Hydraulic Conversion of PTO Winch

[mudguppy]

I am interested in doing something similar. Could you elaborate on where I might find the spreadsheet you mention as well as the specs of the A3 hydraulic motor? ...

The attached spreadsheet was developed by a friend. The blue fields are required user data and the red is calculated data.

Let me know if you have questions, but it's pretty straight forward.


Edit: nevermind - looks like you're not allowed to attach xls. I'm sure there's a good reason for that... [sarcasm]

 

[mudguppy]

Do you have a list of the fittings and the hose lengths that you used?

Well, yes I do have a list of all the fittings that I used. However, that may not be a perfect recipe if different components, locations, and hose runs are used. All fittings and hose was purchased from Discount Hydraulic Hose; the pricing is good, however, most fittings are Chinese-sourced (which affect some peoples parts choice). Nothing special, just NPT or ORB to JIC adapters and respective JIC hose fittings.

I did go the route of all reusable fittings. This route is about twice the overall cost as crimp fittings but is so much easier to fit and adjust without lots of trips to a crimper. So I don't have exact hose lengths; I just ran the hose, marked and cut to fit. The amount of hose that I ordered:

• 30'; 1/2" hyd hose (turned out to be almost 50% more than I used)
• 8'; 3/4" hyd hose
• 10'; 3/4" return hose
• 10'; 1-1/4" suction hose

Hose and fitting total costs were about $400 w/ shipping.

 

[mudguppy]

Soooooooo......

Imagine that... it works!!!

I still never got my last fitting that I ordered (it should be here Tuesday ). I got tired of waiting and went over to Cline's and pieced together an obnoxiously intricate arrangement of steel fittings to get to the suction hose.

With that together, I finished the hose pass-thru hole in the front of the bed and finished mounting the tank. Ran the suction and return hoses and filled the tank with about 2 gallons of fluid. I only put in 2 gal because I was worried that I had the In & Out lines on the pump backward; and I knew that when I did this it would be a huge mess in wasted oil when I pulled the suction line off to switch them...

So I started the truck, built air pressure, engaged the PTO shift, and let the clutch out expecting to hear a screaming / angry pump. But, it turns out I can read directions good enough that it was hooked up correctly.

I cycled the valve w/ the winch disengaged and let the system purge itself of air. I checked the level in the tank and figure that the entire system took about 1 gallon of oil. So I filled the tank to a comfortable level; the total system oil capacity ended up being about 8 1/2 gallons, far less than the 10 that I figured.

So I spooled some cable out in the driveway and engaged the winch. Get this: I even had the motor ports hooked up correctly in regard to valve handle position. Handle back equals line in, handle out equals line out. I was just sure I'd screw that up, too.

Put my pickup in the lot next door and hooked up the winch line. Works great. Pulling power seems almost unaffected by load. Had my pickup in 4wd / Park and just drug it. I know this isn't really a load but I wanted to see how the line speed and engine load would change with resistance. It seemed to be affected very little. Engine rpm linearly affects line speed; max allowable rpm is 2500 limited by the pump. Now I need to find a way to max the winch / system out to check for limitations...

Here are some pics. I took a short video showing some of the testing/playing that I was doing; as soon as Youtube finishes the upload (soooo sloooooowww...) I will post.

Enjoy.

 

[sierra117]

It's looking good can't wait to see this setup in action. Might have to borrow your set for my a3 some of it anyway

 

[mudguppy]

Let's try the video. It's short, I didn't video all of the testing. It's weak (literally), I didn't video the 4 wheel drag for the sake of the yard.

Rather, all I wanted to demonstrate was the process and control over the winch.

Enjoy.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_sPC8r_XX4[/media]

 

[sierra117]

How did you mount the steering wheel, I got a gt wheel myself just taking up space on the shelf.

 

[mudguppy]

Chevy steering column.

 

[HanksDeuce]

I posted the following comment on your Youtube page:
"Drool...... I know what I'm asking Santa Clause for Christmas this year! "

 

[Goose2448]

I was just thinking about this today at work watching the Iron Workers use a Ford L8000 Crane Truck to lift steal beams into place and wondering if anyone had ever tried this. Thanks for sharing, and answering my question.

 

[m16ty]

Goose, You could go with a A-frame hoist off the front if you have a winch. Do a search for "A-frame hoist". There are several threads.

 

[DBLDUECE77]

That looks like a great set up thank you for the pics and part numbers

 

[jesusgatos]

Am working on adding front and rear winches to mah deuce, planning on powering both of them hydraulically. Thanks for posting all this info mudguppy. Very helpful!

Read that you got your parts from Justin Wehring. Is he reproducing these parts? Anywhere else they might be available? Any specs on the adapters, couplers, motor might be helpful, if not, and there's any chance we might be able to find commonly available parts that will fit this application.

You're not running the stock radiator are you? I know I've looked at this before on my stock A2 and there didn't look like there was enough room to install a A3 hyd motor with the stock radiator.

I'm thinking you're correct. Motor diameter is ~4.5"; it is located approximately 7" in from the inside of the frame vertical web with a total width of about 9.25" from the same location. It's hard to figure the top since the OE radiator is no longer there, but there needs to be about 5.25" vertical clearance as taken from the top of the forward edge of the front crossmember.

So what's the final word on this? Will the hydraulic motor clear the A2 radiator or not? Anybody know for sure?

