How does HMMWV shut down? Fuel shut off solenoid questions.

[springer1981]

Do you know where the wire originates that goes to the normal solenoid? Does it come from the 'run' switch?

That way I can use that and tap into 24V locally and create the momentary switch. Doesn't seem it would be complicated to do that everything else aside.

I don't think I would use that as the source 24v as it wouldn't have power if the ignition is off. I would think you would want power all the time to that switch, as Mogman said, direct from the battery. However that adds the need for a circuit breaker or fuse and if that trips, no power to shut it down.

But to answer your question it gets power from the ignition Run switch through the PCB.

 

[Mogman]

Do you know where the wire originates that goes to the normal solenoid? Does it come from the 'run' switch?

That way I can use that and tap into 24V locally and create the momentary switch. Doesn't seem it would be complicated to do that everything else aside.

The run signal goes through the EESS to the IP, you would want this circuit to be completely separate from all others, run straight to the batteries with of course a fuse, that way if any or all other circuits fail you can still shut down the engine, in IMHO not actually a very desirable way to run a railroad.
No power no shutdown...

 

[Milcommoguy]

Do you know where the wire originates that goes to the normal solenoid? Does it come from the 'run' switch?

That way I can use that and tap into 24V locally and create the momentary switch. Doesn't seem it would be complicated to do that everything else aside.

You PM ed me direct and I responded. I post the same here > Not directlly... But, yes it does. You should look at the schematic to see the multiple connections that feed other circuits to "RUN" the truck. It is not a single lead or wire direct to the IP solenoid from the "BOX"

I would like to play more... But time to get out of this sand box, CAMO

 

[Barrman]

Way back when I only owned a single 6.2 in a m1009. I installed a rebuilt IP, got it started and then it wouldn’t turn off when I turned the key off. This was in 2011 and there was a thread similar to this one where blocking the return line will kill the engine was mentioned. I used a pair of pliers to do just that.

Then daily drove the truck for a week waiting for the new solenoid to get shipped. The pliers got used a bunch and got me thinking about a cable operated ball valve in the return line so the truck would operated just like my M35A2. With the batteries only needed for starting. I never moved forward on the idea because as pointed out several times. The stock solenoid is very dependable and re inventing the wheel doesn’t have to be done weekly I have learned.

 

[nikojo]

The run signal goes through the EESS to the IP, you would want this circuit to be completely separate from all others, run straight to the batteries with of course a fuse, that way if any or all other circuits fail you can still shut down the engine, in IMHO not actually a very desirable way to run a railroad.
No power no shutdown...

If I did it this way I would have a manual shut off in line so in the event there was no power or the solenoid failed you would just cut off the fuel. Given this would be rare it shouldn't harm the IP.

Agree that it likely needs it's own circuit.......could just tap off the always hot wire on the run switch. Don't understand why it would need a fuse or breaker as the normal solenoid doesn't have one.

 

[nikojo]

You PM ed me direct and I responded. I post the same here > Not directlly... But, yes it does. You should look at the schematic to see the multiple connections that feed other circuits to "RUN" the truck. It is not a single lead or wire direct to the IP solenoid from the "BOX"

I would like to play more... But time to get out of this sand box, CAMO

Here is schematic. The shut off solenoid is fed off pin "A" on the engine harness from the control box and it is shared with circuits to fan delay/fan control as well as 'logic' on glow plug control. Don't know where that 'nexus' is though.

 

[nikojo]

BTW I appreciate everyone indulging me.

I understand I may be only one interested in this and I apologize if this is annoying.

I have learned a lot that otherwise I don't think I could have on my own.

 

[nikojo]

So here is what I have in summary based on everyone's input........

* Shut off solenoid (electric shut off = ESO) is reliable and rare to fail.

* Solenoid operates with the cold advance solenoid within the housing and is cooled with diesel fuel in a low pressure of 3-4 psi compared to 350 psi in the pump itself.

* Not a good idea to simply cut off the fuel supply as this would starve the IP and also lack cooling to the solenoids.

