High draft pulling without planetary reduction?

[stumps]

I recall many years ago, ads and film footage of old Jeeps and Powerwagons pulling small plows and other farm implements. They were actually ads from the factories of those rigs that showed them pulling these tools. Those rigs did not have planetary reduction. I believe only because they did not require the large diameter Ag tires that are now common place.

Some years ago, I went to a tractor show, and saw an MB jeep with an Ag hitch, and plow. I had never seen one before, so I asked my dad about it, and he told me that after WWII, jeeps showed up on surplus fairly cheaply, and some farmers tried using them to plow fields. It was a colossal failure. They were way too fast even in their lowest gears, and everything about them was just too light weight.

Plowing quickly ruined the axles, transfer cases, transmissions and clutches, and broke the frames. The engines were always overheating. Any 20-30HP farm tractor could beat them both in the way they plowed, and in longevity...

As a teen, my dad used one of the automobile conversion tractors on his dad's farm. It was a 1930's Buick with the Master-6 engine. The rear had to be replaced with a Model T truck rear (worm drive) to get the speed down, and to gain some strength. He said it was an acceptable tractor, but nothing compared to any commercially made farm tractor.. still way too fast. Where it was at its best was pulling trailers, mowing, and driving to school.... (when he was 13).

Shortly before my dad died, he was working on installing an even slower axle.. a 2 speed worm drive axle from another very old Ford truck. I still have that tractor stashed away in one of my outbuildings..

Anyway, I think you will find that pulling a plow with your 5T truck will be a very unsatisfactory experience. It is certain to be way too fast, and its engine isn't capable of putting out even 1/3 its rated HP on a continuous basis.

Run the numbers.

-Chuck

 

[tdubovsky]

Have you looked into aircraft tugs most of them are planetary and 4 wheel steering so they might work better nto sure on parts avalabilty either just throwing an idea out there

 

[98taco3]

As a JD tractor mechanic i have to ask why you wouldn't steer towards a 50 or 60 series JD? By the end of their production in the late 80s early 90s the engineers had them almost indestructible. They can be had fairly cheaply as well as parts both used and aftermarket are very plentiful as well as cost effective. Companies like ablilene machine and bridgeport tractor provide warrantied used parts at very good prices. Just stay away from the powershift transmissions if you are worried about repair costs related to other part failures. You can get a "standard" transmission in those tractors. Might be more cost effective for you than trying to adapt a truck that was never designed for the purpose. Whatever direction you decide to go in, im interested in seeing what you come up with!

 

[rizzo]

Thanks Rizzo. That wrecker with the cultivator sure looks clean and uncluttered. Did you do that, or are they naturally that organized?

Are those the 1400x20 tires on the disk truck?

the 108's came like that. flat empty deck.

the M810 5 ton has the 1600R20's with hemmet rims

 

[wreckerman893]

I was musing over your post and I remembered when I was stationed at Fort Benning, GA I met a guy at DRMO (no GL sales then) that was buying some big Cat forklifts.
He told me they were taking them to the midwest to convert them to farm tractors.

There is one coming up for sale on an un-named govenment aution site in the near future.

Shipping might be an issue but so is the cost of a new tractor of the same horsepower and size.

 

[bill2444]

I wanted to bump this interesting thread. So what did the poster use/come up with? how did it work?

 

[plym49]

I just came across this thread and it has provided a fascinating view 'behind the curtains' into the challenging world of those who feed us, as well as good, logical, innovative thought. Thank you.

 

[Excuse Me]

Still working on it. I have eliminated the idea of inboard final reduction however, at least at this time unless I find axles with stupid huge diameter to eliminate the wind up that occurs when applying that much torque to a long length of shaft.

Sam Winer has some planetary axles that will do the job, as I found out when talking to the creator of the tractors called "Big Bud".

Tires are no issue as the imported tires such as Trelleborg make tires in the right sizes that can take high road speeds.

I have currently a civilian truck project that I will be completing soon that though not pulling a high draft load, is going to be hauling some weight and pulling a heavy sprayer.

Here is a link to the project as it sits now with pictures.
sprayer project. - The Combine Forum

Thanks for looking.

 

[mktopside]

I have nothing useful to add, grew up and live in the burbs, amd the closest thing to farming I've ever done is a backyard garden and my pepper plants. However, I find this thread to be one of the most interesting threads I've ever read on this site.

Ok, stupid question time. So going with a lower reduction in the T-case won't work because you'll break the drive shafts? Am I tracking right?

 

[m16ty]

The link won't let me look at the pics without joining the forum.

I'm a farmer and can tell you that a military truck used in heavy tillage won't work very well. I'll take a 100hp ag tractor and run circles around a 5-ton truck. They just aren't made or can be converted easily for that type of work. There's a reason that those farmers that used road trucks for farming during hard times didn't stick with the concept.

