomorrow and figure out how I want to lay out additional tanks. Now is there any reason I cannot use two tanks from another duece? That way it all looks the same.

 

[mudguppy]

the flow rates of the OE compressor have been posted up on SS before; i don't remember them off the top of my head, but 10 cfm sounds real high.

however, 'Zuk's point is the same as the one i made earlier; it'll take more than one electric pump to match the flow of the mechanical pump.

it's up to you if you want to match the flow. otherwise, increasing the air storage capacity will enable a smaller pump to perform adequately; you'll just have to wait a bit longer to recharge the tank(s).

if i were going to do something like this and i needed to retain air for brakes, i'd incorporate check valves and pressure valves to fill the brake boost tank first to alleviate long charge-up times so i could get on the road more quickly.

 

[clinto]

I will crawl under there tomorrow and figure out how I want to lay out additional tanks. Now is there any reason I cannot use two tanks from another duece? That way it all looks the same.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-...4283-double-your-air-double-your-impacts.html

 

[sewerzuk]

the flow rates of the OE compressor have been posted up on SS before; i don't remember them off the top of my head, but 10 cfm sounds real high.

Did a little diggin'
The factory deuce compressor is rated at 7.25 CFM.
I was a little high in my guess, but the point is still valid...now that I have exact numbers, here is the math for the viair units:
at 1.6 CFM, it would take 4.5 (we'll figure 5) viair 450c's to produce the same flow rate of the factory compressor. Each one draws 22A, so we're looking at 110 Amps.

 

[jamesfrom180]

For on board air (non-deuce obviously) I use a CO2 tank. 22 bucks a fill up and for my needs last pretty long time. Its a 20 lb cylinder.

Has anyone thought about using a High-pressure system as a back up? Some issues are the air charge is cold at high flow and lets not forget dangerous. But properly filled and maintained like anything pretty safe. Air source is dry also.

Thoughts are use the mechanical for stock system as stated before, but for emergency or accessories use the auxiliary system. Charged type system so once you use it its done. I forget the usable volume but I know it will air up a 35 inch tire from 0-35 psi close to 14 times. I have a fixed reg at 150psi. but you can spec multiple types.

 

[Lonesome715]

Thanks for the link! That looks like a some what simple set up.

 

[mudguppy]

Did a little diggin'
The factory deuce compressor is rated at 7.25 CFM.
I was a little high in my guess, but the point is still valid...now that I have exact numbers, here is the math for the viair units:
at 1.6 CFM, it would take 4.5 (we'll figure 5) viair 450c's to produce the same flow rate of the factory compressor. Each one draws 22A, so we're looking at 110 Amps.

was that 7 cfm at rated rpm, idle, high idle, etc?

but you're completely correct; it will take multiple electric pumps to match the cfm of a mechanical unit.

as you and others pointed out, the rest of the system (accumulation) can affect the overall performance. i think it can be done [replace the mechanical unit w/ electric unit(s)] with some other compromises/modifications.

it all has to do with defining the end-state performance goals.

 

[Lonesome715]

I had no idea that little pump works that hard. I just recieved my rebiuld kit and hope to find the time to have it done soon.