Has Iraqi Hezbollah Acquired an American M1A1 tank?

[GoldComet6]

​I have been concerned about this for years - our best equipment falling into the hands of our enemies. I guess next we'll have to try and destroy these tanks.

From the "Defense Update" web site....

A video recently aired on YouTube shows an alarming situation happening in Iraq, where heavy equipment delivered by the U.S. To the Iraqi Army reaches extremist groups in the country – some are jihadists fighting against the government (ISIS and its supporters) and others are Iranian backed extremist groups presently supporting the Iraqi Forces.
The convo shown in this video shows a long group of vehicles, comprising mainly pickup trucks, but also various vehicles provided by the USA to the Iraqi Forces, including M1A1 main battle tanks, transported on standard US Army Heavy Equipment Transporter (HET), M113 Armored Personnel Carriers and M151, military trucks hacked with rocket launchers to become mobile rocket launchers. Unlike tanks shown by ISIS, that were damaged in battle, this equipment seems intact, and may have been taken by the Hezbollah from Iraqi storage of abandoned by military units.

According to The Long War Journal, kata’ib hezbollah, receives funding, training, logistics, guidance, and material support from the Iranian Qods Force, the external operations wing of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. The radical militia has joined the fight against the Islamic State in Iraq. In addition, other Iranian-supported Shia militias, such as Asaib al Haq, Badr Organization, and Muqtada al Sadr’s Promised Day Brigades have played a prominent role on the battlefield.
Despite this, the group was unofficially assisted by US airstrikes when Iraqi and Kurdish forces broke the siege of Amerli in Salahaddin province, although, according to US announcements, the call for fires were at “the request of the Government of Iraq” and “in support of an operation to deliver humanitarian assistance to address the humanitarian crisis and protect the civilians trapped in Amerli.

http://defense-update.com/20150128_how-iraqi-hezbollah-acquired-an-american-m1a1-tanks.html#.VMrjW9LF9gw

 

[FMJ]

geez. . .

 

[sigo]

It was bound to happen. Good thing they're base model M1A1's. They don't have all the options ours do. I wonder where they're getting training and parts? Oh yea, they're not. Sure, they'll figure out how to run it and maybe they can feed it captured ammo. Rest assured even the best Iraqi army tanker turned jihadi is probably barely fit to train a bunch of dirty ISIS booger eaters to be competent armor crewmen. Not to mention a M1A1 vs. A-10/F-15/16/18 isn't much of a fight. This may be bad news for the next Iraqi city or IA BN, but a few captured M1's are hardly a decisive victory.

Still, it's painful to see US equipment in the hands of the enemy. We spent far too much blood and treasure trying to make Iraq resemble something inhabitable... I've got a lot to say about that...

 

[Jeepsinker]

Ive heard that they are all export versions of our tanks, but I'm sure that some of them are ours that just got left over there when we pulled out. So the answer is... Likely yes. They very well may have our best armor technology and weaponry technology in hand.

 

[sigo]

Contrary to popular belief we're pretty careful about leaving the good stuff. A lot of people spend a lot of time accounting for everything that matters. Sure we make mistakes and bad decisions, but the retrograde from Iraq was hardly like the embassy in Saigon in '75. The hoards weren't pounding on the gates when we left.

I wasn't in Iraq at the time, but I have been part of the last US contingent to leave another country and we didn't leave sh*t for them.

 

[FMJ]

The freakin Iranians are still flying F-14's we gave the Shah back in the 70's, parts can be had, Egypt, for 1 operates M1's

Send in the Warthogs. . . . oh wait, we're getting rid of those. . . no mission, to expensive. . .

 

[TsgtB]

It just makes a better target....
As much as we gave them and trained them to defend themselves.. first chance they get, they cry and run away.
Now I am hearing they want MORE support and arms from us, and WHY aren't we giving them the help we should....
Been there, done that...
Let them kill each other off and watch from the sidelines....

 

[sigo]

They got 80 of them decades ago. Sure some of those F-14s are still flying... barely. There's plenty of info available on the state of the Shah's equipment. We don't have to worry much about the F-14s that are still hanging on. They made a decent showing fighting the Iraqis, but they're just symbolic now. Again, they'll hardly be decisive in a future conflict.

