HMMWV Export Question

[undysworld]

I wasn't able to find an answer by searching, so here goes...

Does anyone here know whether a HMMWV can be exported legally?

The vehicle in question was sold without an EUC and with a clear SF-97.

It currently has a clear, unbranded Wisconsin title.

A buyer in Germany wants to purchase the truck and export it to Germany.

Any advice is welcomed. Thanks.

 

[riderdan]

To definitively answer the question, you need to look at the International Traffic in Arms Regulation (ITAR) and see if the truck falls under its provisions. The problem is, from my understanding the ITAR is a vast, steaming pile of bureaucratic gobbledygook and wading through it is a nightmare. I was curious about selling a different, possibly USML item to a foreign buyer and wasn't able to access the ITAR online. In the end I decided it was too much trouble to sort out... and the danger of having the full might of the feds lawyers on my back wasn't worth it. They seem to take ITAR violations as a personal affront.

Sorry I can be more help. But if you want to be 100% sure, you'd have to hire a lawyer and dig through the ITAR.

 

[TOBASH]

I would avoid that sale.

I would avoid all international sales.

You are risking a World of hurt. The Federal Government is a sleeping tiger that should not be woken up.

 

[simp5782]

You can export them with out any problem as long as the truck has a title and meets the safety requirements of the country it is going to. It is no different than exporting 5 tons and LMTV trucks. You need to find an export broker like Livingston International. It isn't an easy process. Can be nerve racking. Especially trying to get the shipping arranged. Unless you let him deal with it.

You may check with some of the surplus companies that do export frequently and just pay them to handle the paperwork side of it .

 

[Skrilex]

You can export them with out any problem as long as the truck has a title and meets the safety requirements of the country it is going to. It is no different than exporting 5 tons and LMTV trucks. You need to find an export broker like Livingston International. It isn't an easy process. Can be nerve racking. Especially trying to get the shipping arranged. Unless you let him deal with it.

You may check with some of the surplus companies that do export frequently and just pay them to handle the paperwork side of it .

Well my papaerwork expressly forbids me from even taking the hmmwv to Canada for vacation, can’t sell out of country or to a non us citizen. Maybe that is only relative to EUC but that was clearly written and seemed to apply to all hmmwv.

 

[tage]

Sold w/o euc? Maybe to the second buyer, but whoever bought that truck at auction filled one out.
Sf97 not in your name is a headache. Just get a title only and export. But if it ends up in Turkey then Syria. You're boned. Think of that plumbing truck.

 

[porkysplace]

Sold w/o euc? Maybe to the second buyer, but whoever bought that truck at auction filled one out.
Sf97 not in your name is a headache. Just get a title only and export. But if it ends up in Turkey then Syria. You're boned. Think of that plumbing truck.

Probably from the 1999 sale , pre EUC.

 

[rchalmers3]

From the information you have provided, yes, you can export the vehicle to Germany.

My recommendation:

1st: Figure out what port you want to export from, (I use Wilmington Delaware) or another main port with connection to the specific destination port
2nd: Look online for the port authority website of your chosen port
3rd: Find the liner companies that make scheduled transports to and from that port, and then
4th: Call one of them to have a conversation about the process, costs and timeline
5th: Call the other liner services and have the same conversation!

Important: Most liner companies have in-house export documentation services available for a modest additional fee.

After a few hours of research, you will find that exporting is not all that difficult and that there are loads of these vehicles leaving our shores daily!

Regards,
Rick

 

[Hummermark]

Hi can not vouch for German but have not come across any military vehicle that is civilian owned in the USA that I could not export to the uk.
i get a export license from the us government for all my us exports have shipped 1941 through to 1980s armour Gpw to m1070s.
i even got a ok from the us government in writing to buy a m113 from a military dealer that could not normally sell to civilians took a year but that was not through problems that was the speed they took!
i use International military logistics (uk based) to ship my stuff,export license per shipment is $640
have exported around 25 humvees from the Atlanta usmc Humvee auction onwards and two of the new m1113 from the ba systems sale in New York State.
it does show that there appears to be unfounded worries and misunderstanding when I see adds on e Bay for Humvees that say us sales only as can not be exported !

 

[TOBASH]

I think as an American, knowing these vehicles are sold to the American public with the caveat that they are not for export, we are understandably cautious.

I think export is best left to people like Hummermark in the UK, who are not bound to these regulations.

Maybe it is legal... Maybe not. I see no reason to push the envelope on this issue when there are people like Hummermark who might be able to fill this niche.

In general, if I need to ask if an activity is legal, I need to avoid that activity.

MHO

 

[simp5782]

I think as an American, knowing these vehicles are sold to the American public with the caveat that they are not for export, we are understandably cautious.

