How many have had their driveshafts balanced?

[coachgeo]

Anyone have a shop they would recommend in the Portland, OR area to take care of this?

Any shop that regularly does 18wheelers etc. Call your closest truck stop that does tire repairs etc. on big rigs (or more) and ask them whom they send trucks or shafts too for drive shaft work in your area

 

[coachgeo]

BTW if one wants extra insurance.... i've no clue if they work but here is drive shaft balance rings that work like wheel balance rings

http://www.balancemasters.com/driveshafts.html

I'll probably put one on my front shaft at least.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

BTW if one wants extra insurance.... i've no clue if they work but here is drive shaft balance rings that work like wheel balance rings

http://www.balancemasters.com/driveshafts.html

I'll probably put one on my front shaft at least.

Since when did they start putting snake oil in little rings?

 

[Reworked LMTV]

Interesting. Filled with sand or beads maybe?

BTW if one wants extra insurance.... i've no clue if they work but here is drive shaft balance rings that work like wheel balance rings

http://www.balancemasters.com/driveshafts.html

I'll probably put one on my front shaft at least.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Interesting. Filled with sand or beads maybe?

They're filled with a "patented" mixture of hopes and dreams, and are being marketed to the people who don't care to find the real source of their driveline problems.

The only interesting part is that they don't come with locking tabs or Loctite. One could loosen up, create tremendous vibration of its own and crack the engine block. So...not really that interesting but...

 

[coachgeo]

Since when did they start putting snake oil in little rings?

That's what they said about tire balance systems of same design..... and it's naysayers got debunked with result ending up being many use bead or liquid balance systems these days.

 

[Awesomeness]

Since when did they start putting snake oil in little rings?

I'm not sure where this skepticism is coming from. Dynamic balancers work really well - better than static balancing (within the range of imbalance the model can handle). They're significantly more expensive though, so if regular balancing weights will do (e.g. you don't need the dynamic balancing characteristics) you might as well just use those. The only sound argument you can make against them is that they are often overkill, but not that they don't work.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Comparing tires and driveshafts is apples to oranges. The only thing they have in common is that they are rotating masses. Tires are constantly changing, hence the need for constant balancing. This is why the dynamic systems work better than static balancing.

Driveshafts don't change. U-joints, slip joints and carrier bearings all wear and can create vibrations, but unless the driveshaft itself is damaged in some way, the balance doesn't change for the driveshaft. This is why you don't get your driveshaft rotated and balanced when you get your oil changed. It's not necessary.

So let's say your slip joint is causing a vibration. Maybe the magic ring will take some of that vibration away. This is just masking the real problem though, a worn slip joint. Maybe it masks it long enough that it becomes a catastrophic failure. That's the problem with bandaids, you can't see what's going on underneath them.

I never said dynamic balancing didn't work, and ya'll were the ones that started talking about tires. I'm simply saying that the little ring that was originally linked is pointless on a driveshaft and can actually do more harm than good by hiding a driveline problem. I mean how many times do you balance a crankshaft throughout the life of the engine? Should we put one of those little rings on them as well?

There's a video of the CEO of that company explaining how it works at a trade show. He makes a lot of claims on how this little ring cures and prevents all sorts of problems. Several of the claims are a bit outrageous. There were many "naysayers" of snake oil as well. Turns out they were correct.

 

[Awesomeness]

Comparing tires and driveshafts is apples to oranges. The only thing they have in common is that they are rotating masses. Tires are constantly changing, hence the need for constant balancing. This is why the dynamic systems work better than static balancing.

Driveshafts don't change. U-joints, slip joints and carrier bearings all wear and can create vibrations, but unless the driveshaft itself is damaged in some way, the balance doesn't change for the driveshaft. This is why you don't get your driveshaft rotated and balanced when you get your oil changed. It's not necessary.

So let's say your slip joint is causing a vibration. Maybe the magic ring will take some of that vibration away. This is just masking the real problem though, a worn slip joint. Maybe it masks it long enough that it becomes a catastrophic failure. That's the problem with bandaids, you can't see what's going on underneath them.

I never said dynamic balancing didn't work, and ya'll were the ones that started talking about tires. I'm simply saying that the little ring that was originally linked is pointless on a driveshaft and can actually do more harm than good by hiding a driveline problem. I mean how many times do you balance a crankshaft throughout the life of the engine? Should we put one of those little rings on them as well?

