How reliable can I expect a "new" 2012 MTV to be? What locking diff options exist?

[exon111]

How reliable can I expect a "new" 2012 MTV to be? What locking diff options exist?

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new old stock 2012 BAE SD Brazos 6x6 and have Global Expedition Vehicles build a 23 ft camper shell on it. The SD Brazos is the civilian version of the MTV and is almost 100% identical to the regular MTV except it has a Cummins ISB engine (which will have the DPF junk removed). After reading some people's experiences here with FMTV reliability, I'm starting to get a little worried. Several hundred $K will be sunk into this camper in addition to the cost of the truck. If the truck turns out to need constant repairs or is likely to leave us stranded in the middle of nowhere, I'm going to really regret purchasing it and my wife isn't going to want to travel in it. I'm not super mechanically savvy (I'd rate my skills at 4/10) and do not have enough time to track down specialty repair shops out of state. That said, I absolutely love this truck!

What do you guys think, would a newer truck that is current on all maintenance be somewhat comparable in reliability to a regular commercial truck? I'm located in Orange County, CA which is not too far from either Los Angeles or San Diego. Do you think it would be difficult to find a shop in our area that can maintain this? My plan is to travel with my wife and 2 small kids around the western US, Alaska, and northern Canada and we really, really don't want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Given the weight of the camper, 6x6 is strongly preferred to reduce ground contact pressure and hopefully not get stuck. The backup option we are looking at is turning a Kenworth K370 into a 6x6. Unless that's significantly more reliable though, I'd much rather have the MTV.

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated!

Also, is there any front axle diff lock available for the MTV? I read there are rear lockers but can't find any info about a front locker.

 

[Awesomeness]

My opinion is that the lion's share of the problems with the trucks are not the design or quality of the trucks themselves. It's that they were beat on by military privates for a couple decades, then repaired by who didn't do a whole lot better job that the other guys that beat them up. Combine that with having a 20 year old truck that is about to have everything made of rubber (e.g. seals, hoses) fail due to age, and you see where the perception of poor reliability comes from.

A new truck like you're talking about, or an old one that has been owned by a competent owner long enough to have had all the broken stuff fixed, is probably quite reliable. BAE says that the FMTV is the most reliable military vehicle put in service to date (or some very high standard like that).

As to your 4/10 mechanical skills, in my experience "mechanical skills" are 80% confidence. It's like any other subject, which seams all mysterious at first, and then once you learn it you think "That's it? That's easy." You monkey with the stuff long enough, fixing the issues that pop up for you, and build a confidence that you can fix things that break.

 

[Aernan]

We just bought a m1078. It has cat and Allison parts. After your conversion most of the military parts will be stripped. At that point it's just a heavy diesel truck.

As far as reliability big commercial trucks are designed to fail slowly and gracefully. Everything is bigger and redundant. As long as you inspect the truck for wear and damage you should be able to catch things before they get catastrophic.

Our truck is a 1993 serial number 2. So as you might expect rubber parts are all now going bad. Water pump, thermostat already replaced. Starting to have trouble with some sensors like the throttle sensor. Batteries are trash.

After an initial repair period of finding and fixing this stuff we expect years of service. I know the motor is good for 500k miles.

Any reputable company will find and fix this stuff before you get the vehicle. The real reliability issues will be all the stuff in the camper portion. Go watch some RVs are junk videos on YouTube to get a idea of failures.

Realistically if you do break something big in most places you will need to wait for the parts to arrive and be installed.

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[Suprman]

Front and rear pumpkins are identical. If it fits in the rear then it fits the front. At least on the military trucks. I don't have any experience with the Brazos.

 

[Chism]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new old stock 2012 BAE SD Brazos 6x6 and have Global Expedition Vehicles build a 23 ft camper shell on it. The SD Brazos is the civilian version of the MTV and is almost 100% identical to the regular MTV except it has a Cummins ISB engine (which will have the DPF junk removed). After reading some people's experiences here with FMTV reliability, I'm starting to get a little worried. Several hundred $K will be sunk into this camper in addition to the cost of the truck. If the truck turns out to need constant repairs or is likely to leave us stranded in the middle of nowhere, I'm going to really regret purchasing it and my wife isn't going to want to travel in it. I'm not super mechanically savvy (I'd rate my skills at 4/10) and do not have enough time to track down specialty repair shops out of state. That said, I absolutely love this truck!

