Barneyszoo
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Sorry no he's still in the field
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Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
Help Stuck!! Trying to help came back to bite me!
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Barneyszoo
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Yes 1 snatch block was in use at the time.
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Barneyszoo
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Even airing down the tires did not help. I think in Alaska they call this stuff muskag. One rotation of the tire on the 5 ton and it was sitting on the diff.
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Half the fun of off roading is getting it out!
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I went out in my civy pick up a week or so ago to "look" and see how bad a friend's SUV was stuck. A couple people were telling me it was IMPOSSIBLE to get out with my deuce. We checked everything out in the pouring rain and went to get the deuce. We were having FUN. Then due to some bad advice backing up my civy truck slide off the side of the road. Fun was OVER.
Just had to catch a ride to the deuce and she pulled everything out easily, but my getting stuck took the fun and adventure out of it.
I can't even guess how UNFUN it was for Phil to bury his five ton and break his PTO shft.
As I understand it, they had a snatch block, a 5 ton, a bobbed deuce and a loaded dump truck. The OP is STUCK.
FM5332FF
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this kind of reminds me of the florida rally last year... ha
PropDr
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Thanks for your concern, it is appreciated. As for the physics aspect of it I have a reasonably good working knowledge of how to use blocks, tackle, levers, and ramps to gain mechanical advantage. The driveline failure was a freak thing or possibly due to the pin not meeting spec. Back in the 80's their was a major problem with counterfeit hardware from china making its way into the aerospace and defense market. Who knows if it was heat treated correctly or that they used the correct alloy. Their is a **** of a difference in strength between 7575T6 and 6061T6 .375 dia pin in double shear. The thing that has had me stumped was how to anchor to basicly goo to pull a load. 1 to 1.5 foot below the surface and you hit water. A dead anchor will work assuming I can sink enough surface area into the ground over a very wide area.
Unforgiven
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Plywood & a couple of hi-lifts would have that out after you level up the ground a bit for the plywood.
Bring some old carpet too to give the rear wheels some bite.
Bring some old carpet too to give the rear wheels some bite.
3dAngus
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Hope you got it out OK.
Looks like my kind of fun. I can't tell you how many times I bottomed out a track loader in the muck. Once, it had to sit there for three months, because NOTHING would pull it out. It was not only bottomed, but stuck on a stump.
I dug it out by hand in the spring, and drove it out in the opposite direction of the stump.
Looks like my kind of fun. I can't tell you how many times I bottomed out a track loader in the muck. Once, it had to sit there for three months, because NOTHING would pull it out. It was not only bottomed, but stuck on a stump.
I dug it out by hand in the spring, and drove it out in the opposite direction of the stump.
feets
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You really should not get a heavier vehicle (the 5 ton) close to a lighter vehicle (the deuce) that sank quickly and easily. Keep your distance.
Texas sinkholes get sneaky. Some areas have pockets of water close to the surface. If you move a few feet one way or the other you'll be on hard ground. Right in the middle you sink deep. There's no way to tell looking at the surface.
Here's a little evidence:
If you look in the background you can see the 40 ton winch dozer that sank trying to get to the excavator. It took a second winch dozer to get the first one out. The excavator came out two weeks later after digging with a small backhoe and pulling with the winch dozer.
Texas sinkholes get sneaky. Some areas have pockets of water close to the surface. If you move a few feet one way or the other you'll be on hard ground. Right in the middle you sink deep. There's no way to tell looking at the surface.
Here's a little evidence:
If you look in the background you can see the 40 ton winch dozer that sank trying to get to the excavator. It took a second winch dozer to get the first one out. The excavator came out two weeks later after digging with a small backhoe and pulling with the winch dozer.
feets
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oopsie! Here's the pic.
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Unforgiven
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10 step program
step by step, you'll be out within 2 hours or less:
1-level up the ground in front of the front bumper.
2-obtain two high lift jacks designed for lifted 4x4 trucks. Four jacks would be even better if you have buddies with them. (bring some bottle jacks &/or floor jacks with smaller pieces of plywood as well (to put under frame or axle as needed).
3-place 4x8 sheet of plywood in front of bumper on flattened ground.
4-put one high-lift on each side of front bumper. If needed, place the already existing 4x4 lumber or cinder blocks under the high-lifts base to maximize the lift height.
5-Jack away.
6-Fill in the holes under the wheels with whatever. Lumber, gravel, garbage, tree limbs, carpet,
7-Provide traction for the rear wheels with gravel, sand, carpet, lumber, etc.
