"Inventing" a "New Multi-Fuel Engine"

[Keith_J]

Direct injected gasoline engines could be made to run on any fuel that can be pumped and atomized. Probably not waste motor oil but diesel and kerosene.

 

[big block 88]

Easy to find a piston.... call mahl...

 

[Mt_Man]

Glad to see this thread is back going! Been lurking too haha. I recently got (august 2017) a 1997 dodge 5.9 Cummings with ppump and it has been eating what I thow at it so far. It plugged the catalytic converter but other than that is been a champ for 13k now. Not sure wmo cause the plug but makes sense. I should do a dual tank and heaters but have been just cutting with gas like beyondbiodiesel does. Got all the equipment to do just not the time. There is a lot on other sites that people talk about the Cummings 5.9 and the ps 7.3idi. A buddy and I were thinking of putting one together with special cylinders, special head, and no intercooler for a jet boat build. Even thought about machining an aluminum block ($$$) with steel sleeves for weight sensitive projects. Honestly just being a little more picky about what oil you use in it and should be fine. It may not burn as clean as multifuel not sure yet. So far I have run 10-20% gas mixed with piston aircraft oil or Diesel engine oil. I tried waste turbine engine oil and 5% waste jet a, acts like diesel, starts great runs smooth, and low smoke/smell. Probably my favorite fuel so far. Got a few other mixes to try out on her soon. Most of the miles have been long commutes to work.

If you get some pistons made I would be down for a 2 sets of six to try out when I rebuild this motor. These motors are cheap to rebuild vs others.

Ps.
Personal experience might vary

 

[big block 88]

Interesting the blends you all are using. Very cool. Ive never tinkered with fuel mixing in the Cummins trucks other than 2 stroke and some old used oil after a change (i dont centerfuge i just strain).

Alum block 5.9's do exist. But you are correct poring or machining a billet block will be easier and most likely cheaper than a real alum 5.9 that is floating Around

7.3 powerstrokes as well as the old 7.3 idi (non powerstrokes) seem to be pretry happy running mixes as i know an old farmer with both and he does well.

My pick would cummins.


Btw. Cummins.

 

[Mt_Man]

Yep auto correct got me haha good catch

 

[big block 88]

Haha. No worries. Plenty of farmers around here will swear that its called cummings and that ford owns them. So no worries sir.

I am intrigued by the mixing of fuels and your data.

 

[Mt_Man]

It's been fun so far. Haha been thinking of boats, trucks, generators, boilers, and list goes on. I do have a single pass centrifuge. It cleans it nicely. I have a bunch of different sources. So there is some variety.

Not to hijack the tread.

I need to get egt's out in my trucks so I can see how the combustion temps compare between mixes for given conditions. A buddy and I are working(years out) on a raspberry pie computer that could display and log engine data for mechanical trucks with a bunch of sensors. Kinda need to narrow down what parameters would be important to evaluate. What kinda data would you like?

edit: maybe we should start a thread wmo mixing reports

 

[Drizzet]

Thanks for the piston info I will be giving them a call !

 

[Drizzet]

So I have contacted Mahle they said that steel pistons are about two years out for being able to make. They said they might be able to make some new aluminum ones and I might go with that while waiting for the steel. But I need a few dimensions to continue my conversation with them. I need 1 bore diamiter 2 wristpin diamiter 3 width of the connecting rod? Does any pn have that info readily available of a place where I can look it up ?

 

[Drizzet]

So if I was to replace the pistons in the ldt engine to alow for higher etg and maybe put a more durable turbo or turbo cooler In. What other weak spots be that should be looked at ?

 

[coachgeo]

search Elsbett engines. the cats meow of multi fuel light fuel oil (diesel, wmo, wvo, straight vo etc. or any other lite oil) engine.

Also Elsbett's son is carrying on his father's legacy (or grandson?) and sells injectors that automize thicker light oils better. Though aimed at seed/corn oil fuel market

 

[73m819]

The one thing nobody is talking about is that the multifuel from day one in WW2 days when the Germans first introduced it till Nov. 12, 2018 (today) IS A THROW-AWAY ENGINE, It was and is a 100% DIESEL engine DESIGNED to run on DIESEL but has the capability of using battle field collected crap if needed, the idea was to get the mission done and if need be throw in another engine. It is NOT designed to run a mix of crap 100% of the time, no matter how clean the added mix is, there is no way to get the acid or the ultra fine bits of metal out of the add.

