Hot in Arizona

[getheated]

All jokes aside I just bought a 1970 deuce (with a gunners hatch) off a guy who made no mention of it running hot. The normally one hour drive home turned into an all day event with 5 near overheat conditions.

While I’m not familiar with these engines I can tell it’s misfiring for sure. I question that it’s had really any maintenance at all in the last 5 years as the oil seems thin as all hell too. I realize a misfire and thin oil can both lead to higher temps but the “custom” aluminum radiator with built in fan shroud, electric fan and missing mechanical fan all have me a bit twisted inside.

I flushed the radiator/coolant system with a hose today and got a lot more mud looking stuff out. It seemed to run a bit cooler but temp was still climbing at low speeds. I came back home after it passed 200. Sitting at idle it did start to slowly cool down (it was not able to do that on the trip home before).

Im just trying to find out if I got COMPLETELY and KNOWINGLY screwed… or if this is likely recoverable.

 

[NDT]

Suggest you verify the gauge temps with a thermal gun. If you are truly near boilover, look for clogged radiator tubes. No clue if your electric fan has enough CFM to do the job, suggest you get rid of it and go back to the very dependable mechanical fan.

 

[runk]

If you got mud looking crud out of it, flush from every possible hose connection in every possible direction, and do several cycles. Good time to replace all the hoses and check the thermostat.

 

[ToddJK]

Sounds like the coolant system is really dirty. Like another said, I would do a very, thorough flush on the engine and the radiator. The aftermarket radiator doesn't worry me, but the fact it had mud looking coolant come out and the electric fan that is or isn't there, that's also concerning. Ditch the electric fan, save those for the normal cars. The deuces prefer it's mechanical fan which works very well. Only reason I can see why they switched it, is if the radiator won't allow the mechanical fan to fit, but if that's the case, I'd get rid of that radiator and put a normal deuce radiator back in, I'm sure there's a SS member who's willing to sell one.
As far as a misfire, what's you're exact description of a misfire on the deuce? There's no glow plugs or spark plugs, so there's either a bad/dirty fuel injector or it's surging due to dirty fuel filters.
Only other possibility of there causing surges or "misfire" could be air getting into the fuel system somewhere.
You're going to want to pull the injectors and have a helper turn the engine over while they are hooked to the fuel system, see if they all pop off and if they, is it a squirt or a mist, which you want a mist so it atomizes the fuel for a better burn. Another assumption one can make is the fuel. Too much gasoline, which can cause premature ignition or knocking, which isn't suppose to happen, unless there's a fuel injector not working properly, or you have water in the fuel and the primary filter is not able to separate it due to being old, or too much water all together which makes its way past the filter.

 

[HDN]

What motor is in the truck? Is it some kind of gasser or the multifuel diesel? I'm wondering if the truck had another engine put in it along with the radiator. I know some older gasser deuces have been repowered with 350 Chevy V8s.

 

[cattlerepairman]

I know that in temperatures that we have here in the summer (30 plus C/90F and up) my Deuce did perfectly fine WITHOUT the mechanical fan, just cooled by the air flowing through the rad when driving. Temps would climb immediately when stopped, though.

From what you are telling us it seems to me that the block and rad need a good flushing. See @ToddJK 's reply. Maybe the aftermarket rad is undersized? An aluminium rad and electric fan would generally be desirable upgrades.

 

[kenn]

I recently went through the whole process of flushing out my system. I would encourage you to read my thread for some of my adventures and maybe a tip or two. I suspect someone went aftermarket on the radiator as from what I've seen the OEM ones are expensive to buy and ship nevermind harder to find. Even though it will cost you a bit, get back to the oem setup as suggested above. Before doing that, however, make sure you completely and fully flush your system and make sure you get the block as well. I didn't have a heater core to deal with but there's that, too.

As a point of reference -- to get my truck thermostat to open, I had to get it over 180 degrees and I literally had to block the entire radiator with cardboard to get it into the high 190s while idling around 1500-1600. This was in the Texas heat around 100 degrees...

To answer your last question, your truck is 50+ years old. Stuff is going to need to be repaired/replaced. You're going to have to do it yourself. You're going to need some epic tools, lol.

 

[rustystud]

Before you go and start changing stuff, clean out your coolant system like others mentioned and see how it drives. Diesel engines will "missfire" when they get too hot. Basically, the fuel if cooking off before the compression cycle is finished due to the extra heat of the over hot engine. Seen this happen many times.
So, clean out your coolant and take a drive. If your still experiencing this "misfire" let us know.

 

[getheated]

Update:
I have been flushing the cooling system on and off. I am still getting muck out but the truck continues to run hot. When I went to change the oil I’m pretty sure I discovered why it’s having trouble. It appears the previous owner at some point decided to use the oil pan as a jack location. After draining the oil I could verify the mesh for the pick up was right against the bottom of the pan.
Fingers crossed that it hasn’t been damaged yet but my next check I’ll be ordering an oil pan/gasket. I would normally just try to beat an oil pan back into shape but my pan has some rust and I worry that I’ll pop holes in the process.
Don’t suppose anyone has an oil pan just sitting around?
I have a lot more questions and all the stuff I’m finding in here regarding power steering or overdrive/transmission options mostly lead to dead ends. I love this truck and I’m willing to spend whatever it takes to rebuild the drivetrain as it’s been badly beaten and neglected… but I have a medical condition that make steering this truck for more than 10 mins a serious challenge and with where I live, I need to be able to at least do 60mph. Should I just give up and sell it? I’m not in a financial position to reposed it with a more modern engine to accept a better transmission. Help me out here fellas.