There's a video of the CEO of that company explaining how it works at a trade show. He makes a lot of claims on how this little ring cures and prevents all sorts of problems. Several of the claims are a bit outrageous. There were many "naysayers" of snake oil as well. Turns out they were correct.

They are not apples-to-oranges, a rotating mass is a rotating mass, and you balance them the exact same way. You did say they didn't work, you called them "snake oil" which is exactly what that means.

Your argument then is that nothing should ever be balanced to any extent because it's a bandaid? Because while a dynamic balance is overkill for something that remains fairly static (as I said before), it will still balance it better. Having the driveshaft balanced at the shop with static weights is also a bandaid, by your argument.

 

[coachgeo]

.....Driveshafts don't change. U-joints, slip joints and carrier bearings all wear and can create vibrations, but unless the driveshaft itself is damaged in some way, the balance doesn't change for the driveshaft....

BINGO... Esp. If your building an expo..camper or any other reason where you actually get off road; this buys better possibility to get to a shop after an in incident with less risk of taking out your tranny etc. via vibration from a small dent, knackered driveshaft weight etc.

 

[Awesomeness]

BINGO... Esp. If your building an expo..camper or any other reason where you actually get off road; this buys better possibility to get to a shop after an in incident with less risk of taking out your tranny etc. via vibration from a small dent, knackered driveshaft weight etc.

While a dynamic balancer will balance better, and allow the driveshaft to survive some things a static balance weight wouldn't, keep in mind that the balancer itself probably has lower survivability. Anything that would wreck a static weight is definitely going to destroy the dynamic balancer.

I was only rebutting Swamp Donkey's argument that they were "snake oil", which it complete nonsense. Whether they are actually better to use or not for my/your/our particular use is a whole different discussion.

 

[coachgeo]

... keep in mind that the balancer itself probably has lower survivability. Anything that would wreck a static weight is definitely going to destroy the dynamic balancer.....

maybe not. It is rubber. only metal is the clamp that keeps it located on the shaft where you want it. To install you drop the shaft... slide the rubber ring (with internal passage for balance medium) over the shaft then reinstall drive shaft. Metal clamp is after that. For off roading reasons... maybe put it on the transmision end of the shaft. If you hit that thing mounted that far up the driveshaft ...... your probably not driving home anyway cause your using it like a Trials truck and it's trailered to events anyway.

 

[ckouba]

Had my driveshafts rebuilt, just reinstalled them and got it up to speed- holy crap, what a difference- WAY smoother. I thought my tires were square but vibrations persisted after I changed them. They needed one new spline and a bit of balance work for the rebuild.

I can still feel what I believe to be tire/wheel imbalance but it is GREATLY reduced since the shaft work. I have been plying the search function for concrete leads on if balance beads (or some other media) actually work for our application. I haven't seen anyone say "I used (this product) and put (this much) in per wheel with my CTIS on my FMTV and it worked/sucked". I can only seem to find conversation regarding the concern of impacting CTIS with their use.

Does anyone have any practical experience with balancing media? What has been used successfully and what are the details?

Chris

 

[Third From Texas]

Several threads have discussed balance media. Some using airsoft pellets claiming success (just make certain no oils are within the CTIS system as it will melt the pellets and gum up the entire works). And a few people are running liquid (antifreeze).

 

[Lostchain]

Had my driveshafts rebuilt, just reinstalled them and got it up to speed- holy crap, what a difference- WAY smoother. I thought my tires were square but vibrations persisted after I changed them. They needed one new spline and a bit of balance work for the rebuild.

Who did you use for the rebuild?

 

[TomTime]

Who did you use for the rebuild?

Not sure if they’re in your area but Fleet Pride did all three of my drive shafts. They did a great job.!
The guy who did them said that there were never balanced.
He said that they are like tires, if you don’t see a weight on them somewhere, they’re not balanced. He said all drive shafts have to be balanced!

 

[Lostchain]

Thanks for the tip! I have a fleet pride very near to me, so I will call them on Monday thanks!

But in regards to the weights. Is it totally impossible for them to have been manufactured balanced enough to not need a weight?

