HOL-GAR CE-106-AC/WK 9 EP Genset

[daleridge]

I have copies of TM 5-6115-269-10 Operators Manual April 1961 and TM 5-6115-269-20 Organizational Maintenance Manual October 1961 and they appear to be correct for my machine. I also have TM 5-6115-269-20 C3 which adds info on the Engine Generator Regulator. I have a couple of pages form TM 940A figure 25 and figure 72 which show remote start wiring and external remote start equipment control box and engine wiring but I am not sure where they came from. I don't have a -35P.

I am excited to learn you have a source for the fuel pump kit. I have not removed the pump and I am not sure who manufactured it or what model it is. I though that NAPA or someone could help but I didn't expect to be able to rebuild it. That is great news. I will place an order immediately as soon as I identify the source.

I would love to see some photos of the pickup tubes and aux fuel accesories.
How about a really bad quality mpg video of my unit running.

 

[jonesal]

I'm still looking for the vendor's name, sorry it's taking so long. How many pages is the -20 C3 manual? I am having trouble with the regulator and the regular -20 manual has the wrong one in it. I would love to get my hands on that section. I have only scanned about 10 pages from the -35 manual. I thought there were several of them still out on the net, if you wanted one.

Great video! My turn.

Thanks!

Allen

 

[daleridge]

C3 has 21 pages but 13-21 is Army nonsense on which level of maintenance does what work. I have scanned 1-12 into a PDF which I hope will help you. The copy I have is a xerox from long ago and the quality of the photos is marginal and what you see is as good as it gets. I also have C1 which is an electrical device locater and legend. About the same as I sent earlier. I could scan my whole -20 but that is about 80 pages and would take awhile. It is a xerox also. You probably have a better copy.
Bill

 

[jonesal]

OK, the vendors name is "Then and Now". If your fuel pump is stock, it will be a Delco. On the base that mounts to the engine, will be a number that is stamped. That is the model number and they will need that to send you the right kit. Here is their URL: Fuel Pump Rebuilding Kits - Then And Now Automotive. They were great to deal with but will insist on that number.

Here are the photos of the pickup assembly in pieces and assembled. All that is missing from the photo is a piece of fuel line with the flared ends. It fits into a Jerry can with one of the pipes connected and with both pipes connected, it fits a 55 gallons drum. It is very handy to have. The TMs call for storing the genset empty so I'm using the fuel pickup with Jerry cans and will only use the tank if I have to.

 

[jonesal]

And here's a video.

 

[jonesal]

One last comment. Your C3 TM is setup for the "standard" 25 amp dc generators and regulators. My genset (and another guy's I've been emailing) is the 19 amp model. The 19 amp model is a two wire from the dc generator (verses the 3 wire for 25 amp) and it's 1 wire to the battery (verses 2 out wires for the 25 amp). What is your genset? Nineteen amp or 25 amp? I posted a message on SS awhile back asking for any info/TMs/etc. on the 19 amps models and all I heard were crickets in the distance. So thanks for posting but it does help a bit.

Thanks,
Allen

 

[daleridge]

Well I can't see the wiring easily but by looking in a mirror upside down and backwards I can see the motor generator tag:

Rating 18A at 1750-4000
Type 1 Class B Grade 2 Group C
612 604A MS13823 6HS6002AT
AUTOLITE

Some of this may be incorrect since G and 6 look a lot alike in a mirror. So do 2 and S. However it appears to be the same size and shape as yours in the photo's and video.

I really enjoyed the video and it is much better quality than mine.

Thanks for the fuel pump info. I will remove the old pump today or tomorrow to read the ID and place an order. The leak gets worse by the minute and is so bad now that I have a dangerous fuel spray coming out of the vent hole. I can't take the risk of running it anymore until I get the diapharam replaced.

How do you find these sources of parts. You must spend a lot of time on the internet.

The gas tank seems to be in good shape now since I removed it for cleaning and leak repair (soldering). The zinc chromate primer I put on it makes everything else look cruddy now. Some of the fuel lines were completely plugged with rust and mud. How it ever ran I don't know. It starts easily now - almost as well as yours did in the video.

The fuel pickup is neat and very simple. How were you lucly enough to every find it much less recognize it for what it was? I would think a flexible line between the pickup and the gen aux connection would be in order. Is there anything one could put in the unit's gas tank to prevent internal corrosion? Most equipment manufacturers (and aircraft) recommend to keep the tank full to avoid condensation and water forming in the tank from repeated warming and cooling which causes the tank to breath in moisture over time. Of course this means you have stale gas if you don't run it often. What do you think.

Bill

 

[daleridge]

I forgot to answer an earlier question. The -20 has 72 pages plus an appendix of about 10-12 more pages. This is from Oct 1961 and covers S/N 1-2501. My unit is S/N 1413 and the documentation seems right for it. I have scanned the first 3-4 pages plus all the info from the chapter on electrical which has the motor generator and regulator info what there is of it. You will notice page 3 list the Electric Auto-Lite GHS 6002 AT 18 amp generator that I have. If you think it would help I can scan the complete manual.

I really hope this helps. You have been so much help to me I am trying to repay the favor.