8-remove high lifts.
9-drive home.
10-buy buddies lots & lots of beer for spending an entire weekend helping you.
step by step, you'll be out within 2 hours or less:
1-level up the ground in front of the front bumper.
2-obtain two high lift jacks designed for lifted 4x4 trucks. Four jacks would be even better if you have buddies with them. (bring some bottle jacks &/or floor jacks with smaller pieces of plywood as well (to put under frame or axle as needed).
3-place 4x8 sheet of plywood in front of bumper on flattened ground.
4-put one high-lift on each side of front bumper. If needed, place the already existing 4x4 lumber or cinder blocks under the high-lifts base to maximize the lift height.
5-Jack away.
6-Fill in the holes under the wheels with whatever. Lumber, gravel, garbage, tree limbs, carpet,
7-Provide traction for the rear wheels with gravel, sand, carpet, lumber, etc.
8-remove high lifts.
9-drive home.
10-buy buddies lots & lots of beer for spending an entire weekend helping you.
oldMan99
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Well.... From the looks of it and the previous postings, I am guessing the fun is all used up now and this has just turned into a meeting of administrators (In other words, a cluster***k) Not in a derogatory way towards those out there trying to rescue this thing from the mud zombies but in a "If it were not for bad luck I would have no luck at all" way. I imagine attitudes and tempers are wearing pretty thin about now.
Of course in attempting to look at the bright side.. There is a building of friendships going on that sitting on the beach looking at pretty girls will never accomplish and there will be some good stories.... (remember, that was an ATTEMPT to find a bright side...)
Now, back to the issue at hand... My apologies if I seem to have "Gone off" in my first post. Since there was no mention of the snatch block use I assumed none had been used. Now reading that one was in use I feel a bit out of line in this case.
As noted, I would suspect that the shear pin was in one way or the other defective be it counterfeit or otherwise, and yeah, there is a HUGE problem of counterfeit parts in not only the aircraft industry but in many industries, including fastening hardware, (Nuts and bolts). Not long ago I read an industry paper about a US Customs seizure of several 40' containers of counterfeit "Grade 8 and grade 5" nuts and bolts.
What really sucks is that a defective $.99 part has cost a good man a couple hundred dollar repair AND left another stranded in that quagmire.
That said I can attempt to offer some advise that may be useful depending on the current situation.
In one of the pictures I see there is another truck backed up in what looks like a position to tr to pull the stuck vehicle. I am assuming (here we go assuming again) that your currently out of vehicles with big winches so direct pulling is the only current option. At some point I had mentioned using tackle from truck to truck to gain mechanical advantage and simulate a winch. Assuming there is cable enough and either 2 or 4 (or more) snatch blocks this might be worth attempting/considering.
There are 2 basic methods of "Winch free" use of snatch blocks/cable to you can rig. One involves only the pulling and stuck vehicle. The other involves a "Dead anchor". I have made a VERY rudimentary drawing of the methods as it will make the text much more understandable and clear up any misunderstanding. The drawing is below.
The "Dead Anchor" method:
This anchor can be anything that is large and heavy enough to anchor the whole rigging on. The anchor will not move, (At least we do not want/intend for it to move as it is not supposed to move!) A huge tree, a really heavy truck... You can use a "new" or additional dead anchor if 1 really large one is not available. This is actually a good idea as it will spread the anchoring load over more than one vehicle/tree or whatever. When you use this method you can end the cable on either the stuck vehicle or an anchor. The more snatch blocks the better. Being as this particular stuck has been going on for some time now and your probably ready for it to be done, I would say round up as many blocks and as much cable as you can and use every block available. Connect shorter lengths of cable with appropriate shackles or hooks. Be careful when pulling and watch for the attachment points (where the shorter pieces of cable attach to each other) as they get close to your blocks. Your going to have to stop and re-rig so that the block is on the other side of the block.
As I noted above, with enough blocks/cable using this method you can pull just about anything out of anything it is stuck in. The key is to use enough blocks and strong enough anchors.
The other method is what you have to use if only the pulling vehicle is available and no other anchor points can/will be used. This is pretty simple. You just rig as many blocks between the two vehicles as you have/can. The important thing here is that you CAN NOT end the cable back on the pulling vehicle. If you do, all your advantage and rigging is useless as you will not have any advantage, only 1:1 pull just like you only ran a single line. However, what this will do for you is allow you to use what is really to small of a cable to effectively increase the working load of the cable. (Not really what we are looking for here but if you find that you have a small cable and you need to do a big job, that is one way to get it done).