The reason I ask is, my front drive shaft does have a weight spot welded to it, but the rear doesn’t. I inspected the rear pretty closely and can find no evidence that there was ever a weight on there. For example I can’t find any old spot welds or discolored areas like there was a weight there that fell off. There is some residual sticky stuff in the shape of a square that I assumed could have been a label that fell off.
My truck is 2003 and had only 6100 miles when I bought it, and the driveshafts seem pretty clean so I am not sure I need to do anything with them.

here is a pic of the front and rear, I am curious for an opinion on this. Fundamentally the reason I am concerned is thatI have read posts about people having terrible problems with their drive shafts and I am sort of paranoid. My truck does have a groaning sound while driving that seems to be driveline related but I am not sure if it is normal or not. I have watched other LMTV videos on YouTube where I can hear that groan from the cab, and so not ever having been in an LMTV before I got mine, I don’t honestly know what they are “supposed” to sound like. My plan is to attach a go-pro to the undercarriage and see if I can observe any wobbling in the drive shaft.

front with weight:



Rear weight nowhere to be found

 

[TomTime]

Although I had all three drive shafts balanced, I had to have the front and intermediate drive shafts completely rebuilt. These shafts had flat spots on them and it appeared that at sometime the truck was moved with a large forklift and bent the shafts.
When I went back to Fleet Pride to pickup my drive shafts I seen 30-40 brand new drive shaft laying on the floor. I ask the guy if these were new purchases for a company. He said that a local trucking depot had purchased a large amount of new Freightliners. He said that the company had there mechanic remove the drive shafts from all of the trucks to have them balanced.
The guy said that they were never balanced (per him) and when I looked at the shafts there were no weights to be found on any of them. He said that this is now the norm. When companies purchase new truck-tractors and large straight trucks they have the shafts balanced before driving them. I was very surprised to hear this considering the cost of these new trucks.
Make sure you get new U-joints and take them in with you when you get them balanced. They balance the shafts with the U-joints installed on the shafts, that way they are balanced yoke to yoke.
I won't recommend you drive the truck until you get the shafts balanced, it could cause a lot of issues with vibrations in the drive train

Good luck, take care,
Tom.

 

[Ned81]

There is a test to check if you u-joints are worn. My truck only has 6100 miles on it but I don’t think the drive shafts were original. I got mine rebuilt and balanced it it’s night and day smoother. I highly recommend balancing/rebuilding the driveshafts as one of the first things to do when you get one of these trucks. The vibration from a bad shaft can wreck so many things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Awesomeness]

Thanks for the tip! I have a fleet pride very near to me, so I will call them on Monday thanks!

But in regards to the weights. Is it totally impossible for them to have been manufactured balanced enough to not need a weight?

The reason I ask is, my front drive shaft does have a weight spot welded to it, but the rear doesn’t. I inspected the rear pretty closely and can find no evidence that there was ever a weight on there. For example I can’t find any old spot welds or discolored areas like there was a weight there that fell off. There is some residual sticky stuff in the shape of a square that I assumed could have been a label that fell off.
My truck is 2003 and had only 6100 miles when I bought it, and the driveshafts seem pretty clean so I am not sure I need to do anything with them.

here is a pic of the front and rear, I am curious for an opinion on this. Fundamentally the reason I am concerned is thatI have read posts about people having terrible problems with their drive shafts and I am sort of paranoid. My truck does have a groaning sound while driving that seems to be driveline related but I am not sure if it is normal or not. I have watched other LMTV videos on YouTube where I can hear that groan from the cab, and so not ever having been in an LMTV before I got mine, I don’t honestly know what they are “supposed” to sound like. My plan is to attach a go-pro to the undercarriage and see if I can observe any wobbling in the drive shaft.

front with weight:


View attachment 858804
Rear weight nowhere to be found
View attachment 858805

It's possible that a driveshaft assembled at the factory wouldn't need weights, but unlikely. Because they expect the assembly to be balanced, each of the individual subcomponents is not really manufactured to be overly well balanced. For example, they might use tubing with a weld seam down one side (I have no idea if they do, just hypothetically), take a steel yoke casting and just grind off the sprue (liquid metal entry point) by hand, etc.

I recommend getting the driveshafts balanced. Yes, it's going to cost at least a few hundred dollars if they find nothing, and almost everyone reports that they do find issues and the total bill is like $750-1000. The gamble is that while it seems like most driveshafts need significant repairs, only maybe 5% of people have issues... however, the "issues" they have (including myself) are extreme: broken alternators, broken starters, cracked water pumps, and finally broken engine blocks and transmissions. That stuff is expensive to fix, can be difficult to get parts for, and is very time consuming to repair. So if you don't get them balanced, like me, you may end up spending $10,000 and a month's worth of nights and weekends to replace a whole engine, also like me.

Don't take the shortcut. Get them balanced.