Don't be surprised to find std. #6309 ball bearings there (TM9-3830-206-34P, fig.2, item #6); on a shaft that is subject to over 4-times the maximum recommended axial load for that particular bearing!
Upgrading to same size tapered roller bearings will take care of that... (pics)
To bad I couldn't find the Timken (45x100x25) #376/372 set locally, but with only little machining the (45x100x27.25) #30309 can be fitted as well.

No. They would tell you to replace the bearings if there was any significant runout to be felt... Although it does specify minimum axial end play for the wormshaft: 0.005 in.

G.

Need to go through both of these winches that I just picked up and would love to know more about this. Have you posted details anywhere?

 

[jesusgatos]

Would something like this work?

WINCH TO HYDRAULIC MOTOR ADAPTOR
Brand new, cast iron mount for connecting winch to hydraulic motors with SAE A 2 bolt flange.

SPECIFICATIONS
Winch End 4 hole, 3-1/2" sq.
2-12" dia. pilot
Motor End SAE A 2 bolt,
4-3/16" c/c with 3-1/4" pilot
Total Length 3.95"
Size 5-1/8" x 4-1/2" x 4"

 

[m16ty]

So what's the final word on this? Will the hydraulic motor clear the A2 radiator or not? Anybody know for sure?

I'm almost 100% sure the A3 motor setup won't fit with the stock radiator. There's not a whole lot of room to spare with the stock driveshaft and the hyd motor is much larger. You should be able to remote mount the motor to the truck frame somehow and use a short driveshaft though. Either that or mount the motor beside it somehow and chain drive it.

 

[quickfarms]

Interesting

 

[Gear Head]

This is a great thread for info. I would think this would be a viable option for adding a winch to a non-winch truck as well. Less original parts to find/buy. As a bonus you have hydraulic power now for anything else you may want to use. I'm thinking maybe a service crane or something.

 

[m16ty]

This is a great thread for info. I would think this would be a viable option for adding a winch to a non-winch truck as well. Less original parts to find/buy. As a bonus you have hydraulic power now for anything else you may want to use. I'm thinking maybe a service crane or something.

As I said in a previous post, a stock A3 winch setup won't work with a stock A2 radiator. Also, A3 parts are kind of scarce and are expensive.

If you want a hyd winch, I'd think it would be easier to use the A3 setup as a guide but source all the parts aftermarket. If you have any welding skills it should be no problem to make a mount and the motor can be bought for around $200.

 

[Gear Head]

I read about the radiator clearance issues but as it was stated, the motor could be mounted to the frame rail or something I would think. Fabrication isn't a problem. I have a mill, lathe, welders, torch etc. Even sheet metal brake and shear so I could make about anything I need.


I'm still in the research stage of trying to figure out what model truck would be best for my project. I like the smaller size and miltifuel ability with the duece but noticed the issues of idle time with that engine. There is a few trucks locally I have looked at, both winch and non winch 2.5 ton and a 5 ton WO/W that is in great shape. There is certainly a lot of info on this forum for a guy like me. I think I will have to eventually start my own thread to discuss everyones opinions for a starting point. But this conversion was definately done well and opens up options.

 

[hornetfan]

I'm thinking you're correct. Motor diameter is ~4.5"; it is located approximately 7" in from the inside of the frame vertical web with a total width of about 9.25" from the same location. It's hard to figure the top since the OE radiator is no longer there, but there needs to be about 5.25" vertical clearance as taken from the top of the forward edge of the front crossmember.

If this is confusing, pictures should clarify.

Travis, not only is the work very carefully thought through and executed but your documentation -- with feedback from others -- is incredible. MUCH appreciated by me and many others I'm sure. This is why I'm on SS and deeply appreciate the amount of work and cheerful willingness to help others with similar silly expensive habits by you and several (many) others. Hopefully my M35A3 is getting a serious rework after winter. There may silliness and non-relative junk posts on SS but this level of engineering expertise is **** near priceless.

Clarke - hornetfan
M35A3 stock
1968 ex-MOD Land Rover 109/110 GM 6.5L NA diesel w/ NV-4500

 

[hornetfan]

For sure!!!




The answers should be Yes, The same, and Yes. Mainly, I'm after the 'safer' part; the hydraulic winch cannot be left in either Pay In or Out by error or default. Therefore, the hydraulic conversion is more condusive to safe winch operation by a solo operator.





Not really. You see, I had the option when I swapped in the new transmission as a part of the repower project. There is a gear drive PTO box available for the NV4500 transmission that would perform almost identical to the OE PTO box that was being replaced. However, for the overall cost of the NV4500 PTO transmission and custom driveshaft it would have been similar to the cost of hydraulic conversion. And given the increase in flexibility of operation and safety factor when accomplished by a solo operator it made sense that the hydraulic conversion was the best choice for me.

I feel that the elimination of risk of the winch being able to be left in gear inadvertantly to either property or personal injury worth the increase in cost over keeping the winch mechanically powered. Since I am most often without the aide of 'Soldier B' then I am less likely if not impossibly able to create a scenario in which I am able to injur myself or others.

To me, that is more important than the final 'EXPENSE'.

Think of the scene in the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy" with the "Antichrist" Land Rover Series IIa 88 pulled up into the tree by the winch. When you're going lone ranger you must be CAREFUL lest you leave your bones behind with the truck.