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Is a Dana 80 strong enough?

rustystud

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It sounds more like a issue with drivers and mechanics than the trucks . We are running service trucks that are loaded to capacity 24/7 and haven't replaced a single transmisson with over 200k on them. And the F550 dump will leave the stone dock with 25% more load than a deuce and still not be overweight running the same 24000 gvw plate.
Where do you work ? You use the Ford F550 as a dump truck ? As far as the mechanics at work, almost all are ASE certified and a lot like me are Master certified. When I applied there where 600 applicants. Three where hired. I was number one. That is normal for all the rest of the mechanics at the transit agency. Are you a driver ? or a mechanic for your company ?
Also you never answered if your Ford F550 could carry a 10 ton load. Can it ?
 
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porkysplace

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Where do you work ? You use the Ford F550 as a dump truck ? As far as the mechanics at work, almost all are ASE certified and a lot like me are Master certified. When I applied there where 600 applicants. Three where hired. I was number one. That is normal for all the rest of the mechanics at the transit agency. Are you a driver ? or a mechanic for your company ?
Also you never answered if your Ford F550 could carry a 10 ton load. Can it ?
I work doing hi-way construction using our equipment in real world on/off road conditions , not paved city streets with a endless government budget. Been formally trained and certified since 1980 ( but don't have a god complex just real workl experience) . We also run 11 axle Michigan Specials plated at 160,000 ( legal max in michigan without permits) .
As for your last question ,now you want to compare a F550 to a 5Ton ? This thread has been derailes far enough I'm done with it.
 

Section8

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Holy moly!
At ease troop!!
This thread wasn't started to create pissing matches. While all information pertaining to real world and factual detail on capabilities of the differing trucks is great. I am an info junkie, the threat was started to find a modern equivalent I could switch my old axles out for when I comes time.
Since I will be using a newer power plant with more horse power and torque out put I am sure my axles will pack it in eventually. I by No way abuse my equipment!! I tend to baby it more than "work" my stuff.
However as some one stated, if I can still get parts why change them?
Well parts are harder to come by. Especially where I live and very expensive in most cases. Brake shoes are a big one. Just to have mine sent out and relined would end up costing me 120 to 150 bucks a shoe!!! Then what do I do if I need a new drum?? They aren't exactly at my local heavy truck part store.
Yes yes. Then you shouldn't own a duece.... blah blah.
I have it because I can't afford a 100 thousand dollar truck. Bought mine for a grand. Been trying to piece it together on a VERY tight budget just to have a truck that will stand up to my every day work load instead of beating the Heck out of my one ton family truck. Repairs are to frequent and costly on my family vehicle. If I had one that would handle the loads and terrain my family wouldn't have to drive around in run down and out truck. My wife gets embarrassed hen she shows up to teach one of her horse clinics and he truck is banging and clunking and rattling.
I am simply asking all you very knowledgeable people what kind of axles I should try and scavenge for my truck. I title the thread asking about the Dana 80's because I found a sweet deal but turned it down due to the advice already posted about them being to weak.
Hey Ruststud and Porkysplace, could you both telepathically infuse me with some of your guy's knowledge? ?
Might help my build go faster!! LOL!
Seriously though. What axles would you all recommend?
 
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Adams NY
Those two guys are having way too much fun by themselves. What kind of power plant were you planning to use? If you were to use a lighter weight drive train then you might be able to get away with the Dana 80/60 axles.
 

red

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Eagle Mountain/Utah
The rear axle is the easy part. Finding a medium duty box/flatbed truck at a junk yard is not uncommon and will give you a axle with similar strength (think International trucks for example).

A replacement front axle will be difficult to find, and at least double what you paid for the truck. Look for a city/county snow plow truck (medium duty sized) that has rusted apart but has good axles.

