I found a V8 Deuse

[hndrsonj]

The transfer case should not be air shift.

 

[Ruppster]

That's definitely a Mopar big block. It's hard to say from the pics which one it is. If it's a raised deck (RB) big block it will have a flat machined surface about 2" square right behind the water pump tot he drivers side, even with the intake mounting surface that will be stamped with the size and other information. The common RB series engines are the 413, 426(wedge and Hemi) and 440. If it's a B-series or low deck big block, the machined surface I mentioned for the RB series will not exist. Instead the information will be stamped just to the driver's side of the distributor, sort of behind it on a pad machined even with the passenger side head surface. Common B-series low deck big block engines are the 350, 361, 383 and 400.

The heads are a dead giveaway on a Chrysler industrial engine versus a regular Mopar engine. The front ends of the heads connect to the water pump housing and the spark plugs are located above the exhaust manifold (like a small block Mopar engine). The big block industrial engines have the distributor up front like a normal Mopar big block and only came in 2 sizes, a 361 and a 413. The easiest way to tell the two apart is by the flat machined surface behind the water pump. This pad will only be on the 413. The trick is the higher water pump used on these engines make it harder to see this area clearly.

Correction: I didn't word one sentence too well. My comment about the big block industrial engines coming in only 2 sizes was aimed at the engines used in medium and heavy duty Dodge trucks from the 60's and 70's. While Chrysler made industrial engines in a wide range of sizes when it came to the medium and heavy duty trucks (C and D series 400-1000) the only Mopar big blocks that were used were the 361 and 413 (Dodge did use a couple of larger gas engines but they were made by another company). Dodge did use 318's in the mid range trucks but that is a small block and was not what my comments were about. Thanks Elwenil for catching my error.

If the water pump housing mounts directly to the front of the heads, it's most likely a RB series industrial engine. These things are easy to identify if you know what to look for but unfortunately none of the pics clearly show these identifying areas. The intake and carb is making me want to say it's a low deck B-series engine, but some of the industrial RB engines did come with small 2BBL carbs so it could still be a RB engine. The 413 and 440 industrial engines were in production through the '78 model year, the 361 and 400 versions were dropped much earlier.

Could be either a 361 B or 413 RB engine. Both engines used the same heads and water pump housing. The baseline 413 industrial engines used in trucks came with a 2 barrel carb (called a 413-2 engine). The top of the line 413 (called a 413-3) came with a 4 barrel carb. The industrial engines used in RV's had 4 barrel carbs. All industrial 361 engines used in Dodge trucks had a 2 barrel carb. it was the same size (500 cfm) as the carb used on the 2 barrel 413's but had different sized jets. The 361 was used to power the V-100 armored car but it came with a 4 barrel carb. Both the 361 and 413 were used in Dodge heavy duty trucks all the way up till 1977 when Dodge stopped producing the D700/D800 series of trucks and dropped out of the commercial truck market.

As far as a 440 industrial engine from what I understand they were only used in RV's and had heads that looked more like a normal big block head. They had an extra cooling passage to help keep the spark plug area cooling under heavy loads.

One nice thing with the 361/413 industrial engines used in the 60's and 70's C and D series Dodges is the use of a 13 to 14 inch hydraulic clutch. The catch is the bellhousing was used to mound the engine and tranny combo in place (along with a mount at the front of the engine). And many of the heavy duty trucks in the 700 to 800 range had some strong 5 speed transmissions (but they were not overdrives, fifth gear was direct like the gas powered deuces). The top line C series trucks could even be ordered with a 10 speed Roadranger RT610 transmission behind a 413.

On another note while a regular Mopar intake for a 413/426W/440 will bolt on to an industrial 413 engine it will not work properly as the 361/413 industrial engines have coolant flowing through them under the carb instead of an exhaust cross-over. There is a small metal tube that connects the right side of the intake manifold from under the carb to the back of the water pump on 361/413 industrial intake manifolds. They even used a different intake manifold gasket.

Ruppster

 

[Elwenil]

You are mostly correct. Mopar industrial and marine engines were offered in all of the common sizes, both small block and big block. The 360, 361, 413 and 440 were the most common. Not all industrial engines came with the odd water pump housing and heads though most of the medium truck engines apparently did. Some engines were just low compression heavy duty versions of regular production engines with few changes from the normal car and truck engine. I've enjoyed your page on Dodge medium and heavy trucks and the brochures are especially interesting but with Mopars, nothing was ever set in stone and there are a lot of unusual things out there.