I also notice that this says my fuel pump is an A.C. 9367. I'll have to verify that before I order the diaphragm.

Bill

 

[daleridge]

Pulled the fuel pump this AM and, wow, what a mess. It is full of trash, jelly, and that flakey coating left by gas after it evaporates. The diaphram wasn't torn but the material had lost its rubberization and apparently was passing the fuel through to the lower half. It might be torn under the operator disk where I could not see.

The flange says it is a 570 X and that agrees with the Airtex website info I found earlier for a Continental FS162 engine application. The current Airtex 570 doesn't look exactly like the old pump because the upper dome casting where the valves are located is much smaller. Maybe just an improvement but I worry. I have sent Then and Now photos and the numbers off the flange to find me a rebuild kit.

I found no mention of the AC9367 number that was in the -20 manual. I believe that Airtex must have taken over the mechanical pump manufacture from AC.

I have to wonder how the valves are retained or more to the point how do I remove and replace them. They don't appear to screw in. I guess there is a press in retainer. I will wait to see the kit so that I can understand the proper procedure.

Thanks for the help again.

 

[daleridge]

For those who need a fuel pump or other antique auto parts I post his dialogue with Then and Now Automotive.

Inquiry:
Please find attached photos of my fuel pump. Although the equipment list calls out a AC9367, the flange is stamped 570 X, and the inside of the dome beside the valves says FP48LA with a circled A on one side and FP483 on the other. I am sending these photos and this information for identification. I need a rebuild kit and a little advice on how to remove and install the valves.

Answer:
We can provide you with a kit to rebuild this pump ,the cost is $ 37.50 plus shipping . Please refer to kit # FPA75A when ordering. Or we could offer you a rebuilding service for $85.00 plus shipping .

Thank you
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lisa Pawlik
Then And Now Automotive
447 Washington St.
Weymouth, Ma. 02188
781-335-8860[/FONT]





[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

 

[jonesal]

To answer your questions, I spend as little time as I can on the internet (I would rather do work than surf). I have been doing civilian and military restorations for almost 30 years so you get an idea of where the "go to" places are. Then and Now is one of them. The "sucking" fuel pickup (verses the gravity one) is very hard to find so I actually bought several from the guy when I found them. Search for (fuel,"pick up","jerry can") and you will eventually find one. It took me 18 months of searching! The best thing to put in the fuel tank to prevent corrosion is nothing. As I mentioned before, the TMs say to store it empty as well. That's why I got the fuel pickups. I keep a couple of Jerry cans of gas handy and use those instead of the internal fuel tank. Plus the internal fuel tank is about 5 gallons and will last, what?, maybe 4 hours at full load? So an external source is almost a requirement for serious use. In the final analysis, that's why I keep the tank empty.

The valves in the fuel pump are staked into the pot metal housing. Sometimes you need to use a dremel to remove the stakes, sometimes a good razor knife will do the job. Be sure and replace the valves and be careful. A cracked housing results in a worthless fuel pump. Also pay attention to what direction they are installed. Put one in back wards and it's a headache to remove and replace without damaging. The new ones should also be staked into place. A small roll pin punch (a punch with a flat end, NOT a sharpened end) will work fine. They also provide the trash screen in the kit. Notice that although not in the TMs, removal of the bell and cleaning the screen should be part of scheduled maintenance, as you've experienced. My fuel pump was also plugged with crap. The fuel system sure takes abuse when not regularly used.

I'm glad Then and Now still makes the kits. Keep your old parts as someday, they will not be making the kits and you can make your own diaphragm and gaskets if you need to. The great thing about this genset is that you can make or substitute a lot of parts if "battle over-ride" is needed. The new(er) MEPs would be really hard to do that on given the parts or so specialized. Keep your genset forever!

Have fun!

Allen

 

[daleridge]

I'm now the proud owner of a jerry can fuel pickup tube adapter and as they say "It's in the mail". The problem is that it is tax day and money is the topic of conversation around here. If my wife finds out I have spent another $100 on this boat anchor (just bought the fuel pump kit), I'm going to do KP for the rest of the year.

Now I need to figure out a proper setup for the tubing to connect to the aux fuel connection. Aeroquip braided hose would be nice but just doesn't seem right. Maybe just a fuel resistant synthetic rubber hose like SUPER FLEX FUEL LINE HOSE 1/4" with Aeroquip fititngs would do. I have a bushel of the fittings. Not important I quess but I'm just trying to keep Allen in sight.

And I will need a jerry can or two. You old war horses have them laying around everywhere but I have just caught this bug. I think the new plastic ones (Spectra?)are probably better but I am not sure the old pickup tube adapter will work or maybe I like the sound of steel. Guess I'll wait till I get a look at the adapter before I think about cans.

God knows if I can have this much fun with a piece of aux equipment how much fun I could have with something roadworthy.

 

[Rockcrusher]

where do you get parts i have a detroit powered one a 30kw unit that some one hooked all 3 hot legs an ground together one nite to power a lazer show an was told it made a very loud k boom an a mushroom cloud erupted

 

[jonesal]

Bill,

You'll find the pickup tubes are brass so a steel can will be fine. My grav setup is steel and it always makes me nervous setting it up. I don't think the old pickup fits a Spectra, but I don't bother with that new junk anyway... You tell us if it fits if you go that route.

