How to measure BIG Voltage

[Artisan]

Can anyone show me a device that will measure 10-20000Volts?

I mean how does the elec company quantify if there is "14,000" Volts in THAT line.

Do they have a like a lil monster Multimeter? Forget calculations, how is

it measured in the field?

 

[m38inmaine]

At my work we use a high voltage probe similar to this Fluke, allows you to use a standard meter to measure high voltage. As a safety measure we never touch the meter or leads while taking a voltage reading.

http://en-us.fluke.com/products/all-accessories/fluke-80k-40.html

 

[m16ty]

Wow. What are you needing to measure that has 20K volts running through it?

When you get much more than 480v, you better be careful or you'll be the bug in a human bug zapper.

Now I do have a electric fence meter that will measure up to 10K volts but that's just for testing electric fences with very low pulsed amperage. The worst it will do if you get bit is make you wet your pants (kind of like a spark plug wire).

 

[tommys2patrick]

once you get above a couple hundred volts or even 20 amps you need to use specific sized C.T.'s and P.T.'s. They make a style that has spring loaded jaws that you clamp around the wire you are trying to measure volts or amps on. That being said you need a number of other safety devices to measure that sort of voltage as well as training. The actual meter can be handheld with small leads running off to the CT or PT you are trying to read. Usually such situations in the field require only that you determine whether the line is energized or not. Utilities generally have fixed installations that tell them how much voltage and amperage is flowing in a particular line. Most "distribution" powerlines in America run about 7600 volt phase to neutral and 12200 volts phase to phase. when you get to the big towers it can be several hundred thousand volts.

If you are actually trying to hand measure that sort of voltage you would likely need a helicopter, a faraday suit and a ten foot metal rod grounded to yourself in addition to any metering equipment.

 

[tommys2patrick]

 

[tommys2patrick]

 

[tommys2patrick]

It might be helpful to note that at those kind of voltages, on a utility system, it is imperative to think about how many amps may be flowing or are capable of flowing in the line you are measuring. Even the ground wire running down the side of a pole have been known to kill people and it is not normally supposed to carry any voltage or amperage. home electronics and even vehicle ignition systems can have very substantial voltages and amperages but utility lines are in a whole other universe.

 

[Floridianson]

I say it is done VERY CAREFULLY. Do I win?

 

[Artisan]

No, not me doing such measurements.

I have become a fan of a man named Gerard Morin.

His common sense could prove fruitful, or at least he might

provoke others to finding a way to produce power other than the

electrical company. If you keep your eyes open you will see a LOT

of people on u-tube replicating his experiments, that in and of itself

speaks volumes.

Here is just one of MANY of his videos. No holds barred, full

disclosure, he shares it all, if he kept it to himself his life WOULD

be in peril. Shutting down the energy barons will make great enemies.

He can't be bought (from what I see anywho) and he has some fairly

deep pocket backers now I believe.

Can you imagine a small looping generator motor set up that "Amplifies" power?

It is the stuff dreams are made of.

Like he says, duplicate what he is doing and see for yourself.

CLICK HERE

The quality replies are much appreciated, Thank U!

 

[tommys2patrick]

Now I see why you want to know how utilities measure such high voltages.

A couple of observations---he has hooked up the utility transformers backwards. he is loading a small field excitation current at 120 volts ( although he never really says)in the first utility transformer with his 4 hp genny. That field excitation current is enough to induce a voltage(backwards) and amperage into the primary(normal) input of the second transformer. Normally these type of transformers require 14400 volts single phase input to the top of the transformer to operate as designed. These are not exactly cheap or easily obtained transformers for the regular joe. Measuring the temperature on one of the insulators seems baffling in terms of its scientific merit in this experiment. Always fun to think outside the box and consider "what if". You can tell he has been experimenting with different arrangements for some time. I like his mix of resistive and inductive loads to prove out his theory. If you have ever wondered how a welder works or what role VARs play in a power system you might want to conduct a few experiments of your own. It might be safer just to watch him though.

 

[marchplumber]

To me, experimenting with "high voltage" is a lot like playing Russian roulette with a semi-automatic pistol. One, just ONE mistake, and you become a new form of potato chip or beef jerky. I would prefer to let the professionals handle it. I don't believe experimenting with "high voltage" should be a garage do-it-yourself project. UNLESS, you no longer care to be in this world.

 

[tommys2patrick]

Agreed that personal safety and that of those around you is or should be a number one priority. I am sure that when folks like Edison, Westinghouse and Tesla were on the leading edge of power development they had concerns about safety. Menlo Park was basically a cobbed together garage. Not every one has what it takes to do this sort of thing. A lot of folks paid with their lives, mostly the early linemen, while they figured out what was safe, what worked and what did not. Nonetheless, power development moved forward even though no rules existed and these early pioneers for the most part had no clue what they were doing. Such is the nature of experiment and development.