 

[GoldComet6]

This should help explain their versions..... Don't forget they have requested F-16 C/Ds also.

M1 Abrams Tanks for Iraq

Jul 16, 2014 16:09 UTC by Defense Industry Daily staff

July 16/14: Support. General Dynamics Land Systems in Sterling Heights, MI receives a $65.3 million contract modification to foreign military sales contract for specialized training, contractor logistics support, and base life support for the Iraq M1A1 Abrams Program. Funding and work location will be determined with each order, until Feb. 28, 2015. US Army Contracting Command in Warren, MI manages the FMS-class purchase on behalf of their Iraqi client (W56HZV-13-D-0015, PO 0010).

Since the US withdrawal, Iraq is now responsible for security and provisions/ quartering (“base life support”) for all in-country support contractors. That tends to hike costs (q.v. Oct 30/12). Meanwhile, Iraq’s interior threats (q.v. April 2013) have sure metastasized, thanks in part to inept and sectarian governance from Prime Minister Maliki. The Kurds have taken Kirkuk and effectively seceded, while a very well-organized hard-line Sunni group called ISIS has established The Islamic state across much of Sunni Iraq and notable portions of Syria. Baghdad in effectively encircled in a quasi-siege, which is more or less the strategy that Al-Qaeda couldn’t succeed with when fighting an opponent of America’s caliber. Against a more lightly equipped opponent with massive ethnic divisions and corruptions within the ranks, even one bolstered by Iranian Revolutionary Guard battalions, who knows? Mr. Sykes and Mr. Picot appear to be absent, and could not be reached for comment.

​

Tanks often decide battles, unless aircraft are around. Iraq had a lot of unfriendly visits by the USAF from 1991-2003, which left the largest armored force in the region looking to rebuild their armored corps from zero. Early donations and salvage fielded a small set of Soviet-era weapons, but after tangling with the Americans one too many times, the Iraqis knew what they really wanted. They wanted what their opponents had.
On July 31/08, the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency announced Iraq’s formal request to buy M1 Abrams tanks

, well as the associated vehicles, equipment and services required to keep them in the field. The tanks will apparently be new-build, not transferred from American stocks. With this purchase, Iraq became the 4th M1 Abrams operator in the region, joining Egypt (M1A1s), Kuwait (M1A2), and Saudi Arabia (M1A2-SEP variant). A similar December 2008 request was confirmed to be additive, and deliveries have now finished on the initial order. So, what’s next?

The Tanks

​

“M1A1-SA” (Situational Awareness) tanks are a modification set designed by the US Army, in response to their experiences in Iraq. It is potentially complementary to the M1 TUSK (Tank Urban Survivability Kit) upgrade, which adds a set of advanced sensors and machine gun operated from inside the vehicle, a loader’s armored gun shield, explosive-reactive armor tiles, a remote thermal sight, and an improved power distribution box, as well as other key modifications. See the accompanying article’s graphic for more.
The Iraqis have evidently responded to these tanks’ success on the ground, and Iraq’s tanks appear to borrow a number of these characteristics. Modifications for the American set include:

• 
  [*=left]2nd-generation FLIR (Forward-Looking Infrared) sights, which make a difference on the battlefield. General Dynamics releases specifically mention this feature for Iraq’s tanks.
  [*=left]Far Target Locate.
  [*=left]An eye-safe laser rangefinder.
  [*=left]Driver’s vision enhancements. These may include BAE System’s DVRC rear-view thermal camera. General Dynamics releases specifically mention this feature for Iraq’s tanks.
  [*=left]A power distribution box (note all of the associated electronics in these modifications).
  [*=left]A rear slave receptacle. An auxiliary power (slave) receptacle is used to start a vehicle when its batteries are unable to supply starting current. A D-N-I.NET article had a couple of interesting points from the field re: the slave receptacle’s design
  
  and positioning, and indeed the M1 upgrade initiatives generally.
  [*=left]A tank-infantry phone that is mounted on the outside of the tank, and can be picked up by accompanying infantry. This modification has been used on tanks for decades, but was left out of the M1. It improves coordination, without forcing the tank crew to come out and expose themselves to enemy fire. This had been a frequent request from infantry troops in Iraq, whose urban situations make this feature especially useful; it is featured on both M1A1-SA and M1 TUSK tanks.