Of course in either method it is important that the pulling vehicle have good footing/be in a position it is not likely to get stuck and that the pulling be done very smoothly and not apply sudden shock loads to the rigging. You can cushion or protect the load/rigging somewhat by using an appropriately load rated snatch strap between the pulling vehicle and the cable. Since this section of rigging will not have to pass through any snatch blocks and it effectively lengthens your cable (hopefully allowing the pulling vehicle to remain on a paved surface?!?) and it will lessen any accidental shock loading it is a good idea to use if you have a suitable strap available. (20 or 30' is needed to provide a good shock absorbing effect. A 6 or 8' choker is better than noting but it is really to short to do much of a good shock absorbing job.
The rigging for "Dead anchor" works just fine with a winch as well. You simply use the winch to pull instead of driving the truck. Likewise you can use this same rigging using the winch vehicle as the only anchor and when doing so you can end the cable on either vehicle. However, using only the winch truck as an anchor frequently means the anchor moves, not the stuck. I have seen many people anchor the back of the pulling vehicle to another vehicle/tree/anchor. This is a real good way to bend/tweak a truck frame. You really should never anchor the back of your truck to something and winch from the front of it. Instead, use the "Dead anchor" method and use the second vehicle as your anchor. Doing it this way you can use as many trucks as you have snatch blocks and safely spread the anchoring load making it much easier, safer and more effective all at the same time.
Somebody on scene mentioned the desire for a suitable way to create a suitable anchor in that muck to be able to pull from. In that sort of ground there is only 1 anchor I can think of that is relatively easy to use and at the same time very effective. (Of course this bit of info will not really help you on this stuck because your going to have to save up the $$ and order it, but the info might be useful for next time...) I mentioned this product in the "Minimum equipment" post but here it is again: Pull-Pal winch anchoring device for 4x4s, Jeeps, SUV, ATV, off-road, military use
Of course combining methods, the above rigging and something like Unforgiven's 10 step program will work all the more better.
As for the picture of the trackhoe above.... All I can say is that I'm glad it was not mine...lol... That is indeed an epic stuck. "Honey, I'm gonna be a few minutes late for dinner".....
I hope this post proves to be more useful and less "Preachy" than my first. Best of luck and next time, get stuck closer to my house so I can come help... I mean really....
Of course in attempting to look at the bright side.. There is a building of friendships going on that sitting on the beach looking at pretty girls will never accomplish and there will be some good stories.... (remember, that was an ATTEMPT to find a bright side...)
Now, back to the issue at hand... My apologies if I seem to have "Gone off" in my first post. Since there was no mention of the snatch block use I assumed none had been used. Now reading that one was in use I feel a bit out of line in this case.
As noted, I would suspect that the shear pin was in one way or the other defective be it counterfeit or otherwise, and yeah, there is a HUGE problem of counterfeit parts in not only the aircraft industry but in many industries, including fastening hardware, (Nuts and bolts). Not long ago I read an industry paper about a US Customs seizure of several 40' containers of counterfeit "Grade 8 and grade 5" nuts and bolts.
What really sucks is that a defective $.99 part has cost a good man a couple hundred dollar repair AND left another stranded in that quagmire.
That said I can attempt to offer some advise that may be useful depending on the current situation.
In one of the pictures I see there is another truck backed up in what looks like a position to tr to pull the stuck vehicle. I am assuming (here we go assuming again) that your currently out of vehicles with big winches so direct pulling is the only current option. At some point I had mentioned using tackle from truck to truck to gain mechanical advantage and simulate a winch. Assuming there is cable enough and either 2 or 4 (or more) snatch blocks this might be worth attempting/considering.
There are 2 basic methods of "Winch free" use of snatch blocks/cable to you can rig. One involves only the pulling and stuck vehicle. The other involves a "Dead anchor". I have made a VERY rudimentary drawing of the methods as it will make the text much more understandable and clear up any misunderstanding. The drawing is below.
