How rare are M54s vs M35s?

[TechnoWeenie]

I guess I'm answering my own question but, it seems like I can find M35s every day and twice on Tuesday, but searching major sites like Facebook and Craigslist found me ONE for sale in the entire country.

Were not as many manufactured and/or surplused?

 

[ToddJK]

I know people who have a M54 typically don't want to let them go, or at least one M54 owner has told me once...

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Speaking from personal observation and direct conversation with others, the M-39 series truck (M51, M52, M54, etc) are all "old" and out classed by many generations of 5 tons (M809, M939, MTV) if compared by modern performance standards. They've been released from active service for decades so attrition has played its part there as well as for those in private hands. They retain a historical value to some but they're not near as prolific as their little brother "deuce and a half" in quantity or identity.

The M44 series truck (M35, M36, etc) had a prolonged and impressive service life, and despite the "herd" being pruned over the years, a majority were retained for service and stayed in service past their turn in date. For instance, in 1988-1989 the Army and Air Force ordered more of them.. but none of the M-39 series. One could apply this same situation to the even older G-749 series (M135, M211, etc) "deuce and a halfs" that served in the 50's. There are a few still around in some sort of condition but beyond a true die hard fan, museum, or "barn find" they're lost to age.


tl;dr - they were superseded and attrition of time

 

[NDT]

In my opinion, there were 10 M35s for every one M54. Many more of the 5 ton fleet were tractors.

 

[G744]

Wouldn't trade mine for a newer job. Nope.

G744

 

[HDN]

There was an M54A2 that I considered buying when I was looking for a truck. It was owned by fire department and used as a brush truck, with a brush guard going from the bumper to the grill and a headache rack. The only problem was that it was six hours away from me and I wasn't willing to drive it back, nor was I able to afford to transport it.

If I got one or an M813 I'd try to put dual-circuit brakes on it or try a complete air brake conversion. Single-circuit is bad enough on anything, even worse on a 22000 lb truck.

 

[msgjd]

as others allude to, there are many reasons for the shortage of M54 cargoes, however as Fuzzytoaster mentioned, attrition and age is the factor of the situation you find today .. 15 to 20 years ago I could point you to six surplus truck dealers who each had 6 or more M54's sitting in their yards .. The scrap purge of 2007-08 was the end for many old-school 5-ton and 10-ton trucks that were otherwise decent operational trucks...

I wish my CONUS army inventory report from 1983 was in my hand and not still in storage before I say this, but to answer your main Title Question, I certainly believe that way more M35 cargoes were built than M54 cargoes. (I have to say cargoes at this point because there are readers out there who call any and all variation of a deuce or 5-ton as "M35" or "M54", let alone those who call 5-tons "deuces." ). Not only was the M35 cheaper to procure, they were small and versatile system-wide, a well-suited size for all-around utilitarian use .. Case in point, I have never seen a 5-ton backed up to the loading dock of any mess hall nor zipping around the cantonment areas of any base doing mundane daily tasks. Has the M54 become rare? They are only rare in the sense it is hard to find one that has been put up for sale, as others allude to in other posts.

In my experience, M54's were nowhere to be seen in straight infantry units and most other types. Conversely, M54's were the truck of choice for armor, artillery, and a few other kinds of line and combat support outfits, basically, units whose missions required something much heavier than a deuce but that could still get into tight areas, negotiate densely-wooded areas in support of artillery or armor positions, narrow rough trails, etc... I cannot speak for the use of M54's by navy or air force however I do recall a picture of a (gas) M54 with USAF markings hauling 55gal fuel drums during the Korean War

 

[HDN]

@msgjd thank you for sharing that experience. I think it reinforces the reason why the 2 1/2-ton truck needed to be kept on-hand. I remember reading a document about FMTV procurement where Congress questioned the need to keep the 2 1/2-ton truck (M35A3/LMTV) when the 5-ton (MTV/M939) could do more at about the same size. I've questioned it too, and it just seems like there really is a need for a middle truck between the HMMWV/JLTV and the MTV. Even now it appears that there are more LMTVs around than MTVs, both in-service and out.

 

[G744]

The reason the M35's hung around a long time is one can flip the switch and go without the problems plaguing the newer trucks.

Mission capable is how they refer to vehicle status.

 

[Ajax MD]

There was an M54A2 that I considered buying when I was looking for a truck. It was owned by fire department and used as a brush truck, with a brush guard going from the bumper to the grill and a headache rack. The only problem was that it was six hours away from me and I wasn't willing to drive it back, nor was I able to afford to transport it.

If I got one or an M813 I'd try to put dual-circuit brakes on it or try a complete air brake conversion. Single-circuit is bad enough on anything, even worse on a 22000 lb truck.

Come on, hitting the pedal and not knowing if it'll hold is part of the charm and experience of owning an M813.

 

[Darylfraser]

I bought my deuce from a gentleman that also was selling a 1956 M54 gas job for cheap. I didn’t go over it too deep as I was interested in the deuce. I’ve kicked myself for not being able to afford both at the time. But I am curious how it left the military early enough to still have the 6602 and not get upgraded to A1 or A2 status. I have visions of a tribute Vietnam gun truck. If only I had unlimited funds……..

 

[patracy]

If I were to buy another large MV, I think it'd be a M54A2. Because it would be affordable to operate still with the LDS. But it would have power steering.

