Increasing the fording capabilites of the Deuce AND reducing the fording PMCS

[TehTDK]

Just another of my random thoughts today. But is there some way to affordably make a Deuce more capable at fording without flooding the axles etc?. And at the same time cut down on all the PMCS that you will inadvertantly have to do with the stock axles, seals etc?.

I don't own a Deuce yet but is regularly floating around ideas in my head as to what to do when/if I get one. I would ideally like to take it to some of the military field training areas and drive around and let it stretch its legs. Naturally with approval and acceptance from the preciding military bases, ie so that they know I am out there. But actually doing any fording etc is gonna be a let down if I have to "more or less" tear the truck down every time to clean axle seals etc. So I was debating whether a change of axles, and axle housings might actually leverage this issue and mean I get better and more tight seals.

Naturally I will need to wash down the truck etc after going fording or mudding to at least keep it somewhat nice and tidy and as such the wheels etc would get washed down. But is this a lesson in futility or is something worth pursuing, and has others potentially tried something like this on their trucks?

 

[doghead]

Even a submarine requires extensive maintenance after use.

The simple answer is, no.

 

[NDT]

The DUKW guys that spend years on end driving in and out of water have found that pressurizing the axles with about 2 psi will keep the water out of the axles.

 

[gringeltaube]

A lot has been written - and done - already...
Here are some threads:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?87152-Home-Made-Fording-Kit
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?45000-more-questions-amp-ideas-related-to-fording-kits


G.

 

[quickfarms]

Are you talking fording or swimming?

Clean fresh, dirty fresh or salt water.

It makes a big difference

 

[59apache]

you may keep the water and mud out of the axle housings, but not of the brakes....

 

[cranetruck]

Ford more or less did it for the 1969 m656/xm757 trucks. Examples of the extensive pressurization shown below, which included the sealed brake drums, transfer case, transmission, engine, even door seals and more. The brake drums were fitted with inspection holes to determine if any maintenance would be required.


Truck is ready for fording/swimming in less than 5 minutes. There was no limit to the duration of the "dip" (about 15 minutes for the deuce with deep fording equipment).

 

[TehTDK]

I better explain in more detail why I am asking . I took offroad qualification for the danish army jeep back in March while some of my fellow soldiers were taking the same qualifications on the smaller Man trucks. But the jeep I was driving as well as the Man trucks was burried well over their axles and hubs and upon return we went through their checklist. That checklist in particular didn't and doesn't require that the axles etc are taken apart etc. A "mere" wash down and visual inspection is all it takes.

And Doghead, I know a submarine needs maintenance, as does a Deuce, I am not daft . However that doesn't explain why you halfway need to take the truck apart every time it just as much as touches water, while other trucks can go for a swim or take a dunk without having to be completely stripped. I know I will never find or get a vehicle that is completely maintenance free (it doesn't exist), but was merely looking to upgrade the axles etc to find a solution that will allow me at least take it proper fording without having to spend hours and hours stripping the axles apart every single time I pass a puddle (exageration for the sake of it). I mean if other trucks can do it, there must be a way to either change, upgrade or modify a deuce to at least do the same.

gringeltaube, I will be checking those links shortly and thanks for suggesting

quickfarms, I would primarily be doing clean and dirty fresh, most of the latter then the former. IF and thats a big IF, I do take it for a dunk in the sea I will be washing it down top to bottom since I know from bad experience just how much of a pain salt is, one way or the other.

cranetruck, Those images I take it, are linked to Ford trucks, or does a simular system exist for the Deuce?. But 5-10 heck even 15 mins preparation I can deal with if that means I don't have to eventually take the truck half apart and simply "stick" to a pressure wash and visual (thorough or brief) inspection of the truck.

I am not against taking axles etc apart, for regular inspection etc. But having to do it every time I have had it in water just "sounds" a bit too much and something in my mind screams: "It has to be possible to improve that."

But thanks for the comment and suggestions so far.

 

[swbradley1]

Taking it apart is part of the joy of going to your "bigger, better rallies". Get it stuck in slimy mud or drive it through a river, get home and start disassembling it.




Unless it is a rescue situation I don't drive any of my trucks in deep water or mud and I don't do rescue missions.

 

[Heath_h49008]

Gringletaube beat me to the links. You can pressurize with 2 psi (give or take... 6 feet of water= 1.5 psi) and keep the water out of anything sealed well enough to hold that pressure.

