In Tank Pump not lifting fuel out of tank

[jsthnt@gmail.com]

I have been having trouble with my feul system lately. A week or so ago General Granite sputtered a died, I was able to limp home and died as I pulled into the driveway. I was able to start back up and let it cool down. I had to work the next day so I was going to wait tell I got off work to tear into it. Started right up in the morning and went to work. When I went to go home to work on it it died when I was letting it warm up and it hasn't stayed running since. I replaced the filters and pulled the in tank pump. The bottom of the pump had fallen off, but it spun. I had another pump that spun but would not pump fuel out of the top, so I stole the bottom off of it. When I put it back in the tank it still would not pump out of the top. I replaced the hoses and blew threw them to make sure they were clear, and still nothing. I will do more investigation today, but any suggestions would be great. Thanks for the help.

 

[RAYZER]

There are spacer plates inside the pump foot, when the foot plate falls off, the internal plates fall out into the bottom of the tank, without the plates the pump no pump.
This happened to me once, when I put all the pieces back together I peened the housing so it couldn't fall apart again, good as new!

 

[jsthnt@gmail.com]

I put all I could find back into it. I could not find the bottom plate so some of the other spacers could have been in the same place as the bottom plate. The pump that I took the bottom plate off of did not have spacers, it was one solid piece. I drained the tank last night, and I will look for the pieces today. I will also do some testing in a bucket to see what I can come up with. The tank had lots of rust in it so I will either put my old tank back on or flush this one, which ever tank looks better.

 

[clinto]

If the electric motor runs and all the spacers are in the bottom like they should be, the pump should work. These are amazingly resilient pumps. My '87 A2C had a disgusting, sludged up tank, it was awful. I had the pump vatted along with the tank and pump still works. I've had it in the truck almost 2 years now.

 

[jwaller]

My pump did the same thing, find all the shims and put it back together. It will work. This time drill thru the lip and safety wire it together so it can't happen again.

 

[RedbeardTheZombieHunter]

Of course if all else fails, the pumps are plentiful on that auction website everyone around here seems to despise for $50 each. I hope The General has a speedy recovery and he's up and growling again in no time! The Corporal is coming along fairly well. I haven't been able to afford to get the drive shaft re-done or an alternator yet, but I've made a few other improvements like leather upholstery on the original seats, a small solar array on the roof to trickle-charge my batteries when the sun is out, and a fairly decent stereo and speakers so I get to listen to a little more than the whistler turbo. lol

 

[jsthnt@gmail.com]

I finished draining my tank today. I found 2 more shims and 2 bottoms. So I do not know how many shims need to go into the pump that I know lost the bottom. I thought by the way that it looked that I had all of them already, but I put another one in. Tested the pump in a bucket of water and it pumped very well. So I drilled a couple of holes in the side and put a couple of rivets in to make sure that this does not happen again. I flushed the tank several time and got most of the rust out. I had about half a gallon of vinegar here so I put that in to sit over night to see if I can get the rest to dissolve tonight. I will finish flushing it tomorrow and let the 100 degree temp dry it out tomorrow. Then I will see if I have fixed all the problems or if I have to dig more.

 

[rosco]

I had smiliar problems. I found the magnetic drive between the motor, and pump body was faulty. Just because they look good, sound good, doesn't mean they are dependable. I replace the pump. and it was a new world. A new $50 pump, is cheap, compared to the heartburn roadside repairs cause.

 

[Diecorpse]

Well I hope you get your truck going again! Let me know if you do. I know I am going to be working on mine tomorrow. I'm going to get what I need and hopefully by the end of thos month all is good. If so, maybe we might have to go cruising around.

 

[orren]

How do you guys ever get the pump out? I took all the screws out, etc. but it just won't lift
out. Is it possible the thing was JB Welded in? There is something built up all around the
outer edge of the top flange but not on top of it and I do not know if this is original or not.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Orren

 

[clinto]

How do you guys ever get the pump out? I took all the screws out, etc. but it just won't lift
out. Is it possible the thing was JB Welded in? There is something built up all around the
outer edge of the top flange but not on top of it and I do not know if this is original or not.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Orren

I've had several that had been glued/RTV'd to the tank.