What do you guys think, would a newer truck that is current on all maintenance be somewhat comparable in reliability to a regular commercial truck? I'm located in Orange County, CA which is not too far from either Los Angeles or San Diego. Do you think it would be difficult to find a shop in our area that can maintain this? My plan is to travel with my wife and 2 small kids around the western US, Alaska, and northern Canada and we really, really don't want to be stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Given the weight of the camper, 6x6 is strongly preferred to reduce ground contact pressure and hopefully not get stuck. The backup option we are looking at is turning a Kenworth K370 into a 6x6. Unless that's significantly more reliable though, I'd much rather have the MTV.

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated!

Also, is there any front axle diff lock available for the MTV? I read there are rear lockers but can't find any info about a front locker.

“Google” Two if Overland. I️ met Martin an Bethany while they were in Alaska. They are traveling/living out of an older surplus 3126 M1083. Global Ex built their truck, and they seem quite happy so far. They do caution others to prepare and budget to work out some bugs, and that it may be harder and costlier than many people want to deal with. But they have the attitude that the truck allows them to adventure, AND the truck is part of the overall adventure. Continued maintenance and services on such a heavy vehicle is key. Just as importantly, actually driving and using the truck on a regular basis is key.


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[NDT]

Since so few Cummins powered Brazos were sold, there is literally no field experience with them. If you are buying your chassis from Worldwide in Houston, I can give it a going over for you as the dealership is close to my day job.

 

[coachgeo]

Same axles at M1078. Same axle Ratios. You will roll on the highway at about 50 to 55mph unless you have Expedition Outfitters change the axle ratios. There is now lockers for them. Detroit soft Lockers. Search for Detroit in this forum is liable to find you that info. In here is a thread on a fellow needing 50 people with money in hand to convince ARB to make lockers for them.

 

[exon111]

Thank you for the input, feeling a bit less worried now. I have been following the twoifoverland blog and they do seem pretty happy, except their post about having to go half way across the country to get a problem with the brakes fixed was a bit concerning. They built on a mil surplus MTV and thoroughly overhauled it.

The truck we're looking at is located at GXV's office in Missouri. I went over there and drove it on Friday. The previous owner added the high speed gearing and cruise control in preparation for building it into a camper that never materialized. Seems to be in like new shape, just needs new batteries because it sat for too long. I'm pretty sure there is no difference between the Brazos and the regular military version except the Cummins engine. Axles and everything else is identical. One thing that is confusing me is the Brazos data sheet lists a 75ft turning radius, yet the turning radius for the military version with the same wheelbase is around 50ft. Front axle and all the steering stuff should be identical, so thinking maybe it's a typo in the spec sheet. I'm going to measure the actual radius to see what the deal is with that. Seem to turn very sharp when I drove it.

 

[Recce01]

Thank you for the input, feeling a bit less worried now. I have been following the twoifoverland blog and they do seem pretty happy, except their post about having to go half way across the country to get a problem with the brakes fixed was a bit concerning. They built on a mil surplus MTV and thoroughly overhauled it.

The truck we're looking at is located at GXV's office in Missouri. I went over there and drove it on Friday. The previous owner added the high speed gearing and cruise control in preparation for building it into a camper that never materialized. Seems to be in like new shape, just needs new batteries because it sat for too long. I'm pretty sure there is no difference between the Brazos and the regular military version except the Cummins engine. Axles and everything else is identical. One thing that is confusing me is the Brazos data sheet lists a 75ft turning radius, yet the turning radius for the military version with the same wheelbase is around 50ft. Front axle and all the steering stuff should be identical, so thinking maybe it's a typo in the spec sheet. I'm going to measure the actual radius to see what the deal is with that. Seem to turn very sharp when I drove it.

Do you plan to do a blog, or have a forum thread somewhere we can follow your progress? I am very curious about your build, especially with a 23' box! Is your vehicle M1083 spec? Does it have a 161" wheelbase? If so, do you plan to extend the frame as Twoifoverland did? I heard that the twoif GXV box is mounted with opposing springs, and not on a 3 or 4 point subframe system. Sorry to blast you with so many questions.... but I am on a similar path albeit DIY

 

[Aernan]

Letting the batteries run dry should be a red flag. You can get solar battery tenders and leaving a vehicle on a tender or starting it once a month is required to make sure you don't get a bunch of internal rust. 6TAGM Batteries are over $400 retail so it pays to keep them tended.