 

[coachgeo]

The one thing nobody is talking about is that the multifuel from day one in WW2 days when the Germans first introduced it till Nov. 12, 2018 (today) IS A THROW-AWAY ENGINE, ...

that was a military parameters and a good point to keep in mind if attempting to copy Military's Multifuel engine. That throw away point though was not a parameter the Elsbett design took into account.

 

[Wolfen]

Interesting

 

[RAYZER]

The one thing nobody is talking about is that the multifuel from day one in WW2 days when the Germans first introduced it till Nov. 12, 2018 (today) IS A THROW-AWAY ENGINE, It was and is a 100% DIESEL engine DESIGNED to run on DIESEL but has the capability of using battle field collected crap if needed, the idea was to get the mission done and if need be throw in another engine. It is NOT designed to run a mix of crap 100% of the time, no matter how clean the added mix is, there is no way to get the acid or the ultra fine bits of metal out of the add.

I don't know Ron, the fact that it's called a "multifuel engine" kinda means that it will run on multi fuels.
I know my multifuel loves used motor oil for fuel (cleaned of course ), and run it all the time, sometimes 100% sometimes 50% mixed with diesel.
Have run it hard for 50k miles now without having to throw it away!

Disclaimer:
Blenders permit required to run un taxed fuel on road.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[73m819]

Ray, I get the "throw away" from reading the history and story of the multifuel from it's inception to current use, it was never designed to use a mix day in day out. This engine was designed to run on "battlefield collected crap" if the NEED should arise, I would guess the only filtering if any would be a rag. With modern filtering, the crap would be cleaner crap, there are to much residue in USED oil that can not be removed by filtering.

The name MULTIFUEL has been a major CONFUSING issue for years, the engine is designed as a DIESEL that if needed"CAN" run on "multifules

All I can say is "it is not my truck, not my money, so you all do as you want to do", as for me to me it is not worth the risk, using waste oil may work just fine, but knowing that a waste oil caused failure can happened is not how I treat equipment, there is enough ware and tare with normal use without adding a outside mix.

 

[Greg Schreiber]

All of your older style diesel engines will run multi fuels. The first diesel design ran on coal dust. The key is that it has to be mechanically injected. Common rail computer controlled fuel systems do not use pressure actuated injectors. They use a piezo electronic injector. Instead of opening with pressure they open when current is sent through quartz causing it to contract thus letting fuel pass. The newer common rail systems are super sensitive to contaminates. And the EPA has designed in so many emission control features that even thinking about running used motor or veg oil is an absolute waste of time. One thing to be mindful of is more inhibitive EPA regulations. This new eco diesel I will not run it alone in my deuce as there is no lubricity and running it alone in time will damage your delivery system. Lets just hope the state of California is reigned in by the Trump administration to where they can no longer dictate national emission standards. Or none of us that love our trucks will be able to drive them. Do not even get me started on the DPF and DEF systems......

 

[dmetalmiki]

Well we ran (Run) All the vehicles we own on 'contam.'
Goat
Deuces
5 Tons
Diamond T (6 cyl supercharged two stroke diesel).
F350 Army Airforce Ambulance. (G.M. Motor).
M45 530C.
Most all run with no smoke whatsoever.
Petrol/diesel/ waste Automatic Transmission oil. (Filtered down to 1 micron),
"The only 'Modification' to these engines is....>The addition of Mollyslip<.

 

[Wecsogery]

Something I haven't seen mentioned is that any mechanically injected diesel (probably electronic too) can run on a combination of whatever liquid fuel it is running and a gaseous fuel (propane, natural gas, methane etc.) added to the intake air stream. Basically get to your cruising speed, slowly open the gaseous fuel valve while backing off the liquid fuel to keep the same speed.
Works well on a stationary engine like a generator, too.

 

[DeepSeaTadpole]

What's wrong with the variable propane kits?