HMMVW starter Bendix stuck in flex plate

[Rdr Bama]

Hello everyone,
My first rodeo, so I appreciate all the help.
Just received my first hummer 1097A2. During my initial check, when I crawled underneath I found the starter Bendix still engaged.

Based on the picture below, my gut tells me not to even hook up the batteries, drop the starter and test it. Possibly replace the Bendix, solenoid ect...or buy a new starter.
Another post I read suggested it might withdraw when power is connected and could be a switch issue.
Instead of flipping a coin, I thought I would just ask to get an opinion or two.
Bonus points.....flex plate looks rusty and teeth have signs of grinding. However I've seen worse, broken and flat teeth. But when it comes to a hummer, what's your opinion of the flex plate?
Thank you!

 

[87cr250r]

Have you not tried to push the gear back with a screwdriver or something? Have you tried to rotate the engine? It might be seized.

 

[Rdr Bama]

Have you not tried to push the gear back with a screwdriver or something? Have you tried to rotate the engine? It might be seized.

I did try to push the gear back with flat head and again tapping with hammer.
I ran out of time today, but I will try get the engine to rotate. The troubleshooting tm said to remove glow plugs before seizure check.....which was another box on my list.
Thanks!

 

[87cr250r]

You can roll the engine any time. No need to remove glow plugs. You can lever it around with a screwdriver in the flywheel teeth or with a wrench on the crankshaft front bolt/pulley lugs depending on engine.

 

[Mogman]

Looks like the bendix and flywheel teeth are worn/striped to the point they will "slip"
The bendix should retract on its own without any battery involved, is there any evidence this truck has been submerged?
Hopefully not but I suspect the engine is seized, as 87 said you do not need to pull the glow plugs to try and turn the engine by hand.

 

[Mullaney]

I did try to push the gear back with flat head and again tapping with hammer.
I ran out of time today, but I will try get the engine to rotate. The troubleshooting tm said to remove glow plugs before seizure check.....which was another box on my list.
Thanks!

.
You might try pumping several ounces Marvel Mystery Oil into the glowplug holes without trying to turn the engine. Some top cylinder lubrication (MMO) might free rings ans help you avoid scratching the cylinder walls. You have no idea how long it sat, so lube could be your friend.

If you have a new pump oil can, 3 or 4 squirts isn't too much.

 

[juanprado]

Hello everyone,
My first rodeo, so I appreciate all the help.
Just received my first hummer 1097A2. During my initial check, when I crawled underneath I found the starter Bendix still engaged.

Based on the picture below, my gut tells me not to even hook up the batteries, drop the starter and test it. Possibly replace the Bendix, solenoid ect...or buy a new starter.
Another post I read suggested it might withdraw when power is connected and could be a switch issue.
Instead of flipping a coin, I thought I would just ask to get an opinion or two.
Bonus points.....flex plate looks rusty and teeth have signs of grinding. However I've seen worse, broken and flat teeth. But when it comes to a hummer, what's your opinion of the flex plate?
Thank you!

View attachment 893631
View attachment 893632

Did this truck come from Mobile? All those trucks came from Red River and have been sitting for a very long time probably 5 years or more....
Are there many parts missing and heavily cannibalized? If so, there is your answer on the motor and why it was turned in......

 

[GuntherRommel]

Looks like someone forgot to shim the starter again. pull the starter, its just 2 bolts and 1 nut

 

[papakb]

And a $hitload of muscle power to get that bugger out and back in! Some trucks never had the shim in them. Mines been running for 20 years without one.

 

[Rdr Bama]

Update... I was able to get the Bendix to retract after putting pressure on the flex plate. Better news, I was able to get the engine to turn!
Given the Bendix was stuck, I'm thinking either drop it for a bench test or try a start cycle and see if it repeats?
I appreciate all the help!

 

[Mogman]

You might want to pull the engine through two revolutions clockwise facing the front of the engine just to make sure it will not hydro, cheap insurance.

 

[Rdr Bama]

Did this truck come from Mobile? All those trucks came from Red River and have been sitting for a very long time probably 5 years or more....
Are there many parts missing and heavily cannibalized? If so, there is your answer on the motor and why it was turned in......

Yes it's a Mobile truck. It's not missing any parts that I've seen, but looks like they replaced the generator in 2015, newer start switch, and the light switch was replaced.
May be a good or bad sign.

 

[Rdr Bama]

You might want to pull the engine through two revolutions clockwise facing the front of the engine just to make sure it will not hydro, cheap insurance.

Well, not so good news. Started turning the engine with a pry bar on the flex plate, and it was moving pretty easy. Half way through a revolution it stops dead.
Took the glow plugs out, belt is off, rolled it back a few degrees.
Tried again, and it rolled a little further but another dead stop.
Thoughts anyone?

 

[Mogman]

About the only thing you can do now is put some M-M oil in the glow plug holes, and wait for a while, put the glow plugs back in finger loose so no critters get in there while waiting.