One addition specifically mentioned for Iraqi M1s is turbine engines developed through the US Army’s TIGER (Total Integrated Engine Revitalization) program, along with pulse-jet filter cleaning systems added to improve performance in Iraq’s dust and grit.

There are also 2 enhancements that are normal on US Army tanks, but may not feature on Iraqi vehicles:

• 
  [*=left]Blue Force Tracking (BFT)/Force Battle Command Brigade and Below (FBCB2), which shows the positions of friendly forces and identified enemies on a computer screen.
  [*=left]Explosive Reactive Armor tiles, which protect against incoming anti-tank missiles, rockets, and shells. The USA uses a set developed by a partnership between General Dynamics and Israel’s RAFAEL. Other manufacturers exist for this concept, but any tile set sold will have to be designed to fit the M1 Abrams.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/m1-abrams-tanks-for-iraq-05013/

​

 

[FMJ]

I'm not worried about the F-14's either, I was trying to point out that there are other countries in the region that operate and have access to M1A1 parts, and operational experience.

 

[TsgtB]

war

War is $$$
Sell them our old outdated equipment (F16/C were built in 1985....)
and make sure they don't get "the good stuff" (so we never have a problem shooting them down).
If we have to fight against our own equipment, we also know how to disable them.
Just like us training the Taliban to fight the Afghans, we have a good idea how they would fight US, until they learn better.

 

[emmado22]

They wont be able to keep it running.. US tank crews pull LOTS of maintenance on their tracks daily. Once some LRU's crap out, they wont be able to fix it,as they wont know whats wrong and don't have spares to replace bad parts with.

 

[bchauvette]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. I add incompetence to that. The plan is to have local folks take over the fight as we bug out leaving them with war material. It never works yet we keep on doing it!!!! A general on TV actually recently said this is what we do best!!!

There is an other thread that talk about this, along with other things, how resourceful people can be with our left over stuff. Remember the pics of technicals with jet fighter noses rocket pods mounted and firering.


http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?134784-MV-left-in-Viet-Nam

 

[swbradley1]

Ok. At this point I see a difference between a bunch of terrorist turds getting HMMWVs, M939s and M1A1s running and moving and in the case of the tank, shooting and a technologically advanced nation like Iran refurbishing F14s with "modern" equipment and keeping them in the air.

While it is possible to keep an M1A1 turbine running (it is a multi-fuel after all) do you really think they can keep the engines with something like this?



Nothing like having to tote around tree limbs to burn while you are fighting the good guys.

I've seen documentaries on what the tanks look like after months of service in Iraq and the engines look like someone just threw rocks into the turbine.

Can a bunch of Jihadists do it? We'll see.

 

[Flyingvan911]

I agree with sigo. Demil by A-10.

 

[FASTNOVA]

Well since we are on the topic of wasteful spending I thought to share this documentary with yall. At 10:16 you can see piles of MV parts going to waste.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CvWJVtEkUE

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Without training, they're paperweights.

No support infrastructure.... They'll go a couple hundred miles.

Against modern anti-armor air platforms, they don't stand a chance.

A trained pilot in an F86 Sabre will crush an untrained pilot in an F22


Look at the Vietnam War... Russian supplied migs were better than the F4s being flown by us, but they had no training and were picked off without a problem...

 

[Carlo]

I made a request to the US Army European operations in Germany for any armor equipment through the Italian defense minister and the official reply was ITS TO RISKY OUR ARMOR MIGHT END UP ON UNFRIENDLY HANDS. The Italian, UK, German governments donate MBT's to us with no worries. Now I hear the ISIS has M1's!!

 

[nirvana]

While the tanks will break down, it seems bad from a design standpoint to let the enemy have samples of our equipment. What's in the armor of an M1A1? Iran can know now. Whats the weakest spot on an M1A1 for shaped charges? For a little money, the Russian can have their own to test. How are these tanks best set on fire? The Chinese can find out. These are problems that will plague us long after these few tanks have been forgotten.

 

[sigo]

Most of those things haven't been secrets for quite awhile. The things we want to remain secret are generally excluded in the export versions. Egypt made 1000+ M1 tanks under license, so foreign governments have access.