* Solenoid is fed with 24V from the control box when the run switch is activated. While the solenoid is energized the fuel is in 'on' to the IP.

* there is a reverse ETSO solenoid that when activated will do the converse and shut off fuel off at the level of the IP. This is better as it doesn't starve the IP but it does requires power to shut of the engine.

* If the ETSO fails you will need a backup such as cutting off fuel with pair of pliers or a switch.

* Advantage of conversion is allows engine start regardless solenoid condition and disadvantage is the work involved and having to add a way to cut off fuel or carrying a pair of pliers to pinch the feed or return line.

 

[springer1981]

So here is what I have in summary based on everyone's input........

* Shut off solenoid (electric shut off = ESO) is reliable and rare to fail.

* Solenoid operates with the cold advance solenoid within the housing and is cooled with diesel fuel in a low pressure of 3-4 psi compared to 350 psi in the pump itself.

* Not a good idea to simply cut off the fuel supply as this would starve the IP and also lack cooling to the solenoids.

* Solenoid is fed with 24V from the control box when the run switch is activated. While the solenoid is energized the fuel is in 'on' to the IP.

* there is a reverse ETSO solenoid that when activated will do the converse and shut off fuel off at the level of the IP. This is better as it doesn't starve the IP but it does requires power to shut of the engine.

* If the ETSO fails you will need a backup such as cutting off fuel with pair of pliers or a switch.

* Advantage of conversion is allows engine start regardless solenoid condition and disadvantage is the work involved and having to add a way to cut off fuel or carrying a pair of pliers to pinch the feed or return line.

After reading all that I have regarding this thread and IP's, here are the things I take away.

1, Stanadyne makes a LOT of IP's and they are used in many diesels. The majority of them use ETR for a reason.
2, In the PDF they show a manual override for the ETR
3, If I were ever so inclined to have a backup in case of a solenoid failure, it would be a simple mechanical version that retains the ETR

 

[Milcommoguy]

Lessons learned.......

Forgot one of these >



PUTT PUtt putt, CAMO

 

[nikojo]

Lessons learned.......

Forgot one of these >

View attachment 888120

PUTT PUtt putt, CAMO

ha!. i want one. these were responsible for what we terms is a 'chauffer's fracture'..........painful wrist condition when that crank pops back on your wrist and breaks it.

 

[SmartDrug]

ha!. i want one. these were responsible for what we terms is a 'chauffer's fracture'..........painful wrist condition when that crank pops back on your wrist and breaks it.

IIRC The saying, “Watch out for the first step, it’s a doozy!” Is regarding this exact situation but regarding the Deusenberg Coaches being prone to this issue, back in the day.

 

[Barrman]

Those hand cranks breaking bones supposedly is what motivated Kettering to develop the electric starter and the Dayton Elecitric Company (DELCO) to make them after a friends wife died of infection after breaking her arm trying to start a vehicle.

 

[TOBASH]

Those hand cranks breaking bones supposedly is what motivated Kettering to develop the electric starter and the Dayton Elecitric Company (DELCO) to make them after a friends wife died of infection after breaking her arm trying to start a vehicle.

Indian motorcycle company was trying to make a starter BUT the problem was battery technology was not yet advanced enough.

FYI, Toyota FJ40 series gasoline engines all had hand crank rods until the 1980’s.

Best,

T

 

[kscycler]

Well the solenoid trips a lever in the governor housing on the IP.
I would not be surprised if Roosa Master did build pumps with mechanical shut down but I cannot ever remember seeing one.
I think allot of other things are going to fail on you before the IP shutdown solenoid......
But no you cannot simply install a valve somewhere to bypass the shut down solenoid.

Rosa Master did indeed manufacture an IP with manual shutdown. Both of my old Ford diesel tractors have manual shutoff.

 

[Mogman]

Rosa Master did indeed manufacture an IP with manual shutdown. Both of my old Ford diesel tractors have manual shutoff.

Welcome to the SS forums!
I also have seen several Roosa Master IPs with mechanical shutdown.