Is my EESS fried?

[NJPShorelife]

Finally received my M998. Batteries are sulfated probably, They jumped/started it to load onto the carrier but would not resort. Initially told him the correct way to connect the cables, still didn't have amps to crank over but the wait light would light and go out properly. Time the driver was done playing around with various way to try to jump the vehicle, me being in the driver seat with the switch and he ignoring me, he connected various patterns and appears did damage to the EESS. Wait light eventually would stay on continuously and by the end, would only give a quick flash.
Per gear-report / hmmwv battle wagon, something similar was described but want to check out there how many have had WAIT LIGHT FLASH and found their EESS to be fried?
I have yet to turn the vehicle over as batteries are toast and have a solarator on them. Hopefully in 2 weeks when I'm back at my location they may be repaired. If not some Optima's are in my future with poss. a new EESS. Appreciate your experience.

-N

 

[papakb]

Jersey is plenty warm this time of year so waiting for the glow plugs isn't necessary. Generally if it's over 70 degrees the engine should start on compression alone. I don't advocate the use of starter fluid but a quick shot into the air cleaner should have it fired right up. Now come this Fall that whole picture changes.

After looking at replacing the batteries in my 996 I finally decided on a set of Interstate 24Fs from Costco. My research into the Optimas gave me reason to believe that they are a good choice if your offroading and could turn over because of their spillproof nature but the fact that they do not recover quickly from a deep discharge made me shy away from them. If they discharge much below 10 volts you need a special charger to regenerate them properly and can take hours to come back to life. You also don't want to use a typical auto quick charger because they can damage the battery. Don't get me wrong here, they are good batteries and almost any AGM battery is spillproof but I couldn't justify almost 3 times the price. After years for buying military 6TLs their price and their piss poor warranty has led me to where I will never buy another set of them. $200-250 for a battery with a 6 month warranty doesn't make much sense to anyone other than Uncle Sam who never hesitates to spend your money.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

DONT TOUCH THAT ETHER. Unless you want to replace glow plugs in addition to your box. Sounds to me like the box is shot. Sorry. Been there.

 

[NJPShorelife]

don't touch....What are you referring to?

 

[kcobean]

don't touch....What are you referring to?

He's referring to Ether or starting fluid as suggested by papakb.

Does your truck turn over when you push the lever to run, or will it not crank at all? I had a similar experience when my truck showed up. They had to slave it to get it onto the transport, but it wouldn't start once it got here and we couldn't get it off the truck without starting it. We tried to jump it several different ways including off the transport trucks 24v batteries and it didn't work. I ended up running up to the local Advance Auto and buying a pair of AutoCraft 65 size batteries, which don't fit the tray at all, but they got it started just fine.

 

[jeffy777]

I would not assume anything is broke. First off you need to get the batteries up. Depending on the batteries and their age you can recondition them. I would start there.

The wait light behaves differently as the batteries get run down.

When I got my HMMWV it started, ran and I drove it down the street. Came back and I looked at my lights. Found my drivers side rear turn signal was not working. I took some things apart and it got late so I put stuff together. That weekend I came to start it up the wait light cycled and it did not start. After a few tries the wait light flickered and nothing. I got on one of these forums as was dressed down for not disconnecting the batteries before I touched anything electrical. They said I wrecked everything. That was not true. I bought a 24 volt charger/starter and reconditioned my batteries. It started just fine.

You could however have a grounding issue as well.

And you may have fried the EESS but you need the batteries at peak either way. I would start there. Grounding is easy enough to do and cheap. And if that does not fix it then I would go to EESS.

There is going to be a lot money spent messing with your HMMWV probably. Best to spend it where you need and want to.

Congratulations on the HMMWV!

 

[papakb]

As I stated in my post I don't advocate the use of starting fluid (ether) because most folks don't know how to use it. It is an effective starting aid but all it takes is a quick shot and most people tend to spray it like bug killer. On your electrical issues two things are important here. Either here or on the G503 site or a simple Google search will get you a ton of information on the supplemental grounding system. What it consists of is a wiring harness that can be purchased or built at home that electrically bonds the components of the truck together. The way the HMMWV is constructed makes is susceptible to poor conductivity problems where there aren't good current paths for the electrical circuits. This means that you can have voltage drops through the body as the electricity tries to find it's way back to the batteries. The body grounding point directly in front of the heater controls is one of the worst spots on the vehicle. It tends to loosen up over time with heating and cooling and when you throw in a little corrosion it's a real trouble spot. On my truck I used an inch and a half stainless stud and after cleaning the aluminum body panels down I used star washers on both sides to securely bond them to the body to guarantee good electrical contact. Star washers have multiple contact points for electrical connection and are far superior to regular lock washers in electrical circuits. The rest of the harness makes sure that the alternator, control box, engine, body, and starter are all well connected. This will eliminate a ton of the electrical issues people have faced in their HMMWVs. Lastly, it is important to disconnect the batteries when servicing the control box and the newer push button light switch as they are susceptible to electrostatic discharge because of the components inside them. Almost everything else is safe to work on with the batteries connected. Just a note, when you disconnect the batteries I always recommend disconnecting the negative terminal. That way if your wrench touches metal you don't end up with arcs and sparks. This is also where you want to locate your battery disconnect switch if you install one.

 

[NJPShorelife]

Very happy to have the truck. Time to tinker! In prep, have Kascar grounding harness ready to go as I knew that would be important. Will install, then replace with new group 34 batteries. Worst case, new box. Will upgrade to the S3. Received mixed info on the (correct term?)..TSU. If upgrading S3, need to upgrade TSU too or will old one still function properly?

 

[NJPShorelife]

He's referring to Ether or starting fluid as suggested by papakb.