 

[Ruppster]

You are mostly correct. Mopar industrial and marine engines were offered in all of the common sizes, both small block and big block. The 360, 361, 413 and 440 were the most common.

Sorry, I didn't word one of my sentences too well. Thanks for catching that error. And you are correct that Chrysler industrial engines came in a wide range of sizes. I was focusing on the big block based engines that were used in the heavy duty trucks but wasn't too clear on that. Dodge did use the 383, 400, and 440 in trucks but it was in the 300 series (1 ton) and lower. I have not seen anything in all my manuals that show that Dodge used anything other then a 361 or 413 block in a big block industrial engine in any C or D series truck larger then a 300 (1 ton) from 1960 to 1977. The common use of the 440 industrial engine in a Dodge chassis was those used for RV's though they may have been used in a lot of other things not Dodge truck related.

Not all industrial engines came with the odd water pump housing and heads though most of the medium truck engines apparently did.

You are correct that not all Chrysler industrial engines came with the odd water pump. My comment was aimed at 361/413 engines used in Dodge trucks. On the industrial big block engines that Dodge used in their medium and heavy duty trucks I have never seen a 361 or 413 without it or the different heads meant to be used in conjunction with the higher water pump. I may be wrong but out of all my manuals I have not come across the use of anything other then the high water pump and heads on 361 and 413 powered Dodge trucks.

Some engines were just low compression heavy duty versions of regular production engines with few changes from the normal car and truck engine. I've enjoyed your page on Dodge medium and heavy trucks and the brochures are especially interesting but with Mopars, nothing was ever set in stone and there are a lot of unusual things out there.

The 318 commercial engines used in the medium duty Dodges were like that. There was only some minor differencies between a car engine and the industrial version. And yes, Dodge did a lot of unusual things over the years but most of their industrial gas engines pretty much stayed the same in regards to the use of them in trucks.

Glad you liked my web site. At least someone reads it. Need to buy more brochures off eBay and update it. Just bought a high cab Dodge CN900 with a Detroit Diesel 318 8v71 and a 13 speed tranny and need to add that to the web site too. Was supposed to be driving it back from Virginia today but a family emergency caused us to come back from vacation a few days early.

Ruppster

 

[Smashville]

it is a 361 dodge v8 big block
4 bolts on valve cover means 361
no 413 426 or 440 ever came with a 2bbl carbatooter
so it is 361

 

[Smashville]

also odd dodge engine is 350 big block but this is 361

 

[Billy Bobbed]

Here is the last 2 engine pictures I have,hope it helps.On the driver side of the engine is an engine tag.It looks like the one on my multifuel engine.The one in the picture is on the pss.side of the engine.I tried to read them but I cant get close enough to see what it says.I was going to go there saturday to pull the t-case but i dont think i want the t-case now.I would like to have another air shift t-case.I wish someone would by the whole truck and put it back together again.I couldnt guess what this truck cost when it was built.There cant be that many left in this shape,if any are left.

 

[Elwenil]

it is a 361 dodge v8 big block
4 bolts on valve cover means 361
no 413 426 or 440 ever came with a 2bbl carbatooter
so it is 361

I would disagree. I have seen several RB engines with 2BBL carbs. [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]007 is the fender tag code for a 413 2BBL engine in '64, [/FONT]082 is the code for a 426 2BBL engine in '64 and '65. Also, early '60s RB engines did come with 4 bolt valve covers. FelPro still carries the gaskets for them. The original Max Wedge engines had 4 bolt valve covers.

 

[Elwenil]

Billy Bobbed, if you can check for the ID pad on one of the two areas labeled in the pic below, you will be able to positively ID that engine.

(Pic swiped from Year One Inc.)

 

[Billy Bobbed]

I wish someone would save this truck before it gets scrapted.

 

[Dodge man]

Also, early '60s RB engines did come with 4 bolt valve covers. FelPro still carries the gaskets for them. The original Max Wedge engines had 4 bolt valve covers.

FWIW. Maybe the EARLY Max Wedge engines came with 4 bolt valve covers but not all of them did. I have a set of MW valve covers on my '70 440 pak right now and they're 6 bolt and fit fine. I use those on my car because they had the brackets where I wanted them. IIRC they came off of a '64 MW.

 

[alphadeltaromeo]

Hey Hoosier Boy......it's spelled D-E-U-C-E !!!!

 

[Rockcrusher]

i have one of the gmc versions with the same looking motor had a 4 speed behind it with a pto an the transfercase has the pto for the winch that used to be there

 

[Elwenil]

FWIW. Maybe the EARLY Max Wedge engines came with 4 bolt valve covers but not all of them did. I have a set of MW valve covers on my '70 440 pak right now and they're 6 bolt and fit fine. I use those on my car because they had the brackets where I wanted them. IIRC they came off of a '64 MW.