 

[Rdr Bama]

Following a couple of suggestions above, removed glow plugs and put MM oil in holes.
Did this twice over the last few days. Engine turning by hand is getting easier.
A few days ago, i tried the starter and water shot out of the driver side gp holes. It only spun the engine 90 degrees before it slipped and was grinding. I know I have starter and/or flexplate issues.
Today, I could hand turn engine fairly easy, but water shot out of the driver side gp holes again.
I'm thinking water coming in from the head/valve cover gaskets. I've got some ideas, but before I start off on a wild goose chase, Any ideas or suggestions?
Also welcome to any other observations and comments.
As always, Thanks!

 

[87cr250r]

Water shooting out? Engine is dead. You don't get a lot of time from when a cylinder fills with water before you must have the engine running again to prevent corrosion from causing irreparable damage.

Pull the heads ASAP for the best chance of saving the engine if you can't start it.

 

[MarkM]

Water shooting out? Engine is dead. You don't get a lot of time from when a cylinder fills with water before you must have the engine running again to prevent corrosion from causing irreparable damage.

Pull the heads ASAP for the best chance of saving the engine if you can't start it.

Yeah, it's not a good sign the cylinder is rapidly filling with coolant. You must pull that head /heads to find out what's going on. If water in the cylinder is let to stand it does some real damage over time. If the engine was liquid locked and rotated the engine is gone. The prognosis is not good.

Mark

 

[Mullaney]

Following a couple of suggestions above, removed glow plugs and put MM oil in holes.
Did this twice over the last few days. Engine turning by hand is getting easier.
A few days ago, i tried the starter and water shot out of the driver side gp holes. It only spun the engine 90 degrees before it slipped and was grinding. I know I have starter and/or flexplate issues.
Today, I could hand turn engine fairly easy, but water shot out of the driver side gp holes again.
I'm thinking water coming in from the head/valve cover gaskets. I've got some ideas, but before I start off on a wild goose chase, Any ideas or suggestions?
Also welcome to any other observations and comments.
As always, Thanks!

.
Story Time with Tim

So our shop is next door to a single engine firehouse. They were here back in the early 1900's and when we moved in in 1968 - as a kid I spent a lot of time next door. I learned a lot about fire trucks and how they responded to alarms. Got to enjoy sitting in the TV Room just off the Engine Room and watched the guys jump into action and roar out the door to an alarm.

So, to tie this into your situation, in the early 80's this engine company got a new HOWE cabover. Every morning for as long as I knew about at 8:00 am the truck was cranked and pulled out on the apron for the morning runup and fluids check by the Engineer. One morning, starter clicked and then nothing. Immediately a radio call was made to say that the truck was out of service. Mechanics swooped in with mobile service equipment. Didn't find the problem in the Engine House and the truck hauled off with a wrecker. Replacement Engine was delivered and things were back to normal.

Assorted things had happened in the repair facility and seemingly with nothing done, the problem solved itself. Truck was returned to service and for weeks it functioned perfectly. A middle of the night call brought everyone down the stairs and into the truck. Engineer hits the go switch and a grunt sound happens - then nothing. Switch off, Switch on and another grunt sound and she roars to life and off down the road they go. Report filed but the Engine company was still in service. Inspection by mechanics. This goes on for months - sometimes with months of no problem...

Finally one day the power plant wouldn't go again and this time the engine was pulled down for an in-frame inspection. In this case it was a diesel with sleeved cylendars (not like the HMMWV) and one of those sleeves had a pin hole through and into the water jacket. Removed and replaced that one liner and the problem was resolved until that Engine Company was retired.

WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN LEARNED was that occasionally coolant - blackened with soot - might have been found on the floor in the back of the Engine House from the exhaust pipe. Coolant might have been found on the apron in front of the Engine House door (but the door is closed with the driver in the truck most days). The guys wouldn't have seen the small puddle as a problem. Just wipe it up and move on... Only ounces lost in the radiator inspection most days.

In your situation, there is either a crack in some cast iron or a broken gasket is involved. Like @87cr250r and @MarkM suggested, it is time to drain the radiator and start disassembling that motor. Sooner rather than later.
.

 

[87cr250r]

I just had a Cat 3516 with an intermittent no start. We noticed a hard spot while cranking. Identified cylinder 16 as being at TDC during hard spot. Pulled the injector and found a rolled o-ring. Cat wanted to replace all injectors at $1500 a pieced plus labor.

 

[Rdr Bama]

So I've been working on this a little bit at a time over the past couple of weeks. I'm stubborn and see other posts where guys had seized engines and water on the cylinders and able to bring them back to life.
I've narrowed down some of the water in the cylinders to rain water leaking in.

Going with the advice above and from local guys, pulling the heads seems to be next.

I'm thinking pulling the engine, to get a real good look at things.
Will a regular engine hoist work, or an overhead rig work better?
Just curious both removing and putting back.