As far as the pickup goes, use standard fuel flare fittings (female) on your choice of fuel line (I just used regular "rubber"-ish fuel line that I store in the internal tool box). I used 8 or so feet so the tank doesn't have to sit right next to the genset. I think the -35 TM said it was 15 feet long. Need to check. Note that with a full internal tank of gas and the external setup, you could theoretically run the genset continuously until maintenance was needed (200 hours? 400 hours?). Now that's amazing to think about (we don't talk about breakdowns...).

With EP (emergency power), that genset will be worth it's weight in gold the first time you lose power for more than a few hours. For me, it's worth the wait until we get an ice storm that takes out the power for two weeks (its happened). You and I will be sitting comfortably in our homes and get to say all the "I told you so"s to the keeper of the checkbook...

Oh boy, don't talk about something with wheels. After I picked up the genset (and had it in litterally 100's of parts across the shop floor), I picked up a M35A2 from GL. Now that thing makes my wallet scream with all the fun I've been having. Don't say I never warned you! And the keeper of the checkbook will definiately need to hide it then...

Here are pics: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/34270-south-dakota-recovery.html
and http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/50707-winter-dress.html

It's great to hear you're hainvg fun too! This getset was a super fun project.

Take care,
Allen

PS Now you need the grounding rod kit for your genset to complete the accessories!!! http://www.steelsoldiers.com/auxillary-equipment/38832-ground-rod-kits.html Something to make your wallet scream some more!

 

[daleridge]

Success and completion

Thought I would post a few pics of the final result. I know it is not nearly the quality of Allen's (jonesal) restoration but it is about all I have the time and patience to do myself. The genset looks quite presentable now on a new concrete base next to the house. It now starts quickly and reliably every time and under all weather conditions. I have come to appreciate it's rugged construction despite it's overdesign and complications. It easily handles my all electric house including a 4 ton heat pump and all electric kitchen. Thanks to Allen for his help and to everyone else who offered kind advice and encouragement.

 

[jonesal]

Excellent! I agree, it's way overbuilt and has some idiosyncrasies, but it's a nice genset.

I'm glad to hear it works on a 4 ton heat pump. I recently started to mount my genset in an outbuilding and am anxiously waiting to see if it will handle my 5 ton heat pump. The surge draw is pretty harsh (geothermal heat pump). I've load tested ours, but not all the way.

Did you bolt your genset to the concrete pad? When I ran mine in the garage, it did not move at all from the vibration. Just curious. The concrete floor in the outbuilding is in pretty bad shape so I'm wondering how well I could get bolts set.

How did the inside turn out? Pics of it? Did you do any modifications?

 

[daleridge]

Mounting

No I did not bolt down the genset. I used the same technique we use on heavy industrial equipment to isolate the vibration and noise transmission through the foundation. You can find rubber isolation pucks (really synthetic elastomers) available from your local HVAC (I use Trane) dealers. They are available in various sizes and shapes. I used 8 each, 2X2X1 inch pucks under the skids. The unit stays put and does not move off the pucks. If I bolted it down the vibration would transmit thru the bolts. It has beem my experience that the gen set stays put even without the pucks. I have run it for hours on both a plywood floored trailer and on a temporary foundation of lanscape timbers without any sign of lateral movement. This baby is smooth and quite now.

I cleaned the inside with Varsol, replaced belts and hoses, replaced the batteries, removed cleaned , resealed, and painted the gas tank and some other removable panels but I did not do a total rebuild like you did Allen. I will save that for later if necessary.

 

[auwng]

Holgar CE-106-AC Regulator and relays

I have one of these gensets for about 15 years nowl, with less than 100 hours on it. Problem is, someone has removed the regulator, and control relays from it making it unuseable. The engine runs fine, but with out a source for the regulator and relay information it just has to sit. I have relays K3, 4,5,6 figured out as coil voltages, and pins, but the K2 seems to be a 24 volt unit with 3 coils, one normally closed set of contacts and oen normally open contact between 2 of the coils. Is there a source for parts, as I'd love to restore it .

 

[goddess4920]

Please help!!!

Please if anyone can help me to save the last of what nerves I have left... My dad purchased this Generator at a auction he has the field manual to it... But needs the Maintenance manuals for it... The Model # is CE106-AC/WK9.... The Manuals are... TM 5-6115-269-20 and TM 5-6115-269-20P.... Please of anyone can obtain the manual... I will pay for a copy of it... as well as shipping... I am about to pull my hair out he is driving me crazy... Thank you so much and have a blessed day!!!!

 

[jonesal]

By field manual, do you mean the -35? The -20 manuals will contain much less information. I found my manuals (-10, -20, -35, -35P, -ESC) on ePay and from a radio company in England. They still come up on ePay every so often. I have not been able to find a -20P. I'm not aware of any reproductions or pdf's available. If there are specific questions you have, you can post them here and we will try to help. Posting excepts is more practical than copying the entire manual - sorry.

Allen