hydraulic power steering kit

[jesusgatos]

I think the pump is a weaker link in the modification chain than the gearbox. The 5ton multifuel pumps seem to be like hens teeth. To do a belt driven would require a double belt pulley and a design that wouldn't limit belt contact on anything else in the system. I just don't think a cheap Saginaw pump off a Chevy has the guts for the application... I may be wrong.

Alternate solution... adapter that would allow a common pump to run in the same location as a 5 Ton... I have no idea how specialized these components might be, or if there is anything still available from the Oliver tractors that also used this engine. It would be expensive to fabricate.

For a gearbox we know we can run the HF 54 and they can be had fairly easily.

Smaller steering wheels?

I've got a 5-ton PS pump that came with the 5-ton multifuel engine that I bought for mah deuce, but I don't see why a modified Saginaw-type pump wouldn't be up to the task.

You (and others also) seem to forget that the stock steering box has a relatively high ratio and combined with the very short pitman arm it still will take a LOT of wheel turning, no matter how much "ram-assist"you got. (unless that stock pitman arm was replaced with a much longer one...?)

Direct and quick response is the ticket... when it comes to avoiding a sudden obstacle or potholes on unpaved roads... IMHO.
With the stock steering gear & p.arm it takes almost 2/3 turns (!) at the wheel to move the draglink 1 inch, starting from center position.

See it in comparison with the HF54 box, below...

G.

Good point G, but that would be pretty easy to solve with a steering quickener. They're cheap and available in a lot of different ratios and it could be coupled directly to the hydraulic servo for easier packaging. Shouldn't really need to worry about the strength of any of these components because the hydraulic ram would be doing all the work, only relying on the steering wheel and related components for directional input (opening/closing hydraulic circuits).

 

[m16ty]

I've had a P/S idea in the back of my mine for awhile. What if you took a hydrostatic setup, tied the hand pump into the steering shaft going to the gearbox via a chain and sprocket or something, and added a assist cylinder to the tie rod. The theory being that the hydro system would act as an assist but you'd still have a mechanical link to the wheels. Kind of a manual/ hydrostatic hybrid.

On one hand I think it just might work but on the other hand I tend to think the mechanical linkage and the hydro system would fight each other. At the very least it would take a lot of figuring to get everything timed together.

Does anybody understand what I'm talking about? If you do, do you think it would work?

 

[m16ty]

Not trying to be argumentative, but there are at least a few other options...

I was just saying that was the cheapest option I've found if you have the skills to fab it up yourself.

 

[jesusgatos]

I've had a P/S idea in the back of my mine for awhile. What if you took a hydrostatic setup, tied the hand pump into the steering shaft going to the gearbox via a chain and sprocket or something, and added a assist cylinder to the tie rod. The theory being that the hydro system would act as an assist but you'd still have a mechanical link to the wheels. Kind of a manual/ hydrostatic hybrid.

On one hand I think it just might work but on the other hand I tend to think the mechanical linkage and the hydro system would fight each other. At the very least it would take a lot of figuring to get everything timed together.

Does anybody understand what I'm talking about? If you do, do you think it would work?

I'm not sure what you're referring to as a hand-pump, but if you're talking about what I would call an orbital valve or a servo, then that's pretty much exactly how the Sweet servos that I posted a link to work, minus the gears and chains. It's a pretty tight little setup, and taking everything into consideration, it's pretty tough to beat.

 

[JasonS]

Still much simpler than adapting another steering box and having to modify or fabricate a custom pitman arm, draglink, etc. When it's all said and done, one of those servos would direct hydraulic fluid to an axle-mounted ram just like any power-steering box that's been tapped for ram-assist ports. Should provide all the power of a full-hydro system while maintaining a mechanical steering linkage, which I know some people are really concerned about. Like I mentioned, the only disadvantage I see is in applications where the steering linkage limits suspension performance, but that's way beyond the scope of what most deuce owners are doing with their trucks. Telling you guys, I think that's the hot ticket...

There are CAD dwgs for the fame stiffener which make that component's fabrication trivial. You can use the frame stiffener and a hand drill to mod the frame. The 8.5" pitman arm on the 4-line boxes works fine, and the draglink is a simple sleeve that anyone with a lathe can make. Here are the HF54-unique parts costs:

Frame stiffener machined $100 (local machine shop)
Drag link sleeve $100 (local machine shop)
New HF54 $250 (Vanderhaags)
Tie rod ends $50 (ebay)
Gamma goat column $30 (Saturn)
Steering shaft parts $150 (local ag dealer)

There are miscellaneous hoses, bolts/nuts (NAPA), etc too but you'll have that with any hydraulic system.

I don't see how anything short of a complete kit could be any easier and the kits are available cost several $k.

 

[JasonS]

I know a guy put one of the saginaw boxes on that was tapped for an assist ram and has run 1400s on a bobber. The 5ton multi pumps are everywhere, its just finding the gear and mounting palte that are the issues.

