help me design a radio shelter

[nf6x]

I think you did a great job on your shelter, Aswayze!

 

[uscgmatt]

Aswayze, looking good. I like the Saic computer. I use one to program the old spectra radios as they require dos.

 

[Aswayze]

I love the old SAIC.

We use it for a variety of things at East Wind and it is always fun to watch members of the younger generation struggle with that thing.

There are one or two of us who are used to it’s antics and can usually get it to do things like… Print…. But for the most part it just frustrates everyone who comes near it.

We’re reenacting a European theater deployed unit in the 80s-90s and the big joke when the SAIC is afflicting someone is to say “Don’t worry, being unable to use the computer is period correct”

Most guys will stick it out and eventually get the hang of it but many others soon find the little Smith Corona manual typewriter and just use it instead.

 

[maddawg308]

Some good ideas in this thread, thanks!

I gave it some thought this past weekend at a hamfest, I believe I will still do a lot of military radios, but will have civvy radios for ease of use plus backups in case I need them.

Was also thinking about a couple UPS backup power supplies, rackmount, to run the computer and a couple radios in the event the genset goes belly-up, at least for a couple minutes until I save data, and I sign off on the radios.

Power would be provided by a genset located outside the shelter. I think a 3KW would do nicely for most use. I doubt I would need anything bigger...

Also, one thing that popped in my mind is I'd like to have a couple electronic tools in the shelter to repair anything that breaks. A simple O-scope like a Tektronix 465M would be the most useful, IMHO. Also a hand meter, Fluke or something similar. Soldering iron too. Maybe a basic signal generator, and freq. counter like a HP 5245. Nothing new or fancy in the test eqp. category, just enough to get the job done.

This is going to be a neat project....

 

[Recon Charlie Alpha]

Indeed! Looking forward to seeing it progress.

Youll need to clean up the genset AC, its going to be too dirty to power sensitive electronics. The UPS units could do the job there, if they have that feature ( wave form cleanup and minor spike protection)

The mix of freqs will provide some interesting antenna interaction challenges. Youll need an antenna analyzer (or 2) at minimum and most likley some pass band filters.....may have to build those for the military radios.

 

[135gmc]

Remember that the MIL rates their generators for operation at higher elevations - if you're running closer to sea level, their rating increases.

 

[maddawg308]

Indeed! Looking forward to seeing it progress.

Youll need to clean up the genset AC, its going to be too dirty to power sensitive electronics. The UPS units could do the job there, if they have that feature ( wave form cleanup and minor spike protection)

The mix of freqs will provide some interesting antenna interaction challenges. Youll need an antenna analyzer (or 2) at minimum and most likley some pass band filters.....may have to build those for the military radios.

BPFs and antenna matching units will be a given. Power will more than likely have to be filtered through a power conditioner, or like you said, UPS with similar features. I plan to have several different antenna setups on the outside of the shelter. I don't plan on TXing over multiple freqs or on multiple bands at the same time, so a duplexer is not required.

135gmc - I don't think I will be going with a mil generator. Too **** loud, I want to be able to think if I'm operating. Methinks something more commercial and quiet, thinking a 3KW Honda super-quiet set.

 

[135gmc]

Agreed. A commerccial generator is probably the best choice, especially considering the noise and weight of a MIL generator. I've had good luck using better mufflers on MIL generators, but they will never be as quiet as a Honda. And there's no way one person can drag a MIL 3 KW gen set very far, so you'd be stuck with it fairly near your shelter. It would probably be harder to steal, though.....

 

[nf6x]

I just had an idea. I recently bought a pair of bumper-mounted swing-away Ibis Tek carriers for my HMMWV. One's a spare tire carrier, and the other's a jerry can carrier that will hold four cans. I think I'll need to modify the bumper mounting to move the bumper a few inches aft so that they can clear the shelter, but that's a problem for another day. Anyway, it just occurred to me that instead of sticking jerry cans on the can carrier, what if I instead use it to hold a quiet 3kW Honda generator to power my shelter? I have a smaller 2kW unit that is very nice, but a bit too small to run the whole RTTY rig.

Just throwing it out there in case it inspires you.

 

[135gmc]

Considering the weight of a large spare tire, that might be an idea. You would probably need to lock it to the carrier though - if it's light and quiet, its also very portable. That's one advantage of a MIL generator --- fairly theftproof unless the crook has about 3 friends helping him.....

 

[maddawg308]

I'm sure I can come up with a cage-like enclosure for the genset, which will allow air to cool the genset while still preventing anyone without a torch from stealing it. It's all steel and TIG welding, but it's doable.

 

[jaxsof]

Mike, I am in the process of solar-ing the AO, and have ammassed some information on batteries and inverters. Once you figure out what kind of power your gonna need, and pure or modified sine wave form, shoot me a PM. Also, I may have a tektronix you can have, really cheap. Yes, it still works.
John

 

[maddawg308]

John, thanks, I appreciate it!