I'd take a look at the Stieger tractors you mentioned earlier as how to build a tractor with "off-the-shelf" parts. I say you need to build the frame based on a ag tractor and use off-the-shelf parts to build the drive-train if you're looking to build something.

Today in agriculture, there is a huge influx of electonic control devices including gps guidance and auto steering. If you think about this, that auto steering and gps guidance, eliminates the need to sit in the middle of the tractor. So,......why pay for that proprietary cab when a truck cab is more comfy and roomy anyway.

I've been in the seat of a lot of military vehicles and cab tractors. Every cab tractor I've been in had a much better and comfy cab than a military vehicle.

 

[bill2444]

I've got a small farm, and am implementing the m35a2 where ever possible. I don't have a farm tractor yet, as it would turn my small profit farm into a non profit operation rather quickly. We are just starting out ( 2 yrs now) and working with what we have and slowly building up from there. I currently use my jeep to move round bails but would like to build a tine for the deuce to lift and move them. I'm definitely not Amish but i like using old time methods rather than having loans and technology. And with four children our small farm has been great everyone in the family. Especially me with a deuce and always an excuse to use it.

 

[Excuse Me]

I have nothing useful to add, grew up and live in the burbs, amd the closest thing to farming I've ever done is a backyard garden and my pepper plants. However, I find this thread to be one of the most interesting threads I've ever read on this site.

Ok, stupid question time. So going with a lower reduction in the T-case won't work because you'll break the drive shafts? Am I tracking right?

That's not a stupid question. It's quite valid. Yes, the reduction that far ahead of the wheel would increase the torque applied to the component system behind it. For low draft loads and other usage such as traversing terrain, the early reduction would work well, maybe even better as it would be lighter weight etc.

Gardening is farming and farming is gardening. Really, IMO, we are all in this together. A farmer is simply a very passionate gardener.....

 

[Excuse Me]

I'll try to sort of compress the project with a few pics. The rear axle is installed. It is a 5 ton with air brakes.

This is the front axle that will be powered with hydraulics. I had the guys at Boyce widen it and straighten the camber.






Steering was easy enough. I had a local machine shop do some creative bending of the drag link.


This how the rig looks now. I have the hydraulic pump mounted for the work units and will be installing another pump to power the propulsion assist axles like the front and the trailed sprayer axle, later.


Thanks for looking.

 

[Excuse Me]

Here's another bit of military hardware I've been using with great success on the farm. I put down liquid fertilizer with the front tool and the seeder. Bother are different fertilizers and placed at different locations to the seed. This trailer works awesome. I wish I had a few more.

 

[Csm Davis]

Buy a 818 my dad and his brothers and many more people I know have used them to move houses for years without major problems with the drivetrain. I think that it would go slow enough in low range if not you can put planetaries on the axles like they do the bus axles on monster trucks. Most of the transmission problems I have seen in military trucks was from dumping the clutch and breaking parts not wear. I say

 

[m16ty]

I think that setup you've got there will work great for light loads such as spraying and such. I still have my doubts how well it will work on heavy drawbar pulls in less than ideal field conditions. What I doubt about is the ability to hook all that power to the ground and if you do the drive train holding up.

 

[Excuse Me]

I think that setup you've got there will work great for light loads such as spraying and such. I still have my doubts how well it will work on heavy drawbar pulls in less than ideal field conditions. What I doubt about is the ability to hook all that power to the ground and if you do the drive train holding up.

The Sterling is only for light draft loads like spraying and pulling a drill. For the tillage and heavy draft, I will need considerably more truck.
I trust you have read the history of the Steiger Bros. ? All farm equipment began in a farm shop, not the factory's engineering room.

I built this sprayer on a 77' chev 3/4 ton chassis over 20 years ago. The cost of operation was so low it was not worth keeping records. It just never broke down and what few parts I needed were bought at napa, non-proprietary parts. It did all I asked and more. I cant say that for all the expensive pieces of.............shtuff I bought that was produced in a factory.

 

[mktopside]

You know...... I think you know you can make this work one way or another. And you certainly have the fabrication ability to work out the little kinks that might come up along the way.

My recommendation is to run with it. Find a 900 series 5 ton with the 8.3 cta cummins, haul it home and see what it can do. Take lots of pics, and when you break something, we'll be here to help you rig it back together, or at least stare in awe.

Compared to the cost of a new tractor, I dont see how this isn't worth a shot.

 

[dragonman]

Why dont you buy an older Steiger or something like it?

 

[dragonman]

The implements I am using and intend to be using coming up, do require quite a bit of low speed torque. They are also very, very heavy. These new type implements may weigh up to 25 ton.

What implements weigh 25 tons?