 

[kenn]

Update:
I have been flushing the cooling system on and off. I am still getting muck out but the truck continues to run hot. When I went to change the oil I’m pretty sure I discovered why it’s having trouble. It appears the previous owner at some point decided to use the oil pan as a jack location. After draining the oil I could verify the mesh for the pick up was right against the bottom of the pan.
Fingers crossed that it hasn’t been damaged yet but my next check I’ll be ordering an oil pan/gasket. I would normally just try to beat an oil pan back into shape but my pan has some rust and I worry that I’ll pop holes in the process.
Don’t suppose anyone has an oil pan just sitting around?
I have a lot more questions and all the stuff I’m finding in here regarding power steering or overdrive/transmission options mostly lead to dead ends. I love this truck and I’m willing to spend whatever it takes to rebuild the drivetrain as it’s been badly beaten and neglected… but I have a medical condition that make steering this truck for more than 10 mins a serious challenge and with where I live, I need to be able to at least do 60mph. Should I just give up and sell it? I’m not in a financial position to reposed it with a more modern engine to accept a better transmission. Help me out here fellas.

This is my .02 and I'm sure others will vehemently disagree. I suppose you could do the air assist steering mod. It's about $3K last I checked. Plus you still have hundreds and hundreds of dollars (really $thousands) to address 50 years of neglect. Money aside, the "need to do 60mph" thing is a bit of a concern for me. I used to think using a deuce as a daily driver is not big deal once you get beyond the parking, but it is a big deal. For me, driving a deuce 60MPH isn't an option because I don't believe it is sane anywhere there is any kind of traffic. The single circuit brakes and sheer mass going that fast are a huge concern for me. In my current -- essentially stock -- form, I reach 50mph and I'm happy to let it stay right there. I see all kinds of threads stating, "It'll do 65mph all day long!" in the deuce forum. I'm not insulting these folks as many have put the time and money into their rigs to at least make them somewhat reasonably safe but If you want to go that fast all the time, I'd personally look for a different military truck that was designed for it. Maybe a hummer or an LMTV instead? And make it one that has already been "restored".

 

[HDN]

Money aside, the "need to do 60mph" thing is a bit of a concern for me. I used to think using a deuce as a daily driver is not big deal once you get beyond the parking, but it is a big deal. For me, driving a deuce 60MPH isn't an option because I don't believe it is sane anywhere there is any kind of traffic. The single circuit brakes and sheer mass going that fast are a huge concern for me. In my current -- essentially stock -- form, I reach 50mph and I'm happy to let it stay right there. I see all kinds of threads stating, "It'll do 65mph all day long!" in the deuce forum. I'm not insulting these folks as many have put the time and money into their rigs to at least make them somewhat reasonably safe but If you want to go that fast all the time, I'd personally look for a different military truck that was designed for it. Maybe a hummer or an LMTV instead? And make it one that has already been "restored".

Totally agree - I won't do more than 50 with mine even with dual-circuit brakes. I just take my time in the truck - I want people to see my truck and not a big green blur That's what my daily drivers are for!

I don't think even the FMTV is designed to go much faster than 55 - maybe the later models are? I've read that a stock HMMWV gets pretty sketchy to ride in when around 60 MPH, but I think there are mods that can help that. The HEMTT, on the other hand, was designed to do 60+ MPH all day long. I guess DoD really wanted a fast 10-ton truck

 

[ToddJK]

I'll be honest here, with a stock deuce, 45-52mph is your cruising speed. Bigger tires allow smaller increments of speed gain until you reach 46" or 395 style of tire, or bigger if the truck is bobbed. With 395's, I can cruise the interstates at 55 mph all day long, 60 for a short bit and preferably smooth or newly paved roads. Hitting bumps even like the typical patch jobs we all see on the interstate and they don't feel like much of anything in a normal car, it makes the deuce jump all over due to the suspension system. Those shows where they repower the deuce with a new motor and tranny to cruise 75 on the highway, I don't buy that. I can only imagine how much that truck is bouncing around on the road hitting all those bumps. Sure,newly paved or smooth roads, it's a blast, but realistically, 55 and under is safer. Single or dual circuit brakes, we all know about the brakes, but I would say add the dual circuit system if possible just for overall safety in the long run.

As far as the engine running hot, I would keep flushing it out and the radiator. Replace the thermostat as well.
The oil pan, try cleaning it up and see how sturdy it is once the rustic removed. Shouldn't be an issue pounding it back out with a large mallet.

For steering and such, I don't know squat about any of that as I don't have it, other than I'd read the threads you can about it.

If you really want a MV as a daily driver and have some of the better options, maybe look into a 900 series 5 ton. Speeds won't be much better but still better.

