Identify this German WWII vehicle

[Al Harvey]

So I was flipping through on of the photo albums we have for our future museum and came across these pictures again. I've looked at them many times but have not been able to identify what it is. A couple of the guys seem to be from a panzer crew based on their berets. I will try and remember to look at the papers of the original owner of the album to get a better idea of the time frame but I'm guessing 1939-1941ish based on other pics. Has anyone seen on of these before?

 

[Wolfen]

opcorn:

 

[cbear]

The angled grill slates make me want to say Citroen, buy I have no idea.

 

[Al Harvey]

I was intrigued from the first time I saw it. It doesn't appear to be very tall. Maybe 6ft total when looking at the soldiers standing next to it. Since most WWII soldiers weren't very tall, when you collect uniforms from WWII you notice these things. lol

 

[73m819]

Also looks it could be Opel based .

 

[CARNAC]

Actually you have an anti-tank gun and a car. The gun is a 37mm PaK 35/36. You are correct that the black uniforms and berets are Panzertruppen.

I'm having issues seeing the car very well.

 

[Al Harvey]

The 37mm Pak also helps a lil with the size of the car, except it's on an incline. I've looked through the rest of the album and haven't seen any other pictures of it. Later I'll try and search through it again and see if I can see on in the background of another picture.

I was trying to identify the flag on the car and the only two possible flags that I've come across would be a Military Commander-in-Chief of an occupied territory or a Military Governor of an occupied territory. It will be a couple weeks but I'll try and get the pictures under a digital microscope and see if I can get any markings off of them. Maybe help narrow the search down a lil, maybe.

 

[Another Ahab]

Actually you have an anti-tank gun and a car. The gun is a 37mm PaK 35/36. You are correct that the black uniforms and berets are Panzertruppen.

I'm having issues seeing the car very well.

 

[CARNAC]

The berets narrow it to between 15 Oct 1935 to 15 Jan 1941 but then again the uniforms led us to believe that as it was.

The wear of the gas mask canister on the chest makes me think pre-Sep'39 but that is an assumption not based on actual fact.

I recall reading somewhere before that pre-war German vehicles had a (what I'll call) flag holder on the front drivers side fender. You see them on the early war SdKfz232 and 222 series armored cars a lot. I believe (again, not based on fact) the flag is a training flag to denote which side the vehicle belongs to very similar to how the US forces use to use red and blue flags and armbands to denote sides.

The vehicle appears to be a softskin sedan with a canvas 'vismod' to make it look like an armored car. It is not a Kfz13 or 14. I suspect it may potentially be a Type 170V or Opel Olympia but I would have to do some more research and I'd really like to have a better picture. Most likely one of your fellow Volunteer State residents could tell in a nano-second. David Doyle has authored several books on this type of stuff.

 

[cbear]

I can't read cyrillic, but check this out.
http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/armored_cars/germany/adler.htm

google translation

[url]http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/armored_cars/germany/adler.htm&prev=search

[/URL]

 

[CARNAC]

Great work! A jolly good show Cbear.

 

[Another Ahab]

I can't read cyrillic, but check this out.

Great work! A jolly good show Cbear.

Excellent G2. Stellar!

 

[Another Ahab]

The berets narrow it to between 15 Oct 1935 to 15 Jan 1941 but then again the uniforms led us to believe that as it was.

The wear of the gas mask canister on the chest makes me think pre-Sep'39 but that is an assumption not based on actual fact.

CARNAC; you know your stuff:

- Think there's any chance this is Condor Legion activity in Spain?

I'm thinking the tile roof suggests something Mediterranean going on. What do you think?

 

[CARNAC]

Highly doubt it. Tile roofs are common in Germany also.

 

[Another Ahab]

Highly doubt it. Tile roofs are common in Germany also.

Well, of course, you're right. I mean, shoot: you're CARNAC!

And thinking about it now, that is a fairly steep roof pitch:

- likely more for shedding snow (like in Germany), moreso than anything you'd likably run across on the plains of Spain.

Once again, you nailed it!

 

[Al Harvey]

Awesome. Thank you CARNAC and cbear!!! I've done all kind of searching and never came across another picture like it. Now I have a link. Oh can CARNAC you were correct with it being pre-39. I did the one thing I try to never do, took the picture out of the album. On the back it was hand dated 1935. Once I get the location translated I will then begin my search on training in the area to be able to explain the photo better. So far, from what I've gathered based on his Wehrpass (Service Book), the gentleman that owned this album was 25 years old at the time of the photo and this was his initial training in the Army. After 1935 he has no military stamps until 1941, I've got to get the book up to the computer to translate some more of it. That and I really need to finish learning German at some point. lol

Part of my goal with the museum is to show things from soldiers point of view on every side of the war. As a veteran I find it interesting to see the average soldier being a soldier just like we are today. I also am a huge believer in if we don't learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it, so I want people to see things from different points of view then just what is in the text books. Hopefully that makes sense.

Once again Thank You for the input, information, and the link!!!!!!!

 

[Pohl]

It is a Adler passenger car with a sheet metal skin for use as a mock armoured car. They were used by the Reichswehr during the interwar period and, based on the photo, perhaps the early Wehrmacht, circa 1933. The Werner Oswald book documents it. The book title is an impressive Kraftfahrzeuge und Panzer der Reichswehr, Wehrmacht und Bundeswehr.

 

[Another Ahab]

Hey, Pohl, welcome.

 

[Assel]

from quick research on german sites its a armored infantry combat vehicle based on the "Adler Standart 6" model. mostly used for training maybe. http://static1.carsablanca.de/files/medias/filename/Standard_6_0771_big.jpg

 

[Tow4]

I was thinking it's and armored VW Thing.