I think export is best left to people like Hummermark in the UK, who are not bound to these regulations.

Maybe it is legal... Maybe not. I see no reason to push the envelope on this issue when there are people like Hummermark who might be able to fill this niche.

In general, if I need to ask if an activity is legal, I need to avoid that activity.

MHO

The same thing was said on hmmwvs being sold to the public and look what happened there

 

[undysworld]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

To clarify, the truck was sold without an EUC, to a very regular bulk purchaser of govt. equip. The current owner got it from that guy.

The current owner has obtained a clear, unrestricted, unbranded Wis. title. He also has copies of the SF-97 and all other paperwork from the govt. sale forward.

Sounds like export should be possible, and that the buyer might want to contract with a company that specializes in the process.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[AAVP7]

I didn´t do an export to Germany myself so far, but I heard from several germans who did. Even if you bought that truck without an EUC, it still falls under ITAR, so trying to export it without an export permit might get you into some serious trouble.

Getting an export permit doesn´t seem to be that difficult, however, if you use one of the surplus dealers who have an export license. They will charge for their work, but they know what do do, and have all the contacts in the buerocracy. My trucks were all exported by Owensexport, but there are others. I think there even was a list on this board some years ago.

The german end of the export is pretty easy, as long as customs get their taxes and duties. You won´t be able to import an armoured ECV-style truck due to german "weapons-of-war" armor laws, but an old-style A0 or even A2 shouldn´t be aproblem.

 

[owensexport]

I can help you, email me for more information steve at militaryjeep.com

Thanks for all the advice guys.
To clarify, the truck was sold without an EUC, to a very regular bulk purchaser of govt. equip. The current owner got it from that guy.
The current owner has obtained a clear, unrestricted, unbranded Wis. title. He also has copies of the SF-97 and all other paperwork from the govt. sale forward.
Sounds like export should be possible, and that the buyer might want to contract with a company that specializes in the process.
Thanks again for the input.

 

[patracy]

To clarify, the truck was sold without an EUC, to a very regular bulk purchaser of govt. equip. The current owner got it from that guy.
The current owner has obtained a clear, unrestricted, unbranded Wis. title. He also has copies of the SF-97 and all other paperwork from the govt. sale forward.

Even if you bought that truck without an EUC, it still falls under ITAR, so trying to export it without an export permit might get you into some serious trouble.

It's not so much how something is purchased, but what the DDTC lists the commodity as. HMMWVs certainly fall under ITAR. Just verifying the later statement. I have to deal with ITAR in my small business.

 

[AMC]

Even though it was sold without an EUC the federal regulations of Export Controls still apply to the HMMWV. Some people seem to think that a DEMIL HMMWV is just like a jeep or truck and can be taken anywhere without an export license. That's a huge mistake. I believe the HMMWVs that are sold to the public fall under the Export Administration Regulations as Commerce Control List Item under ECCN 0A606. I'd contact BIS at commerce to confirm that classification if you are really wanting to export. It's not super hard to get the export license if you have all of the proper information and aren't taking it to an embargoed area.

** From my conversations with DLA, I also believe DLA considers DEMIL HMMWVs an CCLI Commodity under the ECCN listed above. I could be wrong, but that is what I have found from my research and conversations with DLA and DoD.

 

[aleigh]

Funny enough this also means, strictly speaking, my understanding is you can't temporarily take one into Canada or resell/transfer/loan one to a non-national in-country (without approval). The FMTVs are like this too, although I think it escapes a lot of people's notice, especially those people purportedly buying them for globe-trotting expedition trucks...

 

[AMC]

That is correct, even a temporary trip to canada is considered an export. The selling to a foreign national in country is a bit tricky as there are a ton of variables. If the foreigner expresses he is going to export it after you sell to him, you will probably need the export license.It also depends on who has jurisdiction of the controlled item. I.E. ITAR or EAR.

 

[Pop Alexandra]

I contacted W2C brokers for a similar issue and they were able to give me an 1 month licence/pass.

 

[HmmwvTim]

So I looked up this question for different reasons. As the prime owner of the hmmwv i feel that if the party that sells it to a foreign entity down the road may be tied back to me. On the EUC, i stated that i was building this for a hobby but can be sold when I dont need it anymore. I checked the purchase for resale box on the euc. In the notes i stated, if it gets sold, i have no control of if the next owners will sell it to a foreign entity. I only have control of it if it is in my possession. I guess that was good enough because it was granted quickly.
Will I be responsible if future sellers decide to sell it to a hostile foreign entity?

I saw that youtube of a truck that was sold to a terrorist group while still posting the american company name and address on it. Got me wondering about this.