It is not perfect.

But, I suspect with regular fluid/bearing inspections... military level, as in every month/quarter or even each use in some conditions... as well as modern seals, the risk is minimal compared to the benefits of speed during any operation from not doing the complete teardown as soon as you hit land. To put it another way, it still causes damage, they just don't care until it gets back to the shop where the cost is not a concern for anyone but the taxpayers.

But, can you afford the expense and time to take such risks? If so, have the crew on standby back at the barn catch it in the next lube sample.

I suppose if you really wanted to be slick, you could pick up particle and water contamination sensors, then add a water trap, filter and circulation pump for the lube and actively remove any contamination as well as identify problem points if they did occur without tearing anything down. Tap each axle for hose fittings and you get a sealed/pressurized system that can clean and alert.

 

[TehTDK]

Heath, thanks for the comments and the little tidbits of information. I guess I should hit up the local MotorMecs next time I go out on the local base and ask a few questions about our truck. But I don't suspect they are equipped with fording kits per say.

But my main reason for asking was down to experiencing and dunking several military vehicles in murky water up over their axles, and NOT having to tear them apart when we got back to base etc. All we did was pressure wash them and then do a visual inspection from the outside, ie not opening up any brake drums etc and merely parked them. No tearing into wheel cylinders, fixing seals and what not. But at the same junction I also know we are talking 80-90's military vehicles vs something even older, and that there might be difference in how well stuff seals etc and how stuff was made. Was merely wondering if going a bit of way wouldn't basically make up for it, so that you wont suffer potentially leaking wheel cylinders and other issues stemming from the fording.

But I guess there is a point to what you said Heath, since they are actual military vehicles we just made sure there was no griveous or serious issues, and then leave it for the MotorMec's to deal with the rest the next time it goes in for a service etc. Might just be the reasoning, but hence why I "need" and want to talk to them and hear them out . But that suggestion of yours doesn't sound half bad, and is something I will have to look into when/if that time comes. Deuces aren't hanging around on trees here

 

[seano11]

My experience with deep water and mud has been excellent. Never once taken my axle's apart. I check them every once and awhile for water in the oil that's about it. I work along side a company that uses these trucks as service rig platforms and transfer trucks. They get into some really deep stuff. There mechanics will laugh at anyone who says you have to take everything apart every time. It's just not practical well maybe for someone who has nothing better to do all day.

 

[mendo]

The Gama Goat uses air pressure to keep the brakes dry and clean (somewhat) too.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Bottom line is that it's a calculated risk. You may dunk the truck 10 times and take it apart every time and find no water intrusion. On the 11th time is may have water intrusion in one wheel bearing. After a while the bearing fails and you find yourself stranded or worse. If I were creeping around a site or doing pullout work, I wouldn't be overly concerned but when I have to travel a few hundred miles on the highway, I'd want to know things were in order.

 

[cranetruck]

TehTDK, two principle articles have been published in the past in Military vehicles Magazine written by yours truly. They contain references to other articles with related projects such as the crankcase ventilation filter. Check out issues #93 (Oct 2002) and issue #107 (Feb 2005).
My system was basically "homemade" with pressurized axle housings etc. My only problem was really just the wheel bearings, but could be fording ready within minutes as equipped.

 

[TehTDK]

Cranetruck, is those 2 images from one of the magazines you list or?

 

[cranetruck]

Cranetruck, is those 2 images from one of the magazines you list or?

First page of the 2002 magazine article and first two pages of the 2005.
Tidskrifternas framsidor:

 

[TehTDK]

Cranetruck,

Thanks yet again, I will try and see if I can dig them up somewhere . And what you posted second sounds or looks like swedish, and not danish . "Magasinerns forsider" is the proper danish "expression" .

 

[JimmyThompson]

Having read this thread and being an ATV owner... Can't the axle vent be replaced with a barb-fitting and tubing be ran up the back of the cab for all axles and thereby eliminating the water intrusion??? Just a thought.

 

[TehTDK]

Cranetruck, I tried looking for those 2 magazines and can't seem to find them online as PDF's which I wasn't entirely suprised at. But going to the publishing site they 404 when I try to go look at back issues. I mean I am certainly not opposed to buying the 2 issues in question its just hard to find them >.<