 

[msgjd]

I am curious how it left the military early enough to still have the 6602 and not get upgraded to A1 or A2 status

In my experience, it isn't that they left the military "early enough.." Yes there are cases where this is true since I have a M51 (6602) that was released in the late-70's to a County hwy dept ... But I also personally know of at least two Army NG armor batallions and an artillery battery that were fielding 6602-powered M54's and M52's, a good 25% of their fleet, alongside A1's, A2's, and 809-series, as late as 1989-90... As long as they ran fine, budgetary restrictions of the 1980's kept many of them from being "upgraded," as well as Toole Army Depot R6602 rebuild motors were still available at a reduced price to the State-funded NG units.. The "TAD Discount" was heresay from a BN Maint head, therefore I cannot confirm it.. Another factor involved was that there were also a number of senior maint sgts and senior transportation sgts who knew the 6602 is a much-better engine than the multifuel, the latter being the only "authorized" replacement by the 1980's .. I know of two NG armor batallions that refused to "upgrade" their gas M62's until @1990 when they received M936's, bypassing the M816 altogether, not that there was anything bad about them.. It was about this time they also turned in their M52's and M54's , and not long afterwards I came across about a dozen R6602 trucks still marked for the two armor BN's at a surplus truck dealer in 1997 .. On a similar note, these same two BN's and the arty battery conversely re-motored failed A2 trucks with the Mack (A1) engine while that engine was still available. Witnessed about six or seven 1970's-tagged A2's that had 673 macks put into them . .Somewhere I have a pic taken of me checking the oil on one of the 2BN's M54A2C's and it's clearly a mack in there . The guys used to fight over who got the macks

 

[pmramsey]

I purchased my M54A1 from the Army Reserve Unit in Lawrence Township NJ in 2015. It was a 1965 that was rebuilt in 1975 in include the lastest 673 engine, ungraded Spicer Trans, the newer M809 steering, and other upgrades. The rebuilt machine arrived with two other M54A1s in 1975. They remained in service with the unit until 2003 when they were "pickled" and stored with the unit. I picked up mine at the Reserve unit in April 2015. I did a complete cab off restoration/rebuild over the next 18 months. My M54A1 was the dog of the three. I called the unit and discussed all three with the maintenance officer. He said, "you want the one that appears all dogged-up. He was correct. Today, it lays around the farm during the summers and owns a winter spot next to the house where its sole assignment is to pack down any offending winter snow in the driveway sufficient for Camrys, Subarus, and a lazy old Dodge Ram so they can navigate the driveway. It perks up for parades and holidays. This will be my last MV so do not ask what I would take for it. In case you are interested in looking at my first military rig, I purchased it in 1994. You will probably never see a Grumman S-2F Tracker parked next to a barn again. It was built in 1956. It was as sweet running as the old Mack.

 

[Darylfraser]

In my experience, it isn't that they left the military "early enough.." Yes there are cases where this is true since I have a M51 (6602) that was released in the late-70's to a County hwy dept ... But I also personally know of at least two Army NG armor batallions and an artillery battery that were fielding 6602-powered M54's and M52's, a good 25% of their fleet, alongside A1's, A2's, and 809-series, as late as 1989-90... As long as they ran fine, budgetary restrictions of the 1980's kept many of them from being "upgraded," as well as Toole Army Depot R6602 rebuild motors were still available at a reduced price to the State-funded NG units.. The "TAD Discount" was heresay from a BN Maint head, therefore I cannot confirm it.. Another factor involved was that there were also a number of senior maint sgts and senior transportation sgts who knew the 6602 is a much-better engine than the multifuel, the latter being the only "authorized" replacement at the time .. I know of two NG armor batallions that refused to "upgrade" their gas M62's until @1990 when they received M936's, bypassing the M816 altogether. It was about this time they also turned in their M52's and M54's , since I came across about a dozen R6602 trucks still marked for the two armor BN's at a surplus truck dealer in 1997 .. On a similar note, these same two BN's and the arty battery conversely re-motored failed A2 trucks with the Mack (A1) engine while that engine was still available. Witnessed about six or seven 1970's-tagged A2's that had 673 macks in them

Thanks msgjd! I had no idea the gas jobs were kept around that long! The amount of knowledge on this site never ceases to amaze me. This probably helps explain why we still find NOS parts for 1950s “obsolete” vehicles in packaging marked in the 80s and 90s. I may reach out to the seller to see if he still has the M54 out of curiousosity. I’m in no position to buy it but it would be nice to see it go to a good home. I was given a great deal on my M35A2 because he knew I was going to keep and restore it.

 

[G744]

A few years ago I had an M543 wrecker. It had the 6602 gasser, ran great but was breaking me with just at 1mpg.

I repowered it with a Mack END-673T and that gave it 5 MPG.

Sold it off in the 2010's.

 

[msgjd]

A few years ago I had an M543 wrecker. It had the 6602 gasser, ran great but was breaking me with just at 1mpg.
I repowered it with a Mack END-673T and that gave it 5 MPG.

yup that holley carb ran way too rich and they sure like their gas .. The zenith replacement that was available for them later on is MUCH better carb for that engine

 

[msgjd]

Thanks msgjd! I had no idea the gas jobs were kept around that long! I may reach out to the seller to see if he still has the M54 out of curiousosity.

you are welcome .. I am curious as to what kind of other units , and where they were located, that were also fielding 6602-powered trucks into the 1990's

During my earliest days on fleabay , about 1997 or 98, someone below Albany NY posted a M54 for sale, still with its 6602 .. He posted he had just gotten it from DRMO a few years prior .. I quickly noticed the bumper numbers were clearly of an old friend, it was one of 6 gas-job T&P's both of the armor BNs had used in our Brigade for 3 decades refueling the M48's and M60's.. I emailed him and asked if the number on the driver door was such and such.. he said "yes! how in heck do you know that??? "