Unless you are dead set on swapping axles so you can drive faster, the cost is not worth it.
 

rustystud

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I work doing hi-way construction using our equipment in real world on/off road conditions , not paved city streets with a endless government budget. Been formally trained and certified since 1980 ( but don't have a god complex just real workl experience) . We also run 11 axle Michigan Specials plated at 160,000 ( legal max in michigan without permits) .
As for your last question ,now you want to compare a F550 to a 5Ton ? This thread has been derailes far enough I'm done with it.
Who's talking about 5 tons here ? I was referring to the capability of the deuce. I was asking what you did for your company so I could determine if what you said had any validity. If your where the mechanic who actually maintained these Ford F550's then what you said would carry some weight as they actually would know what fails on these trucks.
This whole argument stems from your love of Fords not a real working knowledge of trucks and there chassis' . Anyone can see just by looking that the deuce is physically more able to haul the weight then the F550. That is what this whole thread was about. I would go with a IHC 1600 series 4X4 myself. That way the parts would be easily available and strong enough to handle the weight. If cost is such a major factor then just stay with the original axles until they actually break. Then worry about replacing them. As far as relining shoes for $150.00 a shoe, who is this guy ? He is totally ripping you off !!! Almost any good brake shop can reline any shoe for $10.00 to $20.00 a shoe ! The stuff comes in rolls ! You cut off what you need, drill some holes (yes you must countersink the holes) and then rivet it to the shoe. I don't remember how many shoes I have made up over the years. You could do it yourself, it's that easy ! As far as the drums go, as long as they have some meat on them get them turned. The reason I am so adamant about this subject of proper differentials is I've seen to many hack-jobs that caused accidents and damage to themselves and others. I still remember this guy bringing in his truck on the end of a hook, wondering why it would not move by itself. The differential was so under rated it actually "bowed" under the weight and pulled the axles out of the side gears ! We all got a good laugh out of it, but it was so unsafe it was scary ! What most people don't understand is that to determine the load limit of a truck you need to start with the "frame", then the "differentials" , then the "brakes" , then the "transmission" , then the "engine" .
Most everyone starts with the engine which is "ass backwards" . I worked at IHC where you could design your truck. We had "Sliders" which where just cabs and frames. You added the differentials, brakes, transmission, engines that you wanted to do the job needed. In the shop we would put them together. That was my first experience with the "Mag-Drill". So I do have some experience with this topic.
In the end you will do what you want, but if you go with smaller axles don't say you where not warned.
 

Section8

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Little Fort, B.C., Canada
I do plan on using my stock axles till they give up. I am looking for modern equivalent axles for the future.
Was thinking GMC Topkick. 4x4. I again only asked about the Dana 80 axles because the were a steal.
If I had a M37 would have grabbed then in a heartbeat.
As far as going faster. ...
I only need to be able to do 60 to 65 mph sustained, as the speed limit is that for most highways I would be on.
Have been looking for the holy grail ring and pinion ratio, 5.43:1 , for my stock axles for a while.
Found some once but the 500 ish a set was steep at the time.
Think that with 1200/20 tires or 385's would get me up to highway speed.
 

rustystud

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Woodinville, Washington
I do plan on using my stock axles till they give up. I am looking for modern equivalent axles for the future.
Was thinking GMC Topkick. 4x4. I again only asked about the Dana 80 axles because the were a steal.
If I had a M37 would have grabbed then in a heartbeat.
As far as going faster. ...
I only need to be able to do 60 to 65 mph sustained, as the speed limit is that for most highways I would be on.
Have been looking for the holy grail ring and pinion ratio, 5.43:1 , for my stock axles for a while.
Found some once but the 500 ish a set was steep at the time.
Think that with 1200/20 tires or 385's would get me up to highway speed.
The GMC "TopKick" 4X4 would be a good choice. I'm just partial to Internationals myself.
 