 

[davidb56]

Update:
I have been flushing the cooling system on and off. I am still getting muck out but the truck continues to run hot. When I went to change the oil I’m pretty sure I discovered why it’s having trouble. It appears the previous owner at some point decided to use the oil pan as a jack location. After draining the oil I could verify the mesh for the pick up was right against the bottom of the pan.
Fingers crossed that it hasn’t been damaged yet but my next check I’ll be ordering an oil pan/gasket. I would normally just try to beat an oil pan back into shape but my pan has some rust and I worry that I’ll pop holes in the process.
Don’t suppose anyone has an oil pan just sitting around?
I have a lot more questions and all the stuff I’m finding in here regarding power steering or overdrive/transmission options mostly lead to dead ends. I love this truck and I’m willing to spend whatever it takes to rebuild the drivetrain as it’s been badly beaten and neglected… but I have a medical condition that make steering this truck for more than 10 mins a serious challenge and with where I live, I need to be able to at least do 60mph. Should I just give up and sell it? I’m not in a financial position to reposed it with a more modern engine to accept a better transmission. Help me out here fellas.

you'll never see a safe 60mph. you need power steering, and fix the other issues. I would sell it instead of dumping 3-4K into power steering, possibly a new radiator, and still be only able to drive 50mph max safely.

 

[ToddJK]

One easy option, if you're not set on doing all the work, sell your deuce, take what you can and buy one that already has the upgrades.

It seems that if you're still flushing muck out it, that radiator may be plugged or the thin channels are plugged to a degree that it'll take many flushes to clean or just be easier to replace.

It's also common to dent the oil pans on the deuce. Running over junk cars, trees, and other things, having fun and no one thinks about the oil pan being exposed as there is no skid plate. I couldn't find an oil pan by a quick Google search, so hopefully a member has a junk engine they can pull one off from.

 

[HDN]

It's also common to dent the oil pans on the deuce. Running over junk cars, trees, and other things, having fun and no one thinks about the oil pan being exposed as there is no skid plate. I couldn't find an oil pan by a quick Google search, so hopefully a member has a junk engine they can pull one off from.

Is there enough sheet metal on an old oil pan to weld a patch on?

 

[ToddJK]

Is there enough sheet metal on an old oil pan to weld a patch on?

The oil pan feels like a 12-10 gauge steel maybe more? It's been a while but I remember having it off it was quite the pan. I would assume you could weld it as long as the steel being welded on can be molded properly to fit and the setting for the welder is correct to not just burn through it. I can't imagine the oil pan being thicker or thinner than some of those old oil furnace tanks. My dad has used many of those to cut and weld to make pig roasters and such out of them.

 

[NDT]

Brutally honest here: preexisting medical conditions and maintaining and operation of 2 1/2 ton trucks don’t go together. If anything you will get ADDITIONAL medical conditions. Suggest you downsize to a CUCV Blazer. Speed you want along with power steering.

 

[rustystud]

Like the others have already mentioned, a Deuce at 60MPH is just downright scary. Set aside the brake issue. The steering geometry is not set up for it. Mine can cruise at 55MPH but it really likes 50MPH better. I know about working on the Deuce with "medical conditions" . It is a pain, literally !!!
So my advice is the same as all the others. Sell your Deuce and buy something else. The Germans make quite a few neat little military vehicles that can cruise at reasonable speeds. As do the British.
I don' think you want the "HEMTT" as that is a really big truck and extremely costly to run and operate.

 

[SCSG-G4]

I love this truck and I’m willing to spend whatever it takes to rebuild the drivetrain as it’s been badly beaten and neglected… but I have a medical condition that make steering this truck for more than 10 mins a serious challenge and with where I live, I need to be able to at least do 60mph. Should I just give up and sell it? I’m not in a financial position to reposed it with a more modern engine to accept a better transmission. Help me out here fellas.

If you 'need' to do 60 in a deuce you will have to run larger tires than the stock 900-20's. Long time ago one of our mathmetically gifted members calculated the deuce at 2550 RPM's through the transmission, transfer case and the Rockwell pumpkins/axles onto stock, brand new 900-20 tires would max out at 49 mph. An LDS engine (5 ton) will allow higher RPM's and could go faster. But either way it will beat you to death unless the road is smooth as glass at those speeds. JMHO.

 

[HDN]

If you 'need' to do 60 in a deuce you will have to run larger tires than the stock 900-20's. Long time ago one of our mathmetically gifted members calculated the deuce at 2550 RPM's through the transmission, transfer case and the Rockwell pumpkins/axles onto stock, brand new 900-20 tires would max out at 49 mph. An LDS engine (5 ton) will allow higher RPM's and could go faster. But either way it will beat you to death unless the road is smooth as glass at those speeds. JMHO.

According to a tire size-speed calculator I looked up, going from a 9.00R20 (40" diameter) to a 395/85R20 (46" diameter) adds 15% to whatever the truck's speedometer is showing. So if you have an M35 (not A3) that goes from the stock tires to the 395s you're doing about 58 mph when your speedometer is showing 50 mph.