• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

HMMWV Control Box issue - temperature affects starter engaging

peggrw

Member
26
58
13
Location
West Virginia
Have an unusual “NARTRON CONTROL REMOTE SWITCH” (control box) issue on a 1993 M1097 HMMWV. The control box will not engage the starter motor unless the internals of the control box are above 70 degrees Fahrenheit or so. This is independent of the ambient temperature or engine temp. Everything else seems to work just fine. I can easily solve this problem by replacing the control box ($900+), or even bypass the control box to energize the starter motor but would prefer not to spend money I could use for other priorities, or in bypassing the “motor running” check for the starter.

Have only had the HMMWV for a couple months. It worked great in September but as the ambient temperature dropped this Fall I found that the starter would only engage on warm days. Tracked it down to the control box. The box always goes through the normal glow plug routine perfectly, does a few brief afterglow cycles and works with the TSU to completely disable the glow plugs once the engine reaches temperature. All seems normal and that process is not affected by the outside temp. But the control box itself will not send voltage to the starter motor unless the box internals are above 70F. I have the bottom of the control box off and can precisely direct heat toward the solenoids and wiring with a heat gun set on low. Just enough to get the parts about 80F or so. Once up to temp the starter kicks over great.

The control box schematics are not available anywhere, and other than the exposed solenoids, the circuit board is encased in black epoxy and cannot be reverse engineered. I will loosen and tighten all of the solenoid and ground plane nuts just in case thermal expansion is causing a bad connection but I can’t think of what else to do. Can’t imagine it is a sticky solenoid since tapping each with a light hammer does not help. Easily started the HMMWV after warming the box this morning with an outside temperature of 19F.

NARTRON Box.jpg
 

TOBASH

Father, Surgeon, Cantankerous Grouch
Steel Soldiers Supporter
Supporting Vendor
3,579
3,488
113
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Time to rebuild your box.

I am happy to walk you through the process.

Welcome to Steel Soldiers.

 
Last edited:

MarkM

CODE BROWN...It's all going to sh~t !
Steel Soldiers Supporter
1,081
1,972
113
Location
WOBURN. MA.
I've started my truck at 10 degrees F and it starts fine. If I would be starting her much lower I would get a block heater. Below are the type of units I would routinely use for cold winters in NH. So easy to install


Mark

shopping (3).jpeg
 

peggrw

Member
26
58
13
Location
West Virginia
Will your trucks start in cold temps without a block heater?
Not sure whether you were asking related to the Camo box or not, but the type of box shouldn't matter. GP heat from any box is the same, just depends whether it's done automatically or how long you press the button on the Camo box to energize the plugs. If you were asking a general question about block heaters... My HMMWV with a standard box started quickly albeit slightly rough at 9F yesterday morning without a block heater. Probably took 4-5 seconds after initial firing for all the cylinders to smooth out.
 

peggrw

Member
26
58
13
Location
West Virginia
I managed to get my box to start working at all temps through some rerouting and tightening of internal wires, though I'm still chasing the starter wire gremlin. Is a problem only 5% of time now. The starter fails to engage so infrequently that I had to put a connector on the internal starter solenoid to see if it is always providing the start signal, or if the problem is a connection inside the engine side Bendix connector. Depending on what I find I'll either fix the issue internal to the box, completely bypass the starter function, or depending on my mood, throw my hands in the air and replace the box. I can't just rewire my box bypassing all functions as has been suggested because the internal Bendix connectors are completely sealed in epoxy and are not serviceable or reusable.
 

Mogman

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Steel Soldiers Supporter
6,930
9,587
113
Location
Papalote, TX
I managed to get my box to start working at all temps through some rerouting and tightening of internal wires, though I'm still chasing the starter wire gremlin. Is a problem only 5% of time now. The starter fails to engage so infrequently that I had to put a connector on the internal starter solenoid to see if it is always providing the start signal, or if the problem is a connection inside the engine side Bendix connector. Depending on what I find I'll either fix the issue internal to the box, completely bypass the starter function, or depending on my mood, throw my hands in the air and replace the box. I can't just rewire my box bypassing all functions as has been suggested because the internal Bendix connectors are completely sealed in epoxy and are not serviceable or reusable.
Do you have new batteries? battery voltage will affect the function you describe.
 

peggrw

Member
26
58
13
Location
West Virginia
Do you have new batteries? battery voltage will affect the function you describe.
Thanks. If the starter signal makes it out of the control box engine side connector the starter itself acts like the batteries are brand new. But I know that one of the batteries has a marginal load issue. Not enough to notice when starting but is measurable. I racked my brain and originally thought it would be incredibly stupid to design a control box that wouldn't function with a slight voltage drop but then the entire design is marginal. So last week I ordered two brand new batteries. One is lost in the FedEx system. Will let you know.
 

peggrw

Member
26
58
13
Location
West Virginia
Thanks. If the starter signal makes it out of the control box engine side connector the starter itself acts like the batteries are brand new. But I know that one of the batteries has a marginal load issue. Not enough to notice when starting but is measurable. I racked my brain and originally thought it would be incredibly stupid to design a control box that wouldn't function with a slight voltage drop but then the entire design is marginal. So last week I ordered two brand new batteries. One is lost in the FedEx system. Will let you know.
Nope. New batteries didn't work.
 

peggrw

Member
26
58
13
Location
West Virginia
The start solenoid inside the box is not putting out the start signal to the engine connector. Was going to put in a test connector to see if the solenoid was being energized and to be sure the start signal from the dash switch was getting through the dash connector but then I found if I pushed on a particular wire bundle inside the box the starter would occasionally engage. Gremlins. Since the problem is so intermittent I gave up and directly connected the start signal from the dash compartment connector to the engine connector inside the smart box, bypassing the starter logic. Works fine, but my electrical engineering degree says that I should have just fixed the damn box.

Hopefully problem solved.
 
Top