HMMWV impounded

[m16ty]

What "agreement"?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?138670-HMMWV-Titling

 

[RustyM923]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?138670-HMMWV-Titling

The GP hold harmless agreement is what everyone is hanging their hat on, correct?

 

[CARNAC]

Thankfully property accountability is usually a much more formal process than just wandering around checking to make sure everything is still there. Army commanders and property holders are required to check on their property at regular intervals. Must have been one jacked-up unit to not know they turned in a HMMWV then report it stolen- and forget about it and just go on thinking it was stolen!

We'll probably never know the whole story. It's probably an entertaining story of incompetence and incredible lack of discipline.

Actually happens more than you think. It is a much bigger problem in the reserve side. The AMSA folks are notorious for taking equipment for service without telling the unit especially when you have multiple units in a motorpool. The equipment in ECS is at the mercy of the management. Some are really good at keeping units informed, some are horrendous. The equipment may get sent to the USAR SETS sites for turn in without informing the unit. Sounds incredible for AC folks but it is much more common than you think on the USAR side.

Some equipment was found by going through the cache on google and using the nsn or general description (ie trailer) and the registration number or the serial number. Helped out more than just a few overly distraught PBO's in that way.

Keep in mind that not all units have supply and/or maintenance personnel there full time (many cases these days no full time support). The equipment is lucky to get inventoried annually simply because of budget constraints. Commanders, supply sergeants, maintenance sergeants and PBOs are all hamstrung in travel budgets. Units on the east coast were directed to loan equipment to Ft Hunter Liggett years ago. Some of that was never physically seen by the unit. In cases there have been underlaps in PBO's by nearly a year and the interim (reservist) is usually not trained, not a logistics type, is not funded to perform ANY inventories and doesn't know an M16A2 from a SINCGARS. And circling over all this, the puzzle palace leadership just didn't seem to care.

 

[tim292stro]

In CA even if you don't plan to run a road truck on-road, you need to register as an off highway vehicle. This requiress the same vin verification, titling, and tax process that an on-road vehicle does. This was my initial ammusment with the no sf-97 deal from GovPlanet - they should have known that the only place you can keep an unregistered/untitled vehicle in CA is in a junkyard...

Hope the OP gets it worked out - I think GovPlanet could be put on the hook for this if this was from them. As a dealer, they essentially sold a stolen vehicle - which their computer should have caught. Go after them aggressively once and they'll change their process.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

In CA even if you don't plan to run a road truck on-road, you need to register as an off highway vehicle. This requiress the same vin verification, titling, and tax process that an on-road vehicle does. This was my initial ammusment with the no sf-97 deal from GovPlanet - they should have known that the only place you can keep an unregistered/untitled vehicle in CA is in a junkyard...

Hope the OP gets it worked out - I think GovPlanet could be put on the hook for this if this was from them. As a dealer, they essentially sold a stolen vehicle - which their computer should have caught. Go after them aggressively once and they'll change their process.

GP had no idea....a fort Irwin unit misplaced the truck at some point and during a turn in it was discovered they didn't have a specific SN'd truck...reported it stolen after going through a search of units and motor pools etc...lots and lots of unit rotate in and out of Fort Irwin, could have driven off, trucked off...or most likely was parked and never ID'd.
either way, truck was found and it was never reported to LEO, or was and fell through the cracks.
I have seen the same thing happen to vehicles from Lien sales and Junk yard sales....it's supposed to be clear, but sometimes it aint.

 

[tim292stro]

But here it sounds like CHP ran the truck through NCIC and it did come back as stolen. If the OP shows up with a paid bill of sale from a dealer, worst CHP can do is impound - then it's up to the state or county to go after the dealer, with the purchaser holding the receipt acting as a material witness for the state. The dealer has a responsibility to do due diligence to ensure the vehicle is eligible for sale as represented on their website. "Stolen" is not eligible. I've only heard the defense of "good faith" working when there was a good forgery of VIN and there was no obvious reason to be suspicious of the VIN they ran (but they still need to do that part).

Again, I hope the OP gets this worked out - with the failure of GP, the least they can expect is a full refund, but hopefully GP will talk to the state and DoD and get this cleared up so that the OP can get their truck. I also hope that GP makes it so the OP doesn't pay any storage fees - this is GP's fault it got to this point, mistakes of DoD paperwork need to be resolved before the vehicle can be let go from the motorpool into "general population".

The system set up for civilians is way more strict than what DoD has - after all, the tax man hates to be cheated.

 

[rhurey]

Is GP a dealer in the state of CA?

 

[tim292stro]

They have this weird thing where they are headquartered and run the business, website, and call center in Pleasanton, CA - but they are a Florida licensed dealer.