Does your truck turn over when you push the lever to run, or will it not crank at all? I had a similar experience when my truck showed up. They had to slave it to get it onto the transport, but it wouldn't start once it got here and we couldn't get it off the truck without starting it. We tried to jump it several different ways including off the transport trucks 24v batteries and it didn't work. I ended up running up to the local Advance Auto and buying a pair of AutoCraft 65 size batteries, which don't fit the tray at all, but they got it started just fine.

That is exactly how mine arrived.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Very happy to have the truck. Time to tinker! In prep, have Kascar grounding harness ready to go as I knew that would be important. Will install, then replace with new group 34 batteries. Worst case, new box. Will upgrade to the S3. Received mixed info on the (correct term?)..TSU. If upgrading S3, need to upgrade TSU too or will old one still function properly?

I bought the matched set at Eriks IIRC. Ask Retiredwarhorses, which tsu and box go together, he knows that stuff off the top of his head.

 

[NJPShorelife]

I bought the matched set at Eriks IIRC. Ask Retiredwarhorses, which tsu and box go together, he knows that stuff off the top of his head.

Consulted with tech staff at thosemilitaryguys and they stated they have been successful upgrading to the newer EESS without upgrading TSU, never having a problem. But I did some work on the vehicle this past weekend, just swapped out the batteries with some grp. 34 1000 ampers and installed the Cascara grounding harness and boom, started right up after a few cranks. May still swap out the EESS now researching how the new vs the old work.
Though may have stumble on another issue. The voltmeter showed power 1/16" into the green, ran the lights while on a 10min drive, needle ended up at the yellow/green line. Not a good sign I would think. Tech support at thosemilitaryguys immediately thought failing alternator. Went into a story on poor quality of military alternator's... That being said, I see conflicting info about dual voltage (the ones with the box on top) alternators, special wiring to protect the stat box etc. These would not be drop in's? Just preparing for the worst case scenario.
Appreciate everyone 2 cents if they had a failing and/or replaced their alternator.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

That sure sounds like generator failing, You might want to check the voltage coming out, I believe they are adjustable. I've never been that position myself so I can't help much. That's great it's not fried! AFAIK there are issues when upgrading generators. I can't think of what needs to be done off the top of my head, but it can be found with a search of the site if you go with a higher amperage generator.

 

[kc5mzd]

Try watching the voltmeter closely. With the engine off and the wait light on you should notice a slight bump to the right when the wait light goes off. If after starting it the meter should read slightly more to the right. Sometimes as the batteries charge the needle goes down slightly. If you want you could leave the head lights on for a hour or so with the engine off then you should see the needle move more to the right after it is started. You could also hook a digital voltmeter to the batteries to get a more accurate reading.

 

[NJPShorelife]

Try watching the voltmeter closely. With the engine off and the wait light on you should notice a slight bump to the right when the wait light goes off. If after starting it the meter should read slightly more to the right. Sometimes as the batteries charge the needle goes down slightly. If you want you could leave the head lights on for a hour or so with the engine off then you should see the needle move more to the right after it is started. You could also hook a digital voltmeter to the batteries to get a more accurate reading.

Will give that a try. Appreciate the feedback!
acquiring a voltmeter as I am seeing a strong use for one with this vehicle.
More tools! Love this truck.

 

[NJPShorelife]

Found out that TSU doesn't need to be changed. Even tried to adj the 60amp alternator and had it running at 28.2 Volts out put for a day. Next day was seeing massive spikes in Volt meter when revving. Shut down and will replace the starter box with new one, glow plugs as there was a severe hard start and white smoke (unburnt fuel) and due to the spikes, swap out the alternator. This pretty much covers everything and should get the truck going. Will post before and after video on youtube channel of all three swapped.

 

[kc5mzd]

Voltage fluctuations and spikes are often a sign of a bad diode pack on the alternator and or a bad ground.
Have you tried-
Start the engine and let the batteries charge and engine warm up for 5- 10 min
Turn everything electrical off that you can
Set your volt meter to DC Volts
measure between a convenient good ground on the engine and convenient good ground on the body
Have someone turn everything electrical they can on while you watch the volt meter for a reading.
If you read any volts during this procedure then you have a bad ground. This could be causing or significantly contributing to your problem.
CHECK your BATTERY connections!

 

[papakb]

Remember that the alternator connects to the batteries via the stud on the starter. Take a look and make sure that connection is clean and tight. The feedthru stud in the battery box should also be clean and tight. In the 60 amp alternator regulator failures are very common but usually easily resolved. When the brushes reach end of life you will start to see voltage spikes. This can also happen when the 50 ohm, 50 watt resistor in the regulator blows out. Most people just replace the regulator. This can be done in the vehicle by removing the 6 screws that hold it onto the back of the alternator body and just prying it off. Make sure to blow out all the old carbon dust before you put the new regulator in and put a thin film of grease on the regulator O ring to make it easier to install.

 

[NJPShorelife]

Alternator rebuild based on ....

Remember that the alternator connects to the batteries via the stud on the starter. Take a look and make sure that connection is clean and tight. The feedthru stud in the battery box should also be clean and tight. In the 60 amp alternator regulator failures are very common but usually easily resolved. When the brushes reach end of life you will start to see voltage spikes. This can also happen when the 50 ohm, 50 watt resistor in the regulator blows out. Most people just replace the regulator. This can be done in the vehicle by removing the 6 screws that hold it onto the back of the alternator body and just prying it off. Make sure to blow out all the old carbon dust before you put the new regulator in and put a thin film of grease on the regulator O ring to make it easier to install.

Very good and detailed info!!! I just ordered a new unit but intend on having the old one rebuilt and shelved as a back up. I'll try to document the rebuild and photograph based on what you are describing. Illustrating what actually fails would be a good resource for us. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!