The "Dead Anchor" method:
This anchor can be anything that is large and heavy enough to anchor the whole rigging on. The anchor will not move, (At least we do not want/intend for it to move as it is not supposed to move!) A huge tree, a really heavy truck... You can use a "new" or additional dead anchor if 1 really large one is not available. This is actually a good idea as it will spread the anchoring load over more than one vehicle/tree or whatever. When you use this method you can end the cable on either the stuck vehicle or an anchor. The more snatch blocks the better. Being as this particular stuck has been going on for some time now and your probably ready for it to be done, I would say round up as many blocks and as much cable as you can and use every block available. Connect shorter lengths of cable with appropriate shackles or hooks. Be careful when pulling and watch for the attachment points (where the shorter pieces of cable attach to each other) as they get close to your blocks. Your going to have to stop and re-rig so that the block is on the other side of the block.
As I noted above, with enough blocks/cable using this method you can pull just about anything out of anything it is stuck in. The key is to use enough blocks and strong enough anchors.
The other method is what you have to use if only the pulling vehicle is available and no other anchor points can/will be used. This is pretty simple. You just rig as many blocks between the two vehicles as you have/can. The important thing here is that you CAN NOT end the cable back on the pulling vehicle. If you do, all your advantage and rigging is useless as you will not have any advantage, only 1:1 pull just like you only ran a single line. However, what this will do for you is allow you to use what is really to small of a cable to effectively increase the working load of the cable. (Not really what we are looking for here but if you find that you have a small cable and you need to do a big job, that is one way to get it done).
Of course in either method it is important that the pulling vehicle have good footing/be in a position it is not likely to get stuck and that the pulling be done very smoothly and not apply sudden shock loads to the rigging. You can cushion or protect the load/rigging somewhat by using an appropriately load rated snatch strap between the pulling vehicle and the cable. Since this section of rigging will not have to pass through any snatch blocks and it effectively lengthens your cable (hopefully allowing the pulling vehicle to remain on a paved surface?!?) and it will lessen any accidental shock loading it is a good idea to use if you have a suitable strap available. (20 or 30' is needed to provide a good shock absorbing effect. A 6 or 8' choker is better than noting but it is really to short to do much of a good shock absorbing job.
The rigging for "Dead anchor" works just fine with a winch as well. You simply use the winch to pull instead of driving the truck. Likewise you can use this same rigging using the winch vehicle as the only anchor and when doing so you can end the cable on either vehicle. However, using only the winch truck as an anchor frequently means the anchor moves, not the stuck. I have seen many people anchor the back of the pulling vehicle to another vehicle/tree/anchor. This is a real good way to bend/tweak a truck frame. You really should never anchor the back of your truck to something and winch from the front of it. Instead, use the "Dead anchor" method and use the second vehicle as your anchor. Doing it this way you can use as many trucks as you have snatch blocks and safely spread the anchoring load making it much easier, safer and more effective all at the same time.
Somebody on scene mentioned the desire for a suitable way to create a suitable anchor in that muck to be able to pull from. In that sort of ground there is only 1 anchor I can think of that is relatively easy to use and at the same time very effective. (Of course this bit of info will not really help you on this stuck because your going to have to save up the $$ and order it, but the info might be useful for next time...) I mentioned this product in the "Minimum equipment" post but here it is again: Pull-Pal winch anchoring device for 4x4s, Jeeps, SUV, ATV, off-road, military use
Of course combining methods, the above rigging and something like Unforgiven's 10 step program will work all the more better.
As for the picture of the trackhoe above.... All I can say is that I'm glad it was not mine...lol... That is indeed an epic stuck. "Honey, I'm gonna be a few minutes late for dinner".....
I hope this post proves to be more useful and less "Preachy" than my first. Best of luck and next time, get stuck closer to my house so I can come help... I mean really....
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feets
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I never thought of using the pulling truck and two snatch blocks. Does this method still multiply the pulling force or does it simply spread the load over more cable?
I was digging around on youtube to find some winchouts and ran across a disturbing video. No doubt you'll have a few unhealthy thoughts about this one.
http://www.youtube.com/v/2WIgQaC8KXc
I was digging around on youtube to find some winchouts and ran across a disturbing video. No doubt you'll have a few unhealthy thoughts about this one.
http://www.youtube.com/v/2WIgQaC8KXc
oldMan99
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Yes!
Hey, I see that I just got promoted... Now maybe I can boss my wife's cat around.... lol.
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Them guys must be related to jeep boy from the GA rally!
Blood_of_Tyrants
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The biggest problem I see is that the axles are below the level of the ground and basically acting as an anchor. Solution is as above, get the axles above the ground level and the tires resting on something solid and you can back out of the place you are in.
panshark
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The only benefit of a doubt on this one is that maybe they didn't realize how catastrophically dangerous their position was until they saw it from a different angle.