Section8

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Little Fort, B.C., Canada
International 4x4 would be great!!
Seems they are as rare as hens teeth or a fart in a jar.
Still have lots of time to look unless my stocks blow up on first try.
Most internationals have 2 speed rear ends don't they?
 

rustystud

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Woodinville, Washington
International 4x4 would be great!!
Seems they are as rare as hens teeth or a fart in a jar.
Still have lots of time to look unless my stocks blow up on first try.
Most internationals have 2 speed rear ends don't they?
There are a lot of 4X4 IHC's down here in Washington due to the logging industry. For the most part 2 wheel drive Medium duty IHC's did come with 2 speed differentials.
By the way, do you think I have a "God" complex like porkysplace thinks ? I think I just don't like BS when it comes to trucks. That's just my opinion, but I could be wrong.
 

Section8

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Little Fort, B.C., Canada
Rustystud, could you strip a 4X4 international and roll the chassis across the border for me? I look for any model medium duty trucks and rarely see any internationals.
Usually only a 4x2. Which is just a posi rear end isn't it? Gonna have to research.
Who among us doesn't have a bit of a God complex when talking about an area we have a great deal of experience and knowledge in. I could talk for hours about highway paving/ recycling/ reclaiming, blacksmithing, being a medic, Heck even a few others. Just areas I have had a lot of experience in. Does it mean I have a God complex to some. Maybe. I just chalk it up to, if you want to listen to the answer of your question you ask me then don't get offended by the way it gets delivered. This whole web site was set up for people with common interests to get together and share their knowledge and experiences with military equipment. The added bonuses are when the people can share their added knowledge of differing aspects, such as heavy mechanics like yourself, to bring fresh and new perspectives that another may not think of trying or doing or even know about.
God complex? Bring it on!! Even if it is in relation to putting your socks on! If it can be done better and you know how then a God you may be!
 
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rustystud

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Location
Woodinville, Washington
Rustystud, could you stop a 4X4 international and roll the chassis across the border for me? I look for any model medium duty trucks and rarely see any internationals.
Usually only a 4x2. Which is just a posi rear end isn't it? Gonna have to research.
Who among us doesn't have a bit of a God complex when talking about an area we have a great deal of experience and knowledge in. I could talk for hours about highway paving/ recycling/ reclaiming, blacksmithing, being a medic, Heck even a few others. Just areas I have had a lot of experience in. Does it mean I have a God complex to some. Maybe. I just chalk it up to, if you want to listen to the answer of your question you ask me then don't get offended by the way it gets delivered. This whole web site was set up for people with common interests to get together and share their knowledge and experiences with military equipment. The added bonuses are when the people can share their added knowledge of differing aspects, such as heavy mechanics like yourself, to bring fresh and new perspectives that another may not think of trying or doing or even know about.
God complex? Bring it on!! Even if it is in relation to putting your socks on! If it can be done better and you know how then a God you may be!
Thanks. Your a Medic too ?!?! I have wanted to take some Medic classes just for taking care of my immediate family in an emergency. It is an extremely useful skill to have !
I'll also keep my eyes open for any 4X4 IHC's .
 
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Springfield Or
ruststud does not have a God complex. I remember once that he admitted he was wrong in a post ;). But I suspect God doesn't know much more about heavy trucks. I always enjoy his post.
 

DavidWymore

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I run a '95 Cummins Dodge off road recovery/towing with a 60 in the front and 80 rear. 39" tires, locking diffs, approx 400hp/800tq, weighs 8,000 unloaded. The 80 Rear would probably be sufficient, I have been unable to break mine, and I have had F350s hanging off my hook and in rough terrain and broken my frame, but not the 80. 60 front is another story. Axle shafts would have to be upgraded and then the knuckles/housing wouldn't handle the weight. Pretty sure my front axle is bent, kinda jumped it once...