 

[tim292stro]

My grandfather who was an engineer for PG&E at one of the Hydroelectric plants told me of guys who were not careful around HV switchgear and nothing more than char and burnt leather boots were left. HV is not funny. Anything over 72V will pass through the insulation value of skin into the electrolytes in your guts, and anything over 10mA will interrupt your heart rhythm. Anything in the 15mA+ range and all of your muscles will contract simultaneously making it impossible to let go of what is trying to kill you.

Warning Graphic, don't watch if you're squeamish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoPPhdXWf_o

 

[marchplumber]

Agreed that personal safety and that of those around you is or should be a number one priority. I am sure that when folks like Edison, Westinghouse and Tesla were on the leading edge of power development they had concerns about safety. Menlo Park was basically a cobbed together garage. Not every one has what it takes to do this sort of thing. A lot of folks paid with their lives, mostly the early linemen, while they figured out what was safe, what worked and what did not. Nonetheless, power development moved forward even though no rules existed and these early pioneers for the most part had no clue what they were doing. Such is the nature of experiment and development.

Many took chances that they did not know about. Some survived, some did not. I give a ton of credit to those that did the early experimenting. For myself, I choose to error on the side a of abundant caution . I've been a contractor in the construction trades for close to thirty years....seen to many "accidents" that the participants had NO intention of being in! Not a fan of becoming a human "pork rind"......just my two cents....

 

[m16ty]

As far as the current "grabbing you" and not being able to let go, lower voltages are actually worse than higher voltages. Higher voltages will blow you away but that gives you a whole host of other problems.

A friend of mine was working on a job site, a excavator knocked over a pole, and the high voltage wire hit him. He survived but it blew both his legs off and mangled the rest of his body. Another local guy that works for a electrical contractor had both his arms blown off from high voltage. I've also seen a couple more with some pretty nasty burns from just the arc flash from high voltage.

 

[The HUlk]

As far as the current "grabbing you" and not being able to let go, lower voltages are actually worse than higher voltages. Higher voltages will blow you away but that gives you a whole host of other problems.

Low voltage around 50-90v can stop your heart. Not many systems use this voltage range and that is why.

120v like in your wall outlet will make you mad or worse under the right conditions like standing in water.

You typicaly remember coming to after being hit with 240v like your electric dryer runs on, if you survive. Not good when working at heights.

480v like at factories leaves you with permanent burn scars at a minimum if you survive which is a toss up.

13KV and higher like in utility transmission lines leave you missing large sections of your body if you're lucky enough to survive, which very few are. Energy at these levels will jump through the air and arc to you. No contact necessary hence the fences around substations and other utility equipment. Wires must have large radiuses at bends or the electric current will have a tendancy to shoot right out of the conductor, especially if there is any kind of path to ground nearby, like your body.

Couldn't pay me enough to service anything above 24VDC.

 

[The HUlk]

If you keep your eyes open you will see a LOT

of people on u-tube replicating his experiments, that in and of itself

speaks volumes.

I see alot of people doing the same silly things on youtube, not sure if this is really an indicator of anything usefull.

Can you imagine a small looping generator motor set up that "Amplifies" power?

It is the stuff dreams are made of.

It sounds more like the stuff fantasies are made of. The laws of thermodynamics state that:

-You can not win. More energy can not be extracted from something than is available from within it. There is no perpetual motion machine. Energy can only be extracted or transfered, not created. When energy is extracted or transfered then something else is depleated as a result.

-You can not break even. There is always a loss of some type when transfering/using energy usually in the form of heat.

Nuclear energy is the most efficient method of energy extraction that I am aware of. But even with atomic energy the fuel rods don't last forever.

Solar works well because the Sun has more stored energy than we could ever dream of using.

With all other forms of energy inefficiencies begin to skyrocket.

 

[tim292stro]

Just like "magnet motors", I've yet to see a demo of something that will output any power and run for more than a minute...

 

[NovacaineFix]

electricity can be your friend or your worst enemy, depending on the circumstances.

I remember working for a company and I was a utility locator, so I knew and worked with the power guys. One day on an emergency call, I responded and there was a water crewman in the trench who hit and damaged a series of conduits and had a pair of large wire cutters in his hands and was just ready to start cutting the wires that were exposed from the broken conduit.
The insulation was not broken, but there were I believe 3 or 4 wires and from memory, about 1/0 gage or so.

Anyway, myself and another utility locator yelled at him not to cut those wires, mainly since he didn't know if they were active or not. I remember telling him, "Always treat a wire as it were live."

Later, the power & gas locator arrived and we told him that the crewman was about to cut the set of wires. After a few minutes, he came back and said something like, "He should be glad you guys told him not to cut those wires, as they were 14,000 volt transmission line." It was undergrounded due to the fact that there was a road there prior and new homes were being developed and the aerial section was removed.

True story!
Anyway, here is a photo I took at the Hoover Dam showing you how to determine how much voltage is on some types of transmission lines:

 

[wheelspinner]

I used to teach a course on assembling and disassembling battery packs that ended up just over 600 VDC each with a few thousand amps available. I believe that the training and testing saved lives in that process. So many people wanted to take careless shortcuts.