Perhaps, but I would hazard to say that most Max Wedge engines had 4 bolt valve covers. The originals did for sure and I have seen several Stage III 426 engines that still use the 4 bolt covers.

 

[Dodge man]

Hey Lanty. Just noticed that you're in Covington. I used to live in Roanoke. In fact that's where my MW parts and many of my Dodges came from. Is Covington Dodge still around? Do they still have that '69 Daytona in their showroom? I meet the owner one time and he told us to come up and help ourselves to their collection of old Mopar manuals, brochures, etc in their attic. We did and it was a treasure trove!

 

[Elwenil]

That was Dressler Motors here in town. I worked for them for many years. I was the Parts Manager in the early to mid '90s for the Dressler family. It was my nagging that got the owners son and then Dealer Principal to pull the Daytona down from storage upstairs and let me clean it up and put it in the showroom and put it in the local car show. It took me 11 hours to clean the Daytona up but it was worth it. It was only one of two untitled Daytonas in existance and the only one still in the hands of a factory Dodge dealer and the one with the lowest miles at just over 6,400. The car was not perfect though as it had been wrecked by the dealers son and nephew when they took it out drinking in the early '70s. It was repainted and did not have the original set of rims that came with the car but was otherwise an original survivor with the 440 and 727.

We put it down in the showroom with the '92 Viper Roadster and later added the '96 Viper GTS Coupe to the collection. After I left the dealership business went downhill pretty bad and they ran into a little trouble keeping the dealership in Chrysler's good graces. Eventually they filed for bankruptcy and the Daytona, both Vipers, the '58 dodge Royal, a ;64 Fury and several other old cars that were stored upstairs. The dealership itself was bought out by a couple business partners from Florida and I went back to work in parts for them around 2005 after it had all been sold off. Most of the stuff was still upstairs as far as the parts and manuals and the new owner let me, the Dressler's and a few other people pick through what we wanted and a lot of stuff was just sold in bulk deals with a few parts places. Any part that was still accepted by Mopar was sent back on a return that filled a 48' semi trailer and took me about 5 months to put together. I don't know where the Daytona went after it was sold. I was told it brought about $116k when it sold but I have no way to confirm that. Eventually the dealership was bought again by the owners of the local GM dealership and I had some rather loud and profane disagreements with some of their management so I was fired. I still have some connections there and I hope that if the dealership folds again that I will be able to get some of the Parts Manuals.

 

[Dodge man]

Dressler. Yes that was the name. I couldn't remember it. I think the last time I was there was in '81. A sad ending to what was once a fine dealership! I helped clean out another Mopar dealership in Va and sent all the old parts back to Chrysler. What I wouldn't give for some of those parts now!! Used to go in there and they had 426 Hemi parts in stock!

The Plymouth/Dodge dealership in the town that I grew up in also had an original Daytona in their showroom. At least up until 1976. I was never in there after that and I have no idea what became of it but the dealership in long gone.

Do you remember the name of the Mopar dealership that was in Lynchburg in the '70s? I've forgotten the name but I'd like to find out if I could. That's where my Superbird came from.

 

[Elwenil]

I asked around a bit and so far no one remembers the name of the dealership in Lynchburg. If I can find out I'll post it up.

 

[Gunfreak25]

I wonder what became of that old truck? I have a 455 Olds in my M220 so I have a soft spot for other deuce's with BB gassers in them. By the way, that roscommonequipment page is pretty neat. While I don't think all MV's should be cut up, the forestry services needed them to do tough jobs and they always did good clean conversions and modifications. They had to as the trucks needed to be reliable and dependable. Check out their website and look at their projects page. Lots of info on fabricating heavy duty hard tops for the M35's, older GMC's, brushguards, etc. They just recently updated their site too.

 

[spicergear]

The only benefit the REB Kit would have over an air shift case would be that IF you had to pop start the truck and the air bled down, you could slap in 6 wheel so you wouldn't drag the tandems. REB Kits were sprag eliminitor kits plain and simple. Work great, I love the one I have. Found an old township truck that had the frame nearly rusted in two and grabbed the entire truck and parted it out. I would snag this whole rig if it were closer. Looks like all the sheetmetal is in real good shape. Too bad it has that boat anchor powering it. Sorry Lanty, had to... Another thing would be that it no doubt a direct drive tranny so that engine would still be humming at 60mph or more...