 

[Givinup]

Do you have a timeline that you are trying to keep for your build? There are reliable mtv models that you can search for, and likely overhaul for significantly less than the Brazos. Then spend the extra money on the box etc.

If your up against a aggressive timeline, budget may not be as much of a concern. Searching for a military bae 6x6 for sale and upfitting from there would be my recommendation.



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[exon111]

No specific timeline but the one I'm buying is a better deal that it appears at first glance. The seller sunk over $25k into modifications I would otherwise need to pay to have done (high speed gearing, stretching wheelbase, moving axles, extended driveshaft, etc. I considered buying another Brazos for significantly less from worldwide machinery, but it had 9,000 rental miles on it and probably no maintenance done since new. After factoring in $25k in included mods, the left over savings for the used truck wasn't quite enough to offset the unknown usage history / lack of maintenance to me.

In terms of the military ones, I'm sure you are correct it would come out less overall, but depending on what value you put on time, the extra time invested may cancel much of that out. Also, I really prefer the Cummins engine (once the DPF is gone). Quieter and hopefully a little bit more reliable. Seems everyone with a C7 has issues with injectors. On the other hand, the CAT engine is EMP proof..

 

[f8617]

IMHO, before spending $100k, you'd be wise to learn 1st-hand.
So, buy an 3-axle S&S/BAE/Oshkosh FMTV for $10k-$15k; drive it for 4 seasons; then decide.

 

[Aernan]

I think now when we are talking about reliability we really mean longevity. This is a discussion of engineering not current state.

The cat 3116 is a known good mechanical design and can survive in harsh conditions with almost no maintenance/adjustments.

The 3126 with the HUI can suffer catastrophic failure when the MUI pump goes and spews metal into the main oil galleries. cat has an updated filter to protect the engine.

The C7 is a continuation of the 3126 but I believe it's sleeved and can be rebuilt in place. Given the option of the 3 this would be the best.

I don't know much about the other options but passenger trucks have very high production numbers compared with the cat engines (AFAIK). If you end up making a lot of something you end up fixing more of the longevity issues. So given the choice of a duramax or cummins it probably would be better.

When it comes to the S&S/BAE/Seyr design for a truck. From Steyr to S&S the power plant became more powerful and the frame become much stronger and more rigid. The whole vehicle became much heavier. We know for certain the high driveline angles cause early failures in the whole driveline potentially destroying the transmission and engine in the process. The vibrations really shake the whole truck apart. The military updated everything with heavier parts and that seems to have fixed the problems.

 

[dmetalmiki]

IMHO, before spending $100k, you'd be wise to learn 1st-hand.
So, buy an 3-axle S&S/BAE/Oshkosh FMTV for $10k-$15k; drive it for 4 seasons; then decide.

Absolutely roger that advice. That is definitely the way I would go.

 

[98G]

Do you plan to register it in California?

 

[exon111]

Yes. For that reason I can't get a 6x6 and just drive it around, it has to be an "RV" when it's registered

 

[exon111]

Do nearly new recent model M1083s ever come up for sale?

Has anyone seen any very recent model "like new" M1083s come up for sale? How rare is that. I can't find any record of anything newer than 2007 selling, but another member here has a 2010 truck he purchased very inexpensively. Is there a secret source for these?

If something recent and in nice condition like that came for sale, I'd definitely consider it instead of the Brazos for the significant $avings.

 

[98G]

Yes. For that reason I can't get a 6x6 and just drive it around, it has to be an "RV" when it's registered

You're going to have a hard time getting rid of the DPF in California. You can't legally delete it, and California is one of the places that will inspect to make sure it is present at every registration renewal.

This may effect vehicle choice.

 

[exon111]

You're going to have a hard time getting rid of the DPF in California. You can't legally delete it, and California is one of the places that will inspect to make sure it is present at every registration renewal.

This may effect vehicle choice.

Where is this coming from? Diesel vehicles over 14k GVWR are exempt from smog and RVs are also exempt. I know commercial vehicles are a whole different deal. I have a 2006 diesel F-450 Earthroamer and nobody inspects it. I'm unaware of any emissions inspection requirement to import into the state either. You just have to have a licensed VIN verifier to look at the emissions sticker on the truck and mail a form to the DMV affirming they saw the sticker is present. They don't look at anything else nor do they care.