I don't think solar would work as the primary mode of power. The primary reason is I don't like the idea of solar panels mounted on the roof, facing up, I live in the woods and dropping branches and other debris during T-storms would trash them quickly. I might want a folding Spec-Ops type solar panel system for emergency comms, but that's not a priority. Maybe down the road.

I hear you, though on the power and inverter setup. I know for sure I'll need 120 VAC 60 Hz, and 24 VDC, and probably 12 VDC. I don't plan on any aircraft radios, but if one gets in there, it would require 120 VAC 400 Hz. I'd like to stay away from 400 Hz units, they will throw the power reqs. off into the "oddball" range of things.

 

[jaxsof]

I didnt mean to suggest solar, but I have some inverter research that may come in handy. You can get quite a few hours out of batteries and inverters, not just a few minutes to scream around shutting down. One of my small batteries is 540 amp-hours. you would need 2 for 12v to feed the inverter, but you could operate almost a week on the 250 watts you'll be consuming. (without the refrigerator). (Wasnt thinking) or get 4 and go right with the 24v, and all the amps you could ever want, and maybe a small inverter for the human conveniences ie. lights, fridge, etc.

However, just a thought, PV panels will take 50 lbs/SqFt, and at 200 watts per hour, one would keep your batts charged between operating sessions.

 

[maddawg308]

Put in more thought about the basic layout. I'm not a tech guru with a drafting program, I just have Windows Paint, but you can see the basic layout I want.

Bottom is the doorway.

Left side is living quarters and related, storage, a place for a microwave, dorm fridge, possibly a sink and a small overhead water tank, but I haven't given too much thought about that yet. The bunks would have to be custom made by me, no problems there. I'd like a design where the normal position for the top and bottom bunk would be flat for use, but would be hinged to fold up and chain to the wall, so you could stack stuff there temporarily, like stuff you're bringing to a show to sell, boxes, whatnot. Another idea that needs refinement.

Back wall is a small rifle rack for my, uh, toys. Above it would probably be the inflow for an air conditioner, Lord knows there would have to be some A/C to counter the heat generated in there by the radio gear, plus solar radiation from above.

Right side would be the gear area. Right side rear are a set of three floor-to-ceiling racks, first rack is power requirements, convertors, etc. for the rest of the gear. Other two racks are mil radios, any rack mounted test equipment, rack speakers, etc. Rest of the length of the right side is the bench, where most of the operating/maintenance would take place. Underneath, plenty of storage for parts, accessories, manuals, etc. Above the bench, shelves to hold most of the civilian ham radio equipment. The civvy gear would mostly be mobile rigs, they don't put out as much wattage as the tabletop base stations, but they are usually more rugged, cheaper, and if I want to bump up the output I can always have an amp waiting in the before-mentioned racks. I'd also put in a PC computer (probably rack mount as well), to allow me to do data modes such as CW, PSK31, RTTY, SSTV, etc. Doesn't need to even be a fast computer, it won't be surfing the internet or doing gaming, it's only for use to translate and send data modes.

If anyone has seen OPCOM's setup, the basic layout is similar, although I don't think he had bunks in one side, I think it was just storage areas.

I want to get going on this before the end of the year, at least purchasing an S-280 shelter and starting the process of converting it. Seeing all of you guys tear into shelters and van trailers is making me get antsy about wanting to start my own shelter project.

 

[cranetruck]

Mike, Patrick (OPCOM) is selling his gear, it may be something there for you...

 

[maddawg308]

Got no money to invest in it right now, barely making ends meet. Hope to change that shortly, maybe then I'll look into what he has. He's too far from me for the big stuff, though.

 

[cranetruck]

Copy that.

 

[maddawg308]

After looking over matt1970m35's S-280 shelter, and coming up with further ideas, I've had the following thoughts:

1. No sink or water supply. While convenient for me for camping, I suddenly had a horrible thought about water and a sink on one side of the shelter, and high-end high-voltage electronic gear on the other. Not a great combo. I will leave spots for camping water in 5-gallon military water cans, though. But I would only use them outside the unit.

2. Matt recommended a computer install, but with a solid-state hard drive. He mentioned that he had a computer with a regular style hard drive that failed because of the vibration of the vehicle. I'm not sure if that's exactly the reason it failed, but it could be. A SS hard drive isn't that much more expensive than a regular one, so I think that's a good option.

 

[swbradley1]

The instantaneous g-force in the bed of a Deuce probably did damage the disk. On the USS America I had the old drive with 80Mb 14 inch platters and they lasted through cat strokes.

Good idea on the water though. You are getting smarter with age Mike.