Pull harder.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

Hey I've got a couple of questions right quick.
1) What type of rubber line is supposed to be in the tank from the pump? Somehow I don't think the 1/2 in bulk fuel hose is correct, and I can't find the threads talking about the right hoses.

2) How far from the bottom of the tank is the pickup supposed to be? TM 9-2320-209-20-3-1 doesn't specify, from my measurements it looks like I can drop it 1 more set of holes to cure my running issues at 1/4 tank, but it may be sitting on the floor of the tank. Is this ok? Or would a better coure of action be to drill a set of holes at half way to give it some gap from the bottom?

3) Is it ok to rtv the pump back down or is the gasket a shim?

4) I need to replace the hold down bolts, has anyone had good luck replacing them with allen head screws? I can get grade 8 allen screws for this real cheap and then mabey the threads won't deform like the ones I pulled out, and it'll be easier to get tightend down.

Thanks!

 

[clinto]

Hey I've got a couple of questions right quick.

1. Has to be hose rated for immersion in diesel. Info here: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?69184-Check-your-fuel-pump!!!

2. Pretty fair space, but I don't know what the TM calls for. The military spaced the pickup up a bit so contaminants/debris could get in the tank and not clog it. I would not let the pickup touch the floor and for me, I like the safety aspect of the pickup being raised up. Fuel pumps are cooled and lubricated by being immersed in fuel, so I don't run tanks empty, nor should you.

3. I think RTV (as long as it's diesel rated) would be fine.

4. No experience with this.

Additional info covering points 2 and 4 can be found here: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?65291-WMO-and-Surging

 

[Ford Mechanic]

Thanks clinto!

Those threads had my answers,
1) Like you said immersion rated 7/16 hose was best

2) 15.1 inches from the top of the pump assy, according to some members that found it in the TM. I'd like to know where they found it cause I couldn't. Mine is a 1/2 inch too short by this. I wasn't trying to run it empty, just tired of it starving for fuel as soon as it hit 1/4 tank.

3) I've got grey diesil rated rtv that I had in mind for it.

4) Looks like a common upgrade from the phillips screws!

Thanks again, I tried using the search to no avail.

 

[clinto]

Thanks again, I tried using the search to no avail.

You can thank me when you come to the rally in October! I accept frosty adult beverages.

 

[orren]

I've had several that had been glued/RTV'd to the tank.

Pull harder.

Clinto:

Tried that. Don't want to bust something since the pump is working but want to
to a little PM since PSI is a little low.

Do you think heating it up with a hot air blower would help?

Thanks,
Orren

 

[Ford Mechanic]

Clinto:

Tried that. Don't want to bust something since the pump is working but want to
to a little PM since PSI is a little low.

Do you think heating it up with a hot air blower would help?

Thanks,
Orren

No, most rtv's are heat resistant. Can you tell what color the rtv is? Black or red is normally fairly low strength. Grey on the other hand..... Is very high strength. Prying on it shouldn't damage it, the fuel pump flange is 1/8th inch thick steel. A hammer and a flat blade screwdriver is what I use removing rtv'd parts. I'm going to use the grey rtv to put mine back in with. I always use grey here at work, as long as the surface was cleaned of oil properly it'll never leak again. Ford specs it for lot's of stuff, the worst being Focus transmission pan gaskets You'll get oil all over you and then you'll need to reshape the pan with a hammer before reinstalling it cause it gets bent all out of shape breaking it loose.

 

[jsthnt@gmail.com]

Just to help close the thread. I finished flushing the tank, and got about 1/16 cup of rust out of the bottom. I put a couple of strong magnets in the tank to catch any that I misted. Put everything back together and added some fuel, flipped the switch and nothing. I forgot to plug the pump in. plugged the pump in and it fired right up. I have not driven it far enough to see if this fixed the high egt's, but it runs. Thanks for all the help.

 

[jsthnt@gmail.com]

I drove it for several miles tonight. The excessively high egt's were gone, but I am still not able to get it over 1800 rpm in 4th and 5th. I have not turned up the fuel since I added the turbo to this once non turbo engine. I will try and get a new air filter before I turn up the fuel.