 

[rhurey]

Yeah, but based on all the hoopla Tesla went through, I'd assumed a separate license was required in each state.

Can't be that important I guess. WA has all the process to get the license online, but no way to search for who has one.

 

[RDUKW]

So you tried to get a road title and got hit by the man. Good job on violating your agreement with the government and GP

You may want to do your reaserch before you open your trap. It was being titled only not registered, so you can go insert your foot now.

 

[tim292stro]

You may want to do your research before you open your trap. It was being titled only not registered, so you can go insert your foot now.

This is what I am a bit concerned about on this site where one theme (skirting the off-road restriction) can smother the other topics - i.e. pre-GP release trucks that new owners have to deal with legally, or state-to-state differences that actually do require the SF-97 so you can get the paperwork to prove ownership, on or off-road.

Yeah, but based on all the hoopla Tesla went through, I'd assumed a separate license was required in each state...

Read my signature/disclaimer before this section...
Telsa is a different case, they want showrooms/sales-locations in each state, and they don't want dealer groups (what I will call "slimy sharks" on Tesla's behalf, as they would probably never do so) to take a piece of the pie and set the rules and up-sell, up-sell, up-sell - making it harder to sell the cars in a petrol-centric market. Telsa likely doesn't want anyone but Tesla touching their cars so they can control the experience (kind of like Apple's model).

GP/IP whatever you call them, just needs one dealer location to push paper through a legal process, and as long as the paperwork is clean and tidy, it's not an issue - this may be GP's first rodeo wit a "stolen vehicle" that DRMO legally released to them. As I said earlier, I hope the OP pushes for this to get cleared up by GP, and GP makes it right - Pleasanton is 15 minutes over the hill from me, I would be in their office shaking my fist.

 

[bchauvette]

Hey sarge I can't find my vehicle and I'm too hung over to go look. That's OK private just report it stolen.

 

[tage]

Is GP a dealer in the state of CA?

You pay sales tax when you pick it up, and not your state's sales tax either... Which I have bought allot of vehicles out of state, and that never happens.

 

[fnpurist]

I had to pay sales tax also and my hmmwv is in another state. What's the deal with this?

 

[Recovry4x4]

This usually occurs when a unit or vehicle has been reported stolen and either self recovered or towed as abandoned and the towing/impound folks forget to run the VIN. On the civilian side, a police involved recovery has quite a few checks and balances to make sure the car is removed from NCIC.

 

[tage]

Nexus... But vehicle dealers are more gray. You're supposed to pay taxes when you register the vehicle at your state DMV. Not at point of sale. But seeing as these were sold effectively on Bill of sales, but now with sf97...

 

[Gunzy]

GP is playing games on the Tax collection issue. Taxes should be paid by purchaser in the state it is to be titled(rather on or off road) and not to the state of sale/pick up. I have bought many out of state and NEVER paid sales taxes until I registered/titled it in my state of residence. This activity is questionable at best. Now when I buy in my state the should recover sales tax and ONLY then. JMO

 

[Jwade]

They have this weird thing where they are headquartered and run the business, website, and call center in Pleasanton, CA - but they are a Florida licensed dealer.

Headquartered in CA yes, the only thing you will find there is marketing, IT, AP, AR. The operations and call center for GP are based in Fort Worth.

 

[Csm Davis]

Okay back to said stolen vehicle it will be the DOD that has to clear this up and is responsible for delivering a "stolen" vehicle to GP. This just loosing a vehicle may or may not have been what happened, there are many ways in service that a unit can steal a piece of equipment from a different unit and not get caught. Also know of a unit that or two that are authorized to take whatever they need and don't have. So it may have been stolen and then turned into DRMO and slipped out. Just a heads up to any of our service members who help keep up with this type stuff it is about to get a lot tighter. I am honestly surprised this hasn't happened more.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

And I have a black helicopter fying over my house...Jeeze folks. Now we are on GP taxation, do your homework...GL has done this for years, ANY business operating in the state of Calif selling tangible property MUST pay sales tax...I'm a business owner, I even have to charge sales tax on items I sell in the shop.
I find it funny how some of these GP bashers come out of the woodwork just saying stupid crap like, I hope they make this right, They should get a full refund....it will all get worked out, but in the end it's all about expectation, if you expect that your going to get a full refund and keep the truck once it's cleared up, I would say you are going to be on this forum complaining about GP in short order. While this is a one off for GP, I msure they are as surprised as the Buyer.
I am sure they followed all the proper protocol that they are required to follow for this and the 1000's of other rolling stock they have sold!....so till its done, let's give them the benefit of the doubt.