To me, the answer is M35 axles. Strong and inexpensive. Get a powertrain with a tall OD gear and run bigger tires. I have a set of (4) 12.00-20 michelin XMLs....think they come from Canada
 

Section8

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Little Fort, B.C., Canada
The king machine,
I know of a couple parts trucks and others for sale in bc as well. The problem I am concerned with isn't so much to do with parts trucks. If one of my axles packs it in I don't want to have to buy a whole wreck just to obtain one axle. Of course the adverse is if I just want to buy an axle most guys want what it would cost for a wreck for a pulled axle. I am looking to find axles where I can get more readily available parts for maintaining the axles.

Davidwymore,
Your rig sounds like a pretty adept unit. However my issues pertain to a little more bulk. Your running what is considered over sized tires for your truck at 39 inches. My stock tires are 42 inches and weigh about 200 pounds with rim. If I go to a bigger tire like a 395 I will be pushing 300 pounds a wheel. That's a lots of mass and inertia to try to move then stop. Twisting an axle shaft off on a smaller axle comes to mind. This is also one of my other concerns related to my stock axle. I trust Rustystud' s advice. He has many years of experience related MV,s and other commercial vehicles.
If I were to ever have an axle shaft fail on my stock axles I can no longer buy a replacement or they are a fortune in gold to get one to me.
A little more modern axle would at least offer some more affordability. M35 axles are another option however they are just as difficult to maintain out my way and no gear options
Of course I may as well Just save even more pennies and just buy an older medium duty 4x4 and due a cab swap. Won't be as military but a look a like. Sigh.
 
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DavidWymore

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El Centro, CA
Since we already have Rusty's resume, here's my short version. I don't have as much HD truck experience, but I think more experience "pushing it" with oversize tires. Long time 4x4 breaker of axles, etc., mine and other's. Run a large machine and welding shop where we fix or make any and all kind of broken stuff all day...including heavy trucks. Been around M35's converted to civvy water trucks (own two) and talked to guys that ran them back in the day. They run way overloaded (frames reinforced) and what breaks is spiders and axle shafts. Mostly in the rear, haven't come across front breakage yet. A buddy runs 395s and 6wheels it pretty hard, it chewed up the spiders in the middle axle. I think this is from cresting sharp ledges where all the weight and traction goes to the middle axle. 395s are pushing it for M35 axles, though maybe not in a 4x4 setup. If you want to run 395s "unbreakably", I think you need to go 5ton axles, which are heeeeaaavy. Maybe talk to some of the guys that build rockwells for mud trucks, like Red Barn Customs.

I remembered I once blew the 1410 series (same as M35) driveline yoke off the front of the D80. Cummins, 4lo manual trans with an F350 hanging off the back, got hung up on a VW sized boulder and I didn't get to the clutch in time.


All heavy duty axles have full floating shafts, none of them are going to let the wheels fall off.


D80s and M35 axles have about the same dia shaft, but the steering ujoints, steering knuckles, and housings are much heavier on the rockwells.

Breaking drivetrain parts is a relation between power (torque and/or shock load), weight, and traction. You can put a lot more power to something with bigger tires if you take the weight off. Diesel engines that are used in medium duty trucks are often derated or detuned from the pickup truck config as they pull more weight and will break or prematurely wear powertrain components if turned up.
 

rustystud

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Hey David I did my fair share of crazy stuff when I was young and dumb too ! I still have that picture somewhere with me standing on my truck which is sunk almost out of sight in a large pond. If I was going to use larger tires on my deuce I would go with some "Ouverson" larger axles and side and spyder gears. He makes some "excellent" parts ! You really don't want to add all the weight of 5 ton axles to a deuce. By the time you have reinforced the frame and suspension you might as well have just bought a 5 ton ! I forgot to mention I worked as a metal fabricator for 10 years on making and repairing stuff for the fishing fleet here. So I have also seen my fair share of broken equipment. Fisherman are "crazy" !!! and almost as brutal on equipment as Loggers ! I worked setting "chokers" for a summer to make enough money to go to trade school. Almost lost my hand once !
 
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