Sure, but they are out there and only a phone call away. The acquisition cost may not be cheap but they are an EASY solution where there isn't much room for a belt driven pump.

 

[gringeltaube]

Good point G, but that would be pretty easy to solve with a steering quickener. They're cheap and available in a lot of different ratios and it could be coupled directly to the hydraulic servo for easier packaging. Shouldn't really need to worry about the strength of any of these components because the hydraulic ram would be doing all the work, only relying on the steering wheel and related components for directional input (opening/closing hydraulic circuits).

Good point for you! Although, not sure if adding such had been considered by some of the "kit" manufacturers, until now...

G.

 

[m16ty]

I'm not sure what you're referring to as a hand-pump, but if you're talking about what I would call an orbital valve or a servo, then that's pretty much exactly how the Sweet servos that I posted a link to work, minus the gears and chains. It's a pretty tight little setup, and taking everything into consideration, it's pretty tough to beat.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. They are commonly called "hand pumps" by the hydrostatic steering manufacturers. Mainly because you are actually pumping oil when you turn the wheel. With the engine running the "hand pump" is assisted by the hyd pump but you can pump the oil by hand with the engine not running (it's very hard though).

 

[gringeltaube]

Sure, but they are out there and only a phone call away. The acquisition cost may not be cheap but they are an EASY solution where there isn't much room for a belt driven pump.

Agreed on that!

Also regarding cost: a new pump (source: "buy it now"...) @ $150; adapter (TNJMurray) @ $48; gear (TNJMurray) @ $90 = $288. Say $300 if we added nut & washer.... not that bad for being specific parts, I guess??




(Hope they don't rise their prices now if they see this posted....)

G.

 

[gimpyrobb]

(Hope they don't rise their prices now if they see this posted....)

G.

We will blame YOU and show up with pitchforks!

 

[gringeltaube]

We will blame YOU and show up with pitchforks!

Oh man, what have I done; guess I better delete that post ... (now that YOU know)...?

G.

 

[jesusgatos]

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. They are commonly called "hand pumps" by the hydrostatic steering manufacturers. Mainly because you are actually pumping oil when you turn the wheel. With the engine running the "hand pump" is assisted by the hyd pump but you can pump the oil by hand with the engine not running (it's very hard though).

Sorry, I don't actually know much about hydraulic systems or components or terminology. Thanks for clarifying. So something like those Sweet servos is pretty much what you were suggesting, but in a more compact package, right? And obviously also eliminates any potential for the mechanical and hydraulic systems to fight each other.

 

[dozer1]

opcorn:I love a good deuce power steering thread

 

[m16ty]

So something like those Sweet servos is pretty much what you were suggesting, but in a more compact package, right? And obviously also eliminates any potential for the mechanical and hydraulic systems to fight each other.

Agreed.

The only reason I was even thinking about a hydrostatic "hybrid" system is I have several hydrostatic setups lying around off of farm and construction equipment.

 

[spicergear]

Why are they referring to the 939 series trucks?? I can already turn my 1400x20's with one finger.

Anyone? Why are they talking about the 939 trucks? Are they getting parts there? It sorta sounds like they're spamming the add.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I didn't catch who was referring to the 939s. Was it in the OPs link?

 

[sewerzuk]

... adapter that would allow a common pump to run in the same location as a 5 Ton...

When I installed the 5 ton pump in my truck, it appeared that it was just a standard Vickers SAE-A hydraulic pump. A person could buy the 5 ton setup (just to get the timing gear adapter) and then swap whatever pump he wanted on there. With some shroud trimming, I believe that pumps could even be "stacked" for separate hydraulic systems.

 

[JasonS]

I think the pump is a weaker link in the modification chain than the gearbox. The 5ton multifuel pumps seem to be like hens teeth. To do a belt driven would require a double belt pulley and a design that wouldn't limit belt contact on anything else in the system. I just don't think a cheap Saginaw pump off a Chevy has the guts for the application... I may be wrong.

Alternate solution... adapter that would allow a common pump to run in the same location as a 5 Ton... I have no idea how specialized these components might be, or if there is anything still available from the Oliver tractors that also used this engine. It would be expensive to fabricate.

For a gearbox we know we can run the HF 54 and they can be had fairly easily.

Smaller steering wheels?

Why would you try to fit a "common" pump to the multi adapter when you can go a populer online auction site and get one for $150?????????

 

[jesusgatos]

Well maybe like the air compressors I found that are a direct fit, but put out 15CFM, it might be advantageous to use a different pump in the stock location if you have hydraulic systems that have specific requirements that the stock pump doesn't meet.

Personally, I was especially interested in the comment sewerzuk made about stacking pumps because I'm going to be running full-hydro steering and ideally, would like to keep that system on it's own circuit. Also have two winches that I'm going to convert to hydro and some other hydro-powered accessories that I'm planning on installing on mah deuce, and so a second pump might be just the ticket.

 

[Kohburn]

Sorry, what's that about a longer steering link?

sorry, i meant pitman arm